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Old 08-07-2011, 03:32 PM   #1
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Need help in a hurry...

I need help, in somewhat of a hurry. I posted this on another forum too, because we're in a bit of a pickle and really need help. So I hope someone has experienced this issue before...


We have a 2003 Ultimate Freedom that we bought used, last Fall. We are currently on our way to the Winnebago factory for maintenance, as luck would have it, however we are stuck in a campground in LaCrosse, WI, about 150 miles from the factory. Our HWH leveling jacks won't retract.

We arrived on Friday afternoon, and got into our spot just fine. It's level, so I all did was to dump the pressure in the airbag system, and then just run the jacks down to make contact with the ground--I didn't have to raise the coach with the jacks at all really. Everything worked just fine. Today when we were about the leave for Forest City and the factory to make our appointment tomorrow morning, the jacks won't retract! I've tried everything--automatic "store" procedure, manual retraction, different ordering of jack pairs (they only work in pairs), and even running the slides out and back in again, in case their was some sort of safety mechanism preventing retraction. There isn't supposed to be, according to both the HWH and Winnebago manual, but one never knows. To no avail however, as nothing works.

So then I tried the manual retract process in the HSH manual, where you loosen the T-screws on the four jack solenoids, and the springs are supposed to retract the jacks--nope. Not here they don't. In fact, when the solenoids are all open fully, I am still able to EXTEND the jacks and start to lift the coach! Go figure that one...

So we're stuck. I've read the manual(s) twice, but cannot retract the jacks. So I'll have to call Winnebago customer service at 0730 tomorrow, and see if they can offer any suggestions. I can also call HWH after that. My last option is to try to get someone from the sales/service part of the RV park down here after 0900 tomorrow, and see if they can figure this out. But I am perplexed. The things extend, and the airbags *seem* to inflate. I am not 100% sure of this, but it looks like they are up again--and then when I hit "DUMP," the coach starts coming down onto the jacks again. I even tried to open the solenoid relief valves, and then dump the airbags to use the coach weight to drive the jack rams back up...nope. That just pushed them into the gravel/dirt under the pads.

Can anyone offer words of wisdom? I'd surely appreciate it...

Thanks (a million) in advance.

TB
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:07 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcbetka View Post
I need help, in somewhat of a hurry. I posted this on another forum too, because we're in a bit of a pickle and really need help. So I hope someone has experienced this issue before...


We have a 2003 Ultimate Freedom that we bought used, last Fall. We are currently on our way to the Winnebago factory for maintenance, as luck would have it, however we are stuck in a campground in LaCrosse, WI, about 150 miles from the factory. Our HWH leveling jacks won't retract.

We arrived on Friday afternoon, and got into our spot just fine. It's level, so I all did was to dump the pressure in the airbag system, and then just run the jacks down to make contact with the ground--I didn't have to raise the coach with the jacks at all really. Everything worked just fine. Today when we were about the leave for Forest City and the factory to make our appointment tomorrow morning, the jacks won't retract! I've tried everything--automatic "store" procedure, manual retraction, different ordering of jack pairs (they only work in pairs), and even running the slides out and back in again, in case their was some sort of safety mechanism preventing retraction. There isn't supposed to be, according to both the HWH and Winnebago manual, but one never knows. To no avail however, as nothing works.

So then I tried the manual retract process in the HSH manual, where you loosen the T-screws on the four jack solenoids, and the springs are supposed to retract the jacks--nope. Not here they don't. In fact, when the solenoids are all open fully, I am still able to EXTEND the jacks and start to lift the coach! Go figure that one...

So we're stuck. I've read the manual(s) twice, but cannot retract the jacks. So I'll have to call Winnebago customer service at 0730 tomorrow, and see if they can offer any suggestions. I can also call HWH after that. My last option is to try to get someone from the sales/service part of the RV park down here after 0900 tomorrow, and see if they can figure this out. But I am perplexed. The things extend, and the airbags *seem* to inflate. I am not 100% sure of this, but it looks like they are up again--and then when I hit "DUMP," the coach starts coming down onto the jacks again. I even tried to open the solenoid relief valves, and then dump the airbags to use the coach weight to drive the jack rams back up...nope. That just pushed them into the gravel/dirt under the pads.

Can anyone offer words of wisdom? I'd surely appreciate it...

Thanks (a million) in advance.

TB
Have you tried cracking the hydraulic lines and bleeding off the fluid? I experienced that problem on my expedition and that was the only thing that worked.

Once the line was cracked the jacks started retracting. Do it slow, too fast and aside from the mess they could cause injury if your in the way.

I was in Oklahoma, temp was 108 degrees, parking spot was gravel (no more like rocks), fire ants owned it. But I got it done
I was worried that the jack would fall but they retracted and stayed up. still had plenty of fluid in the tank.

All your doing is relieving pressure on the line.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:16 PM   #3
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Are you sure you're opening the solenoids for the jacks and not the slides? Trace one of the lines from the solenoid to a jack to be sure.

Are you opening the T handle(s) enough turns to insure they're open?


Sometimes on mine I have to help the jack retract even with the solenoid opened.

Good Luck.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:09 PM   #4
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I live in east central Wisconsin so I travel through the La Crosse area frequently

1) This business used to be a Winnebago Industries dealer .... they are still listed as a service center on the Winnebago Industries website ...

I think this is the closest Winnebago service center to where you are located ...

COULEE REGION RV CENTER, INC.

W3262 COUNTY ROAD \'B\'
WEST SALEM, WI 54669
(608) 786-2244
(800) 305-5575



2) Do you have emergency road service?






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Old 08-07-2011, 05:12 PM   #5
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I have not yet tried to crack the lines--I'll wait until tomorrow to try that, once I talk to Winnebago.

As far as the solenoids, I am pretty certain that these are for the jacks. There are three smaller solenoids BELOW these; one for each of the three slides we have. Our HWH manual shows 4 jack solenoids right where these are, and these are shown just above the slide solenoids. So the coach is just like the manual in this respect--at least it sure seems that way. Also, while these relief valves were open, I cycled all the slides out, then in again, hoping there was some shuttle valve (or safety valve) that hadn't made properly. But it didn't make any difference.

I turned the handles about 5-6 turns. It was hard at first, but then got quite easy, and then got hard again right at the end. Just the way the manual states. But as for helping the jacks come up, I have no idea how I would do that. I mean, with the solenoid relief valves open, I dumped a bit of air pressure and put the weight right on the jacks. They sunk into the gravel/dirt a bit.

I am afraid I am just going to have to wait until the morning when I can talk to Winnebago and/or HWH; or maybe then even get the RV service people associated with the park to come down and have a look at it.

Thanks for the posts.

TB
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skigramp View Post
I live in east central Wisconsin so I travel through the La Crosse area frequently

1) This business used to be a Winnebago Industries dealer .... they are still listed as a service center on the Winnebago Industries website ...

I think this is the closest Winnebago service center to where you are located ...

COULEE REGION RV CENTER, INC.

W3262 COUNTY ROAD \'B\'
WEST SALEM, WI 54669
(608) 786-2244
(800) 305-5575



2) Do you have emergency road service?



We can certainly call the Winnebago dealer in West Salem tomorrow, if need-be. I don't think they are more than 10-15 miles down the road, so maybe they can help. With any luck we can get this thing moving again tomorrow, and at least get over there in time to drop it off in the afternoon.

Thanks.

TB
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:34 PM   #7
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Do you have the ignition key in the on or accessory position, the slides may work with key in the off position not the jacks. HWH has excellent customer service they can walk you through pretty much any procedure that has to be done just be patient don't take things apart unless you are certain which valves and lines to fool with, call them 1st thing in the am
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:52 PM   #8
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Call HWH as soon as you can, they can walk you through and get you on the road. I had the same problem, it was a stuck shuttle valve, all I had to do was crack one of the fittings and release pressure, retract jacks and was on the way. I had to do this every time I put the jacks down till I replaced the shuttle valve. Ordered another one from HWH and had no more problems. If you need the phone # for HWH let us know, good luck.
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:05 PM   #9
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You shouldn't of turned the handles no more than 4 1/2 turns.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:10 PM   #10
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Call HWH as soon as you can, they can walk you through and get you on the road. I had the same problem, it was a stuck shuttle valve, all I had to do was crack one of the fittings and release pressure, retract jacks and was on the way. I had to do this every time I put the jacks down till I replaced the shuttle valve. Ordered another one from HWH and had no more problems. If you need the phone # for HWH let us know, good luck.

Thanks Billy...I think you're right on. I've got every manual from the HWH site that I can find, and have been pouring over them for some time tonight. To top this all off, I had to send my wife and daughter home with our dog, who is dying of cancer. This leaves me alone and four hours from home with a non-functional coach, in an RV park without alternate transportation.

We had scheduled this Winnebago trip 2-3 months ago, and so we have been planning it. In the mean time, our oldest dog gets diagnosed with cancer. She's been fading fast, but we thought we could get one last trip in with her...as she loves to camp and hang out with the family. Her vet encouraged it, because there's basically nothing else they can do for her. So this afternoon we were all set to depart for Forest City, and this jack issue shut us down. But our girl is fading fast, and we don't expect her to last more than another 24-48 hours or so. So here we are in a strange town, with a dying dog, and me having to be at work in two days. So I sent them 4 hours home, and I will deal with this issue tomorrow--then (hopefully) drive 2.5 hours to drop off the coach, and then find a rental car...only to drive 6 hours back to Green Bay. Talk about stress.

Anyway, I believed all along that it has to be something like your experience--so I am glad to hear you had the same problem. I will call HWH in the morning, and hopefully get back on the road in time to make this all happen tomorrow. Maybe I'll make it back home in time.

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the help.

TB
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:34 PM   #11
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Luckily, your dog only cares about being with her family. I'm sorry you're going through all this at once. Best wishes and a safe journey for all of you.

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:59 PM   #12
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Luckily, your dog only cares about being with her family. I'm sorry you're going through all this at once. Best wishes and a safe journey for all of you.

Jack
Well said. All the best to you all getting through these tough times.

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Old 08-08-2011, 03:58 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by tcbetka View Post
Thanks Billy...I think you're right on. I've got every manual from the HWH site that I can find, and have been pouring over them for some time tonight. To top this all off, I had to send my wife and daughter home with our dog, who is dying of cancer. This leaves me alone and four hours from home with a non-functional coach, in an RV park without alternate transportation.

We had scheduled this Winnebago trip 2-3 months ago, and so we have been planning it. In the mean time, our oldest dog gets diagnosed with cancer. She's been fading fast, but we thought we could get one last trip in with her...as she loves to camp and hang out with the family. Her vet encouraged it, because there's basically nothing else they can do for her. So this afternoon we were all set to depart for Forest City, and this jack issue shut us down. But our girl is fading fast, and we don't expect her to last more than another 24-48 hours or so. So here we are in a strange town, with a dying dog, and me having to be at work in two days. So I sent them 4 hours home, and I will deal with this issue tomorrow--then (hopefully) drive 2.5 hours to drop off the coach, and then find a rental car...only to drive 6 hours back to Green Bay. Talk about stress.

Anyway, I believed all along that it has to be something like your experience--so I am glad to hear you had the same problem. I will call HWH in the morning, and hopefully get back on the road in time to make this all happen tomorrow. Maybe I'll make it back home in time.

Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the help.

TB
i am very sorry about your dog.
on my moho, the parking brake has to be set and the transmission in park for the jacks to work.
i carry an 8' 2x4 and a folding shovel to lever the jack up with the pressure line loosened at the manifold if necessary. i had to do that once when a rock hit my left rear jack and removed both springs and the jack foot pad at crater lake, or. national park. be careful under the moho. do not get crushed.
can you raise the moho with the air suspension enough to get a 2x4 under the jack? once you get all the jacks up and the slides retracted, service the hwh hydraulic tank to full with type ''a'' transmission fluid. cheap stuff will work fine. do not use ford type fluid.
the springs should retract the jacks with the appropriate depressurizing valve loosened. there are 4 valves for the jacks on my moho. my 2 slides have 4 more. just open them all to make sure you have the right one. that is there are 8 valves total on my moho. my slide valves are smaller and look different from the jack valves.
the hwh number is: 800.321.3494. ask for frank or dan. frank would be best. dan is a supervisor. the receptionist will probably ask you for a reference number or such. use your initials. if this doesn't get you on their phone answer que, they will probably have to call you back which will not be of much use in your situation. these are very busy people, especially on monday mornings.
be careful and good luck.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:45 AM   #14
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If you can't get thru to HWH right away call RV Leveling in Elkhart, IN. Speak with Chuck he is the owner. They are a CERTIFIED HWH service center. The number is 1 800 826-6267. They have been in business at this location for 32 years and believe me know the HWH system very well. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:27 AM   #15
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The best advice you have received is to talk to HWH.

It should not have anything to do with the problem, but you said,
Quote:
all did was to dump the pressure in the airbag system, and then just run the jacks down to make contact with the ground--I didn't have to raise the coach with the jacks at all really.
. Why would you not allow the computerized levelers do their job? Hit the "on" button, hit it again to start the process, and let it work. You can work them manually, but why in a "normal" situation? If you did use the automatic feature to start the jacks, then turned tem off manually, not allowing the computer to finish it's cycle shouldn't cause them not to retract, but stranger things have happened!
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:26 AM   #16
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The best advice you have received is to talk to HWH.

It should not have anything to do with the problem, but you said, . Why would you not allow the computerized levelers do their job? Hit the "on" button, hit it again to start the process, and let it work. You can work them manually, but why in a "normal" situation? If you did use the automatic feature to start the jacks, then turned tem off manually, not allowing the computer to finish it's cycle shouldn't cause them not to retract, but stranger things have happened!

Why does it matter? Why WOULD it matter?

HWH, in the design of this system, gave the pilot full authority and capability to do it 100% manually, 100% of the time. In other words, you NEVER have to use the automatic leveling feature. Nowhere in the manual that I've ever seen (and I have been through once or twice in the last couple days) have I ever seen anything to the contrary. So there's your answer right there--that, and I didn't want to let some stupid computer run all the jacks all the way down seeking the perfect solution, only then to give the "excess slope" warning at the end of the process. The site was pretty level, but certainly not perfect. Thus I felt it was simply easier to do it manually.

I don't know about your experience with computers Paul, but as someone who is less than two weeks away from finishing a degree in Computer Science, I feel somewhat qualified to tell you that these things don't always work the way the way they are intended to. Computers, by and large, are stupid. It doesn't matter what it is--they are only interested in algorithms, and they ultimately only speak in binary machine code. There's no interpretation, and there's no "good enough." It's Boolean. And simply put, if the only "correct" way to level the coach is via the automatic leveling feature, then they should not have given us the manual leveling feature. Period.

I did call HWH by the way. It's a stuck shuttle valve. They had me loosen one of the brass plugs on the top of the manifold, and the jacks came up. I did lose a cup or two of hydraulic fluid, but that's not the end of the world--and they are certainly going to lose some more anyway, when they replace the shuttle valve at the factory. I delivered the coach to Winnebago yesterday, without further incident.

TB
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:06 AM   #17
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I had the same problem happen while in CA. this past year, with the same fix. HWH was great and I had my jacks up in less than an hour with HWH on the phone. I had HWH send a new shuttle valve to me in Petaluma, CA. I replaced it myself and did not lose any fluid. A real easy fix. HWH was great!!
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:38 AM   #18
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I hope asking a simple question is not offensive ...I simply wondered why you bought a coach with sophisticated automatic systems that you apparently don't use/trust to work as designed. Most of the time they work fine, although sometimes intelligent user intervention may be required. It is a fact that if you interrupt the automatic stow cycle on your HWH leveling jacks by manually turning the system off rather than letting it shut down on it's own, the jacks may not be totally stowed and can come down during travel enough to trigger the alarm. If interrupting the cycle at one point can cause a problem, it is only logical (if one understands computerized systems!) to suspect that might be possible in other points in the cycle also.
Quote:
I didn't want to let some stupid computer run all the jacks all the way down seeking the perfect solution, only then to give the "excess slope" warning at the end of the process. The site was pretty level, but certainly not perfect. Thus I felt it was simply easier to do it manually.
If the site was pretty level, the HWH system will not "run the jacks all the way down ...only then to give the 'excess slope' warning."

Quote:
I don't know about your experience with computers Paul, but as someone who is less than two weeks away from finishing a degree in Computer Science, I feel somewhat qualified to tell you that these things don't always work the way the way they are intended to.
I have about 30 years experience working with computers, tearing them apart, putting them together, doing some programming, and sometimes having to repair the damage the tunnel vision "educated experts" did with their mandatory "upgrades." Yes, computers are only as good as the programmer, and sometimes they do strange things or even crash, but if you are going to have a computer why not use it to it's maximum advantage? 'Course, it's your choice, automatic or manual. I like to wring all I can out of the equipment I have ... my personal computer goes to bed almost every night smoking and screaming in agony because I get all I can out of it.

Thanks for the solution. That's one to file in memory. I've not heard anyone mention a stuck shuttle valve before.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:56 PM   #19
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Just a little further info, the shuttle valve in my instance, had something broken inside. After I received the replacement, I sent the broken one back to HWH for evaluation. I have not received a report on the cause, perhaps I never will but I know they diagnosed the problem over the phone and I was back on the road quickly.
Thanks, HWH
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:28 AM   #20
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No problem at all Paul--no offense taken whatsoever. I didn't buy the coach because of the HWH automatic leveling system. I bought the coach because it was a Winnebago, and we very much liked its features. I hadn't heard of a shuttle valve sticking before this either, but am quite familiar with it now...LOL!

In all likelihood, the automatic leveling system would have done just fine in this case. However I choose not to use it. I've tried it a couple of times in the past, but it inevitably takes quite a bit of time...and the results aren't always favorable. Usually I have to adjust it manually to get the coach where we want it. Keep in mind that this coach, although in great shape, probably wasn't maintained much since it was new. We've found several instances of that so far, and this is one of the main reasons we took it to the factory for service.

Personally, I think there is something amiss with the entire HWH system on that rig. Certainly it can be the shuttle valve alone, and replacing it will be all that is required. However the factory guys are going to go through the system and make it right. For instance, the T-bar on the left rear jack solenoid was broken off, so I had to turn it with a needle-nose vice-grip, in order to open it. Someone has been on that thing before, and it's obvious that the other solenoid relief valves have been used as well. Given this finding alone, I am convinced that someone has had "issues" with the system before--yet no one has apparently taken the time to troubleshoot and fix it.

Several years ago I helped a friend who bought an aircraft that had very low time on it, in terms of airframe hours. A real "little old lady from Pasadena" type of deal. I can't tell you how many issues we found that should have been taken care of years before, but simply hadn't been. Sometimes low-time doesn't mean few problems--it means just the opposite.

No harm whatsoever though Paul--I appreciate the post. Your years of experience are an invaluable resource to folks like me.



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