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Old 07-17-2012, 08:59 AM   #21
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GUYS: sorry, but I won't get back to where we left the coach for repairs until after the 24th (we came to TX to cool off.....in our car) . I'll post a full report after learning what was done, and running the unit under southern skies.

FWIW, any competent RV tech "should" be able to take digital amp readings at the A/C unit's electrical service panel WITHOUT removing the unit from the coach. They can then call RVP, report their findings, and compare them with what the amps "should be" ( design parameters ) . IF they determine the freon is low, OR that a compressor is "bad", then that requires them to remove the entire unit (disconnect duct work) and install valves/fittings so an A/C guy can pump the system(s) down and fix the problem / leak. He will then pressure test, create vacuum, and then re-charge to the design specs. I'm told that only after all this has been done will they re-install the unit and connect the rear cap duct work.

I'm pretty sure all this work ain't gonna be cheap!
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:03 AM   #22
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This week I added a roof air on my Journey. It's the 15000 BTU Coleman. The unit cost a little over $800 and it took about $100 in miscellaneous wire & parts. I did the installation. I removed the galley fantastic fan and dug a hole in roof insulation back to a florescent light fixture, then across to the control panel area at the rear of the galley. I had to remove the control panel and a cupboard t at the base of that wall. I was able to run the wire by using a piece of wire through the ceiling insulation. I taped a string to the wire and pulled the string though the insulation parts then taped the Romex wire to the string and was able to pull the Romex through the insulation. I ran the wire down area behind the control panel by using a tape measure & the string. The wire goes down the passenger side of the motorhome. I was able to pass the wire using tape measure & string across in an enclosed area beneath the floor to a storage compartment on the drivers side and then back to the power compartment.

I ended that Romex in the power box with a male plug. I added a 20 amp breaker to the circuit breaker box and ran Romex to the power compartment and ended that with box with female plugs. I can run the roof AC off the generator, or shore power, or run an extension cord from another source to the male plug in the power compartment.

Other thoughts or comments: According to my control panel the unit draws about 15 amps at start up and runs about 12 amps. It seems to circulate the air much better than the basement air. I have not had the opportunity to test it in hot climate but I'm very optimist that it will bring the living area to a comfortable temperature. For making the hole in the Styrofoam insulation I found a rat tail file worked well and for a longer length a piece of 1/4 inch quarter round wood trim. My wife did me the favor of cleaning up all the small pieces of Styrofoam insulation. After she had cleaned the area I turned on the basement air fan and it looked like a snow storm with the small pieces of Styrofoam coming out the ceiling vents. This probably took me 12 to 14 hours not counting time to run to a parts store. The hardest or most tedious part was running the wire from the roof AC unit to the control panel area through the Styrofoam. A neighbor helped me lift the roof AC up onto the roof of the RV. My wife with much smaller hands than mine was able to reach into one area to pull the Romex. IF I ever get in real cold area again I can use the added plug in the power compartment to run a space heater or light to help prevent the pipes from freezing which did happen to me a couple of years ago. If anyone has any questions I'll be happy to ramble on more about this.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:23 AM   #23
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Reading with interest. We have been in those 95+ degree areas and it was not fun. I have a digital infrared temperature reader from Radio Shack. (use it on tires, etc.) and I have stuck it up into the different vents when it was 95+ outside and it read in the low to mid 50 degrees. It just cannot keep up with the "shell" heat of the MH, and the Sun beating through the windows, even though my windows are tinted. On the driver side I have three windows that are very, very large, like about 4 feet wide by 3 feet+ high. I went to a hardware store and purchased a roll of the "Astrofoil" (name eludes me right now) and cut it to fit each 2 foot half of a window-fillng the entire window. My gosh, what a difference that made. DW doesn't like cutting out her view, but she does understand.

I hate to give up my "secret" places, but we have been on the California Coast since the end of may. I have run my AC twice, just to take the "heat" off, then opened the windows for the cool breeze. At this moment in Monterey, CA it is 61 degrees outside (10:20 A.M.) and 72 degrees inside because we have not opened the windows yet.

Happy trails.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by athuddriver
MntDriver

If I were to add the rooftop AC, would that be done at the fan location? Can I also assume that the rooftop AC would have a fan only mode? Did your $800 include installation?
Yes. I removed my Fantastic Fan in the galley and mounted it there. So easy. I ran the Romeo from there, thru one of the roof ducts, down the One Place Center to the breaker box where I too installed a new 20 amp breaker. By the way, I can run all three compressors with my Onan 5500 generator too. And yes, $800 included installation.

Like I have posted before, all my air install pics and other threads in the roof air install are at the Winnebago Forum at RVForum.net. You must be a member to be able to view the pics.

I have said before, the hardest part was running the romex, but that was just time consuming and really not hard at all. Anyone that is halfway handy can do this.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Doug Sage

Me too. My rig is scheduled to go in for service on Thursday. I can't seem to get more than a 10 degree drop in temperature from outside to inside and my unit will freeze up at 90 degree outside temperature with 11% humidity.
You will never get this fixed. I have lots of old posts on here (FrontrangeRVer) about freezing up. The fix was moving the thermistor. Still freezes. It's a lack of airflow, period.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:14 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Wayne M
I went to a hardware store and purchased a roll of the "Astrofoil" (name eludes me right now) and cut it to fit each 2 foot half of a window-fillng the entire window. My gosh, what a difference that made. DW doesn't like cutting out her view, but she does understand.


Happy trails.
Lol. We got tired of living in a cave and now don't worry about covering up our view or worry about where we park or awnings etc. we took care of that!
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #27
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We also tried the silver colored insulated material on out windolws but like said it makes the RV very dark inside. I do like to look outside which you can't do through the insulation.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:59 PM   #28
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By adding a roof AC unit I was concerned with the total amp load going over 30 amp. Even with a power saver roof top unit I thought the load would go over 30 amps. 23-24 amps + 10 amp = 33-34 amps

I have noticed that most 30 amp service panels have the standard 30 amp RV plug. Plus a standard 110 volt 15 amp plug. With each being on a separate breaker. I realized if I run the Roof AC wiring down to the outside power compartment. Then I install a plug and receptacle so I can unplug the roof AC from the RV breaker box. I can then run the roof AC from the extra 110 circuit.

I run a second cord from the 15 amp plug to the roof AC unit only. I can run all 3 AC compressors at the same time. The 30 amp and 15 amp plugs are on different breakers at the my campsite poles.

Then when I have a 50 amp service or on generator I just plug the roof unit back into the cord coming from the main breaker box under the bed.

That is my plan. Waiting for my Coleman Mach 3 power saver AC unit to arrive. Soon I hope. It’s hot!
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by sam-tip
By adding a roof AC unit I was concerned with the total amp load going over 30 amp. Even with a power saver roof top unit I thought the load would go over 30 amps. 23-24 amps + 10 amp = 33-34 amps

I have noticed that most 30 amp service panels have the standard 30 amp RV plug. Plus a standard 110 volt 15 amp plug. With each being on a separate breaker. I realized if I run the Roof AC wiring down to the outside power compartment. Then I install a plug and receptacle so I can unplug the roof AC from the RV breaker box. I can then run the roof AC from the extra 110 circuit.

I run a second cord from the 15 amp plug to the roof AC unit only. I can run all 3 AC compressors at the same time. The 30 amp and 15 amp plugs are on different breakers at the my campsite poles.

Then when I have a 50 amp service or on generator I just plug the roof unit back into the cord coming from the main breaker box under the bed.

That is my plan. Waiting for my Coleman Mach 3 power saver AC unit to arrive. Soon I hope. It’s hot!
Great post Sam-tip! I should have done the same, but rarely stay at 30 amp only sites.

Your 15k roof air will cool your full motorhome faster than running both basement air compressors. Guarantee you!
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #30
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Great post Sam-tip! I should have done the same, but rarely stay at 30 amp only sites.
I like his idea, too. Even if using a 50AMP park supply, would you not agree it would be a good idea to be using an "outside" circuit, rather than pulling the additional load thru the coach wiring?

FWIW, I recently experimented with using one of those portable AC units to augment my inadequate basement unit. I used my 30AMP extension cord from the park pedastal, thru a floor vent, to plug in the extra AC. Seemed to work fine electrically. But, I soon realized that using this type of portable AC was of little help because these units need to exhaust the heat they generate. All the heated air being blown OUT of the coach was being replaced by 100* outside air being drawn INTO the coach thru the furnace and other crevices. MH are NOT sealed units. So, IMO, running a portable AC inside a coach is a "zero-sum" game...it only feels better directly in front of the unit,while the rest of the coach only gets hotter. This experiment made me more certain that a roof unit addition is a much better way to go. Just struggling with the easiest way to get power up there.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sam-tip View Post

I have noticed that most 30 amp service panels have the standard 30 amp RV plug. Plus a standard 110 volt 15 amp plug. With each being on a separate breaker. I realized if I run the Roof AC wiring down to the outside power compartment. Then I install a plug and receptacle so I can unplug the roof AC from the RV breaker box. I can then run the roof AC from the extra 110 circuit.

I run a second cord from the 15 amp plug to the roof AC unit only. I can run all 3 AC compressors at the same time. The 30 amp and 15 amp plugs are on different breakers at the my campsite poles.

Then when I have a 50 amp service or on generator I just plug the roof unit back into the cord coming from the main breaker box under the bed.

That is my plan. Waiting for my Coleman Mach 3 power saver AC unit to arrive. Soon I hope. It’s hot!

That's kind of what I tried to say in post 22
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Old 07-18-2012, 04:14 PM   #32
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I have read about this on the www.rvfourm.net . There seems to be some basement air owners that have added roof a/c. It seems that the b/a won't cool as desired. We have experianced not cooling as we had hoped, but only for a short time. To bad we couldn't add some insulation!!
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #33
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I just returned from a five-day trip to Paradise Valley, NV which is about 40 miles West of Winnemucca, NV. The outside temperature was 104 the first two days. We ran the basement air all day long and during the heat of the day, we were able to cool the coach down to about 81 degrees. We were not too disappointed with that but I agree a roof air would be much more enjoyable. The problem we had is we were only on a 20a service, so we couldn't run anything else when the air was on.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:10 PM   #34
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I added the a Coleman Power Saver 13,500 btu to my 03 Journey 36dl. I was in Maryland the past few days and traveled home yesterday. At he campground it was hot and humid, high 90's. I was able to keep the inside of my motor home to 72 degrees in direct sunlight. Traveled home yesterday, it was 100 degrees. the road pavement had to be much hotter, I ran the basement and roof ac, no dash ac. kept inside at about 78.

My personal advice is, if you camp / travel through hot areas, the roof ac is a must have upgrade. The simple fact is that the basement ac does not put out enough cooling to deal with the heat gain.

As stated, besides ripping out all the rugs, this is the best upgrade I have done.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:15 PM   #35
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One thing to remember is that the filter you use is critical to the proper function of thse units. It's been discussed here a lot that the cheapest "angle hair" style filter is the best for air flow and therefore cooling. Several people have tried the better filters and had trouble when it was hot out. I change them often and our A/C does a great job.

Stay cool,
Dave
What filter do you use and where do you get them? I have a re-usable fiberglass kind which I would like to replace.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:40 PM   #36
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What filter do you use and where do you get them? I have a re-usable fiberglass kind which I would like to replace.
Ace hardware, home depot, lowes.
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:27 PM   #37
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GUYS: sorry, but I won't get back to where we left the coach for repairs until after the 24th (we came to TX to cool off.....in our car) . I'll post a full report after learning what was done, and running the unit under southern skies.
UPDATE: I got a call from the service center this morning. They say they found the problem and got it fixed. No details or cost at this time, but they also repaired two other issues for me.

I'll get the coach this Thursday, set it up and begin running the AC then. I'll provide the promised report on Friday. Hope YOUR repair appointments are going well. Ed
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #38
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UPDATE: I got a call from the service center this morning. They say they found the problem and got it fixed. No details or cost at this time, but they also repaired two other issues for me. ...
My rig goes in tomorrow. I'm interested in what you find. Thanks for keeping us posted.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #39
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UPDATE:....... I'll get the coach this Thursday, set it up and begin running the AC then. I'll provide the promised report on Friday......
Went to PU this AM, as scheduled. Unit was plugged in and AC running when I arrived. Nice and cool inside, but it was "only" about 85*F at the time. After getting info on what was done, and paying their very reasonable bill, I drove it back to CG and got everything re-connected at my FULL SUN site. Unit is running on 50Amp CG service, and blowing cold air out the vents with the T-stat set to 75. So far, it has not cycled off. The outside temp is going to reach mid-90s today and the humidity is above 60% with bright sunshine. I'll get air temp differentials and post more info later, as promised.

The good news is they found the source of the freon leak on system #2, and repaired it. The system was vacuumed and recharged by an "outside" AC tech, and they believe the unit is NOW doing ALL it was designed to do. Yet to be determined is IF this designed capability is sufficent to make this 37F floor plan coach usable in a typical Southern summer. I'm really hoping I don't need to add a roof-top AC to supplement the OE basement unit.
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:05 PM   #40
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.... I drove it back to CG and got everything re-connected at my FULL SUN site. Unit is running on 50Amp CG service, and blowing cold air out the vents with the T-stat set to 75. So far, it has not cycled off. The outside temp is going to reach mid-90s today and the humidity is above 60% with bright sunshine. I'll get air temp differentials and post more info later, as promised.........
After running for several hours, fan on high, with the outside temp ~95*F and high humidity, I get 90*F at the return (filter) location and getting 71 out of the front-most duct outlet and 68 out of the rear-most duct outlet. I'm told that this max differential of 22 degrees is "all you can expect from this unit". The T-stat is set on 65* to insure it won't cycle off, and the T-stat location is displaying 80* as the coach interior temperature. Actually, I'm quite "comfortable" compared to being outside, and a big improvement over the pre-repair performance. Ed
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