From NielV's earlier post: An intermittent power supply or ground can also cause random deploying or retraction of the steps so its always good to make checking the power feed and ground connections part of your trouble shooting of step issues.
I believe that answers my last question. Is there a way of testing it to confirm?
Appears the plunger switch is OK, Double check by actuating the switch and see if the light goes out. If so, my best guess is a loose connection, partially broken wire or the controller (the module mounted under the steps).
By careful of loose clothing or of being directly under the steps while troubleshooting, best to disconnect power. There is enough torque to seriously damage fingers or ?? With the stair in the UP position you can stack wood blocks under the stairs to prevent them from retracting while you are there.
Be careful to preserve (don't damage during disassembly) any labels or potential part identifiers, there are multiple versions of controllers and motors.
Appears the plunger switch is OK, Double check by actuating the switch and see if the light goes out. If so, my best guess is a loose connection, partially broken wire or the controller (the module mounted under the steps).
The light is not working at this time, maybe because the switch is bypassed?
By careful of loose clothing or of being directly under the steps while troubleshooting, best to disconnect power. There is enough torque to seriously damage fingers or ?? With the stair in the UP position you can stack wood blocks under the stairs to prevent them from retracting while you are there.
Good tip on the wood blocks, I was concerned about that. I assume disconnecting the pigtail will immobilize the step?
Be careful to preserve (don't damage during disassembly) any labels or potential part identifiers, there are multiple versions of controllers and motors.
No easy way of checking intermittent power or ground other than installing redundant wires or getting sophisticated electronic test equipment. Because the controller is solid-state an extremely short interruption in power will affect the controller but be undetectable without special equipment.
By installing temporary power and ground wires (redundancy) the functionality (reliability) of existing wires can be evaluated.
The controller "turn on" sequence will read all input sensors without regard to them being correct or incorrect and act accordingly. If the steps are actually retracted and the sensors indicate that they are extended, the controller will try to retract the steps. If you have removed the motor from the step assembly be sure to mark with a chisel point the alignment of the motor gearbox to the mounting plate and don't actuate the steps until the motor is replaced. Also mark the position of the motor drive gear to the gearbox cover.
Make sure the light is functioning 1st. Yes, bypassing the switch would disable the light. If the light is functioning correctly, the plunger switch is exonerated.
If removing the motor, make the alignment marks prior to loosening bolts.
The switch in the photo isn't the reed switch, it's the plunger switch so the magnetic reed switch is still a possible problem. Test it using a small magnet while the plunger switch is shorted (door closed) and the door is actually open, the stair light should be off. The stairs should retract when the magnet is on the reed switch. Removing the magnet from the reed switch should extend the stairs.
Also - I can't see from the photo if the magnet is mounted on the screen door or the exterior door. Do the plunger and the reed switch activate from the same door or can the the screen door rattling around be causing the plunger switch to make and break contact (a mechanical problem, not electrical)?
I seem to be making things more complex, but you can check it out!
Sorry - It is the magnetic reed switch, I haven't seen one in that configuration before, so ignore my comments regarding switch identification. The magnet test should still work.
Make sure the light is functioning 1st. Yes, bypassing the switch would disable the light. If the light is functioning correctly, the plunger switch is exonerated.
The light was working before I bypassed the switch, so I agree that the door contacts seems to be functioning properly.
If removing the motor, make the alignment marks prior to loosening bolts.
I don't plan to remove the motor. I'm just not set up for that kind of undertaking. Same with the testing procedure that you posted earlier. But I do appreciate the explanation!
Sorry - It is the magnetic reed switch, I haven't seen one in that configuration before, so ignore my comments regarding switch identification. The magnet test should still work.
Great info!! I'll give that a try this afternoon. I wish I had tried that first before I bypassed the switch. But I was more concerned with getting the steps retracted so we could get on the road.
Regarding the screen door; It does not come into contact with the plunger switches at all. One side of the switch is mounted on the jamb and the other is located on the door frame edge. The screen door frame is probably two inches away.
I pulled the following information out of my library. I compiled this information from other forum members so all the credit goes to these people.
Fortunately, I have not yet had to repair my Kwikee Steps, but when that time comes I think I will know where to begin.
The OP's particular problem sounds like he might have a bad ground connection or just a dirty 4-wire plug. If not that simple you can't rule out the motor and this...
From what I have read, the ignition override function inside the controller can become faulty. IDK for sure, but if you watch the video (link below) it would appear people have bypassed this ignition override function for "unknown reasons," but those reasons may include the regular step extension and retraction while you drive like you are having. Otherwise, why cut this function out?
I most certainly would try spraying some electrical contact cleaner on your electrical connections second. ...First you need to cut all power to the steps when you work on them and I would triple check that when you turn off the BDS, nothing will activate those steps.
...AND IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE DW NEAR BY TO ACTIVATE THE SWITCH OR CALL 911 IN THE EVENT OF EMERGENCY!
Keep in mind the step motor is just like the Dorman window motors in our car. In fact, some Kwikee Step systems accept Dorman window motor replacements commonly used on Tarsus cars.
==> See my .pdf notes attached for more info and general information I have collected... but again cannot vouch for this information myself. So do verify everything in this document as there are many Kwikee models that uses a variety of different part numbers over 20+ years.
This guy deserves a hand if you ask me for putting this video together:
It's and excellent video on how to remove the steps, drill out the arm rivets… to change to bushings... and you can learn a lot about the electrical components too.
Also, Lippert owns Kwikee and here is their website where you can more information and their troubleshooting manuals and tons of technical information in a 50+ page Operations Manual:
ALWAYS ALWAYS check the connector near the motor/controller. clean the contacts and always make sure the ground is solid - can even add a 2nd ground.
most issues are either connectors, ground OR maybe even worn contacts/brushes on motor - they do wear out !!
the motor brushes are hard and wear long but hard to find - lots of ACE h/w stores will have CARBON brushes of correct size but they wear very quickly, last maybe 1 yr of normal use.
the correct brushes seem to be hard metallic not carbon.
OR the controller is flaky/bad - check ALL connections - can even re-soldier the wires to control board if it seems it is needed.
new steps can go from ~$500-$1200 just step no labor !!!
Note: I read that in 2004 Kwikee changed their controller logic to "IMGL" whatever that means.
I have a 2004 early model Winnebago/Itasca, but I don't know if I have a 2003 Kwikee step or not. Maybe next time I look at my step I will see a part number that identifies which version and step series I have. Apparently, after 2004 Kwikee standardized most parts, but before 2003 there are a number of different motors in use. (I think.)
I also recommend you use some peal-n-stick rubber step pad. Theses things are great and last forever! You will need 3 strips to cover the ends of 2 steps (see picture) and you can sometimes find these at Walmart or HomeDepot. ...No more slips!
Note: Amazon is selling lots of Kwikee step parts.
imnprsd, thanks for all the info, links and video's! I'll go through them tonight or tomorrow morning. The IMGL description in your last post sounds like what I have. I thought they were all like that honestly. Again, great info and I appreciate that you put it all together. I'll report back!
ALWAYS ALWAYS check the connector near the motor/controller. clean the contacts and always make sure the ground is solid - can even add a 2nd ground.
most issues are either connectors, ground OR maybe even worn contacts/brushes on motor - they do wear out !!
Thanks for the tips. I plan to get under the MH tomorrow and will double check all of the connections. I plan to pull the connector apart to clean and seal it.
Sorry - It is the magnetic reed switch, I haven't seen one in that configuration before, so ignore my comments regarding switch identification. The magnet test should still work.
Shedboy, Thanks, but that didn't seem to remedy the problem. I have a few things from other members here to try also. Going back under again for a good cleaning if nothing else. Thanks again!
One of the big things to keep in mind is that the steps are a combo of mechanical and electrical, meaning that the last 10-15 years will have been a time when things may have changed a great deal. That means what worked on steps 10 years ago may be totally useless for what we use now, so getting the right model numbers and manuals may be really important.
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
...And to everyone (myself included) you should think of those steps as a little shark (on a leash) with big teeth! So before you go messing around, be sure to know the range of the leash, so you don't get bit... if you get my drift!
Also, it looks like a rat's nest of wires down there so don't get too discouraged. It helps to clean... degrease... and cut the zip ties you an always replace later. Then you can oil up those rivets and the working arms.
Note: In my coach my HWH reservoir is right above my steps so if you find a lot of oily stuff you might just need to tighten up a few solenoids (1/8 turn... not too tight mind you); and or there are a couple check valves between the solenoid that have a Std #604 O-ring that can crack, and leak a drop to a dime size drip... everywhere in this area and in the step area. So you find oily stuff or grime then you might see if a Solenoid or Check Valve Cap is loose. Note: If you have a leak and do nothing, somewhere down the line you will have more slide and or jack problems... probably when you want to deal with it at the least opportune time.
ADDITIONAL STEP MOTOR TIP: Before you chase down electric shorts or open contacts due to dirty or oxidized pin connections, you might try banging on the motor first. And then if you 2/3 travel goes away or if this solves your random step extensions, then you now you (might) have isolated your problems to the motor and the dynamic brake (brushes) inside. (Remember when you banged on that car door and the window motor started working. Well this is what you are doing when you wrap on that Kwikee/Dorman Step Motor. (Can't hurt!)
Here's a picture of those HWH Check Valve Caps that can leak fluid all over the place and on to the step motors too.
Note: How hard it is to look for oil on top of the HWH reservoir? ...Easy! Just lift the front step lid and take a look.
...The problem is getting a 5/8" wrench or socket on that cap to snug it up. One owner reported they had to remove the front solenoid, but that's really not that much trouble. You just want to make sure it's very clean in this area so dirt does not get into the hydraulic system.
Not to get off topic, but you might want to put this information in your tech library too: Want to know more about a squealing HWH Hydraulic System?
Watch this video about replacing the Check Valve Cap spring and o-ring.
imnprsd, thanks for all the info. I wish there was a Q&A or trouble shooting section to those manuals other than for installation problems. I had every intention to get underneath yesterday while I had the MH out for tires. Unfortunately I ended up with a more important issue that I have asked for help with in another thread regarding what I think is an air bag failure. So I'll defer this until I take the MH out again, which I assume will be to fix the suspension problem.
Linear Mode
