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Old 07-06-2010, 08:23 AM   #21
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dancin - monarchman has a 30amp rig/plug. Otherwise, there would be no problem.

monarchman - unplug your rig from the AC power and make sure your inverter will actually invert. It probably will, but double check. On AC power, inverters bypass the inverter and shunt the AC directly to the outlets. Inverters have a lot of built-in protection and probably saved itself.

The rvupgrades store is a great place to buy either brand of common Surge Protectors which will protect you from mis-wired outlets in teh future.

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Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
You plugged the rig into an outlet that was wired for a dryer, air compressor, welder or other 240 volt device
I know what you are trying to say here but I want to make sure everyone understands. Actually, by code, you can't plug a RV30amp (TT–30) plug into an outlet designed for those other appliances. The blades don't match. There is no other plug like an RV30amp (TT–30) plug. By design, you can't plug any stove, dryer, air compressor or any other 30amp plug into an RV 30amp except another RV 30amp plug and vice verse. The prongs won't line up.

HOWEVER, it is very easy (and all too common) to wire a RV 30 amp plug at 240v - because they look like it should be - but that is NOT code. And that is what happened in this case and is your point. A point painfully well taken all too often.

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Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
RV's are 120 volt devices
Actually, every 50amp RV IS a 240v appliance they just might not have a 240v appliance inside. The RV50amp plug (which by the way IS a STANDARD household stove style plug) is typically wired at 240V (but code also allows them to be wired at 120V). Note a 120V wired 50amp plug will not do any harm, you just will not be able to run any 240v on board appliances. My RV has several 240V appliance on board. But make no mistake, EVERY 50AMP RV is a 240V "device". If it wasn't you'd be blowing circuits at every campground you plug in at!
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDude View Post
dancin - monarchman has a 30amp plug. Otherwise, there would be no problem.

monarchman - unplug your rig from the AC power and make sure your inverter will actually invert. It probably will, but double check. On AC power, inverters bypass the inverter and shunt the AC directly to the outlets. Inverters have a lot of built-in protection and probably saved itself.

The rvupgrades store is a great place to buy either brand of common Surge Protectors which will protect you from mis-wired outlets in teh future.



I know what you are trying to say here but I want to make sure everyone understands. Actually, by code, you can't plug a RV30amp (TT–30) plug into an outlet designed for those other appliances. The blades don't match. There is no other plug like an RV30amp (TT–30) plug. By design, you can't plug any stove, dryer, air compressor or any other 30amp plug into an RV 30amp except another RV 30amp plug and vice verse. The prongs won't line up.

HOWEVER, it is very easy (and all too common) to wire a RV 30 amp plug at 240v - because they look like it should be - but that is NOT code. And that is what happened in this case and is your point. A point painfully well taken all too often.



Actually, every 50amp RV IS a 240v appliance they just might not have a 240v appliance inside. The RV50amp plug (which by the way IS a STANDARD household stove style plug) is typically wired at 240V (but code also allows them to be wired at 120V). Note a 120V wired 50amp plug will not do any harm, you just will not be able to run any 240v on board appliances. My RV has several 240V appliance on board. But make no mistake, EVERY 50AMP RV is a 240V "device". If it wasn't you'd be blowing circuits at every campground you plug in at!

You got the point. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. in the case of RV power outlets it just might not be a DUCK.

But far too many professionals think it is a duck and wire it up that way.
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Old 07-06-2010, 06:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DancinCampers View Post
Rod, curious, is your coach wired for 30 or 50 Amp.
30 amp, and everything seems to be fine except the DVD player....that's probably what I smelled frying
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 007";664988][B][URL="http://www.rvupgradestore.com/items_107__rv_surge_protection.html
Here are a few[/URL][/B] for your consideration all good, expensive ones better.
Some SP installs.
I use this one hard wired.

Thanks 007, I WILL be getting one!!
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Old 07-06-2010, 07:22 PM   #25
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FWIW A quick check on some of your equipment can be accomplished with an extension chord. Where you can unplug a 110 volt device use the extension chord to see if it will power up properly. Obviously no help with the inverter. Try a total power down. Disconnect the power and the batteries and the shore power, let it sit for a while then re-power. Not with the BAD SHORE POWER! Sorry for your problems. Other experts may want to correct anything I have stated if there is a problem with my instructions.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by RVDude View Post
dancin - monarchman has a 30amp rig/plug. Otherwise, there would be no problem.
Just being curious, If a 50amp coach is plugged in, wouldn't that put 120V on L1,L2 and neutral. I would think you would get 240V on at least 1 Line/Neutral combination.
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:25 AM   #27
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? ?
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Old 07-07-2010, 08:37 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by TandW View Post
? ?
If you were to plug a 50amp power cord, via 30 to 50 amp adapter, into his mis-wired 30amp receptical.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DancinCampers View Post
Just being curious, If a 50amp coach is plugged in, wouldn't that put 120V on L1,L2 and neutral. I would think you would get 240V on at least 1 Line/Neutral combination.
Curiosity wins! Let's look at the logic... OK sorry for the multiple posts, seems irv2 plays havoc with multiple spaces, even in courier font so I had to use dots instead of spaces..

Double check me guys....

CORRECT Wiring
30 amp plug.......50amp plug
...L1or2....N...........N
.........G...........L1...L2
........................G

A 30amp to 50amp adapter works like this using the above diagrams
30 --> 50

G --> G
N --> N
L1or2 --> feeds both L1 and L2

So, in the miswired 240V 30amp recepticle we would have
this MISWIRED 30amp configuration
...L1......L2
......GorN
(I don't know if G or N was used but typically these are bonded anyway.)

Plug a 30amp-50amp adapter in this MISWIRED 30amp we'd have at the 50amp end of the adapter looking like:
.....L2
L1........L1
....GorN

Did I do these right???? Double check me...

Which to dancin's point, would yield 240 on not one but BOTH of the 50amp adapter legs! Another whopping ooopppss. Good curiosity Dancin! Along with an open neutral or other bad stuff depending on the GorN details.

Of course, ALL of these mis-wired configurations would have been STOPPED by either the Progressive Industries or SurgeGuard devices! Go to www.rvupgrades.com and get one now!

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Old 07-07-2010, 03:19 PM   #30
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Dude, something in me is saying that an RV and electrical novice may have tried to energize his coach without a surge protector. Think about it.
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Old 07-07-2010, 03:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Dude, something in me is saying that an RV and electrical novice may have tried to energize his coach without a surge protector. Think about it.


Well said.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:37 AM   #32
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My mind thought maybe L1 or L2 in coach would yield zero v, but your diagram nixes that. Thanks for the work.

I installed my 50amp Surgeguard within 30 days of buying the coach, as recommended here. In 5 and 1/2 years it continues to work as advertised. I haven't come across a miswired 30amp outlet yet, but it has activated on hi/lo voltage.

My documentation indicates the 50amp version will stop mis-wiring or current to ground conditions from entering the coach, but the 30 amp version will not.

Not sure about the Progressive Industries unit.

My Fluke is always in my toolbox for those times I have doubts about an outlet.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:47 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DancinCampers View Post
My mind thought maybe L1 or L2 in coach would yield zero v, but your diagram nixes that.
Ya know, that's exactly what I thought, er, assumed, at first too! I then worked the diagrams and was equally surprised. You know what they say about "ass.u.me"?

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My (SurgeGuard) documentation indicates the 50amp version will stop mis-wiring or current to ground conditions from entering the coach, but the 30 amp version will not.
Another surprise on the 30amp surgeguard. Thanks for digging into and posting that as well. Yet another assume for me on that one too!
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:14 AM   #34
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I know I can be a little thick sometimes but I really am trying to learn here. Are you guys saying that a 50 amp coach is actually a 220v? So if I used a 30 to 50 pigtail to plug into a 50 amp site I would have the same problem?
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:27 AM   #35
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FWIW The Pigtail is an adapter, it may changes pin assignments. It is designed for RV type of use. Don't confuse it with normal electrical wiring code. The Pigtail works to connect from a properly wired outlet, wired for RV use, not house Dryer Outlet wiring. If you have a 30 Amp RV you can Not use more than 30 amps, period. I am Not an expert. Please chime in if I have made a misstatement.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:28 AM   #36
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Are you guys saying that a 50 amp coach is actually a 220v?
Yes. However you may not have any 220v appliances on board. All 50amp RVs are a 220V device by definition - have to be to use that standard plain Jane 50amp 120/240 plug. Having 220V at the plug does not mean you have to use 220V as the wiring of any 220v plug provides 2 110V circuits. Hence all the confusion.

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So if I used a 30 to 50 pigtail to plug into a 50 amp site I would have the same problem?
NO. The 30-to-50 adapter will simply feed ONLY 120V to the RV. The 30-to-50 adapter feeds half the 220V "wiring" to the RV meaning all the RV gets is 110V. Again, feeding 110V to a 220V appliance (IF you have any 220V appliances on board) just means the appliance will not work. No damage/issue whatsoever.

Note, it is fully CODE to wire these 50amp plugs as 120V ONLY. Many home stoves/appliances use such a configuration. If you happen on one of these 120V 50amp plugs at an RV park or elsewhere, no worries either. Again, feeding 120V to a 220V appliance just means the appliance will not work.

Just use a surge protector and give yourself peace of mind.

NOTE: For these types of discussions 110v 115v, and 120v are all used interchangeably. As is 220v and 240v. Note that 230v can often be a whole different beast and I did not include it in 220v/240v interchange..
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:31 AM   #37
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Thanks RVDude, and every one else who have helped me through this traumatic experience!! I appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share it. There is so much to know about these beasts that sometimes I feel a little overwelmed, but knowing that I can come to these forums and tap into such a wealth of experience makes me more comfortable about the whole deal.
Rod
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