Kwikee Series 32 Steps working in reverse

[odaddyo]

Farco / Birdie2017,


Thanks for your comments. Batteries are fully charged, steps work and move at good speed. The problem is that they were working in reverse. Open the door and the steps retract, close the door and the steps extend. I managed to overcome the problem by cutting the wires to the motor and crossing them. The yellow wire from the controller is now the red wire to the motor and the red wire from the controller is now the yellow wire to the motor. My question is, how did I manage to reverse the polarity and how can I change it back without crossing the wires to the motor? I was hoping that someone might understand these steps enough to answer my question.

[Shedboy]

Did you remove the motor assy with the steps retracted then replace it with the steps extended?



The step controller monitors the motor electrical current and stops the motor for both extended or retracted positions based on the electrical current draw.. The electrical current increases dramatically when the steps hit the mechanical stops in either the extended or retracted position (or lack of lube or your dog got stuck in between the steps). The design was originally intended for automobile power windows. The direction of rotation of the motor is related to the controller by the magnetic door open/closed switch. That's how the controller determines the electrical polarity to drive the motor.



There is a mechanical clutch integral to the gear box housing. It is the three (delrin?) "pucks" inserted in the half moon cutouts in the circumference of the large gear. The clutch is designed to slip after the electrical current draw necessary to stop the motor. You might have noticed a clunk, clunk, clunk noise as the delrin pucks deformed to allow the electrical current to rise to a level where the controller thought that the steps hit a mechanical stop (or that the dog hadn't been crushed yet).


If the answer to the 1st question is yes, the clutch allowed the gear to rotate 180 degrees so the controller thinks the steps are up when the door is closed and the steps are really down. There is no distinction between the extended or retracted mechanical stops. If this is the problem, you need to replace the 3 delrin clutch pucks, they got deformed when the clutch sliped. they're inexpensive.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Shedboy

Did you remove the motor assy with the steps retracted then replace it with the steps extended?



The step controller monitors the motor electrical current and stops the motor for both extended or retracted positions based on the electrical current draw.. The electrical current increases dramatically when the steps hit the mechanical stops in either the extended or retracted position (or lack of lube or your dog got stuck in between the steps). The design was originally intended for automobile power windows. The direction of rotation of the motor is related to the controller by the magnetic door open/closed switch. That's how the controller determines the electrical polarity to drive the motor.

A mechanical problem was my first thought as well but I do not know the mechanics well enough to spot what and where, This idea sounds quite right!

There is a mechanical clutch integral to the gear box housing. It is the three (delrin?) "pucks" inserted in the half moon cutouts in the circumference of the large gear. The clutch is designed to slip after the electrical current draw necessary to stop the motor. You might have noticed a clunk, clunk, clunk noise as the delrin pucks deformed to allow the electrical current to rise to a level where the controller thought that the steps hit a mechanical stop (or that the dog hadn't been crushed yet).


If the answer to the 1st question is yes, the clutch allowed the gear to rotate 180 degrees so the controller thinks the steps are up when the door is closed and the steps are really down. There is no distinction between the extended or retracted mechanical stops. If this is the problem, you need to replace the 3 delrin clutch pucks, they got deformed when the clutch sliped. they're inexpensive.

This sounds very good! My first thought was a mechanical problem of something not placed right but I do not know the mechanics well enough to spot what or where!

[odaddyo]

Shedboy,


Interesting comments, they have me thinking.


I don't think that the delrin pucks are the issue. I did have the motor and gear box assembly apart but I didn't separate the gear box, only rotated the gear 180 to inspect the teeth. I tried removing the pin from the steps and the lever arm while the steps were extended and then re-attached them with the steps retracted. It didn't solve the problem. I also removed the motor then moved the steps to the opposite direction and re-installed the motor. That didn't work either. My quick fix was to cut the motor wires and cross connect them. This has solved the problem, but there must be a better way. This is were your comment about the door switch got me thinking. That switch is a simple open/close circuit. I know that most of these switches can be wired either Normally Open or Normally Closed. I don't recall taking the switch apart, only removing the magnet on the door. If I was to remove the switch side and change the contact, that should also change the polarity by reversing the open/close of the contact. Do you agree?

[Morich]

The door switch is a simple open/close type but what if one were to mount one part 180 degrees from what it was before? Seems it might open when it would not normally be pulled by the magnet? Any chance the poles on the magnet got reversed like maybe put on upside down?
Maybe an easy way to tell if it is easy to unscrew and turn over?

Wire Mp goes to ground KD carries that ground to the step

[Shedboy]

The controller changes the electrical polarity when the door switch is toggled, there is no synchronization with the mechanical position of the steps and polarity. It just goes from one polarity to the other and back again each time the switch is actuated.


The motor controller stops supplying power when the motor current rises sharply i,e, when the door mechanical stops are encountered or there is insufficient lube or the dog is being crushed.


Try this:
1. With the door open and the steps retracted, take the magnet/steel strip off of the door and tape it over the sensor in the door jam, the stairs should extend.
2. remove the controller plug keeping your fingers, hands, shirt, dog out of the way of the stair mechanism.

3. put the magnet/steel strip back on the door
4. reconnect the controller plug keeping your fingers, hands, shirt, dog out of the way of the stair mechanism.
5. close the door the stairs should retract.


RE clutch pucks - Some motor assys have the 3 clutch pucks in the center of the gear. When the clutch actuates, the pucks deform. They also harden with age and may fracture. Pucks that are not round change the amount of force necessary to slip. This can result in safety or reliability issues, the stairs can crush kids or dogs, strip the pinion gear or cause the stairs to partially retract.

[Shedboy]

Some RV step controllers have an emergency override. They use the light circuit on the steps actuated by the push button switches in the door jam to determine if the door is open with the ignition on and the RV in gear.


Under these conditions (ignition on, in gear and door open) the logic assumes that the steps are extended and a signal is sent to the controller to actuate the step motor, resulting in the condition you are observing, steps retracted, door open.


Make sure the ignition is off when troubleshooting...

[Shedboy]

Sorry, terms might be confusing, when I said "step motor" I meant the 12VDC motor that drives the entry step assy, not a digital step motor. Also to clarify, the emergency override circuit is for Motorhomes, a specific configuration of RV's, not travel trailers. Its function is to prevent the steps from being in the extended position when the motorhome is in motion.



Some RVs use two spring loaded contacts in the door jam with a continuous steel strip shorting bar mounted on the door to actuate an entry light that shines on the extended steps. If applicable, clean the shorting bar and contacts with a non-conductive ScotchBrite pad. If you have an entry step light you can use it as an indicator to troubleshoot, since the light is synchronized to the door through the door jam switch.

[odaddyo]

Update on Steps.
After crossing the Red motor wire with the Yellow and the Yellow Motor wire with the Red, the steps were operating fine. We planned a 5 day get away and steps continued to work fine while loading the motorhome over several days. Once on the road we stopped for a travel coffee, when I opened the door to get back in the steps would not extend. I've started carrying a small two step latter by Rubbermaid that works fine in emergencies like this. So I left the steps and enjoyed our time away.


Once back home and the weather cooperating, I got back to the step problems. I checked the fuse panel in the stairwell, 13.5 volts in and out of each step fuse. I checked the chassis connector, Red wire 11.5 volts, Yellow wire 11.5 volts with ignition on, Brown wire 11.5 volts with the door closed, White wire 0 volts but I know that I have problems with that circuit. I then checked the motor connector from the controller, with the door closed got power in one direction but then shuts off after a brief period. Removed the magnet and I got power in the reverse, but it too stopped after a brief period. Everything seems to be checking out, but the steps aren't operating. I have already pulled the pin for the lever arm, so the steps are free from the gearbox. I pulled the motor and placed it on the steps but still wired in. With all the electrical systems connected, I put a magnet to the door switch and the motor started running, then stopped. I removed the magnet and the motor began running in the opposite direction, then stopped. I returned to magnet to the switch and the motor started, I removed the magnet while the motor was still running and it cause the motor to change direction, I put the magnet back and the motor changed direction again. I decided to reinstall the motor to see if being connected to the gearbox would cause the motor to stop working. Motor installed and steps are working again, still had to cross the Red and Yellow wires. I have no idea why the motor stopped working before. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Shedboy]

Are you sure that the motor was not removed with the stairs retracted then re-installed with them extended?

Lippert Industries makes many of the controller/step assy used by Kwikee. Perhaps they can help.

Lippert Care Center



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