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08-01-2013, 08:47 PM
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#1
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 123
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How hot is too hot?
Hi all. I have a 2005 Journey with a 350 Cat and 3000 Allison trans. Today we went up two very steep mountain passes. It was only about 76 degrees outside. I was in second gear at about 1850-1900rpm. My triptek computer said I had 18-20 pounds of boost. The engine got up to 217 degrees. That seems really really warm to me. So what am I doing wrong?? I wasn't on cruise control, I wasn't trying to floor it up the hill, I was going pretty slow. So how hot is too hot?? Thx
__________________
2008 Newmar Dutchstar 4023, 425hp Cummins ISL
SOLD: 2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, 350HP C-7 Cat
Toad: Flat deck car trailer hauling a 1932 ford tudor sedan
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08-01-2013, 09:03 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 57
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Radiator
That's pretty close to the boiling point of a 50/50 antifreeze/water mixture. (225F)
Check your radiator for a build up of 'stuff'. If your slobber tube is where cat put it that's probably your problem.
Search 'degreasing radiator' on this site and you'll find lots on how to do it. Same for relocating slobber tube.
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08-01-2013, 09:05 PM
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#3
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deucenut
Hi all. I have a 2005 Journey with a 350 Cat and 3000 Allison trans. Today we went up two very steep mountain passes. It was only about 76 degrees outside. I was in second gear at about 1850-1900rpm. My triptek computer said I had 18-20 pounds of boost. The engine got up to 217 degrees. That seems really really warm to me. So what am I doing wrong?? I wasn't on cruise control, I wasn't trying to floor it up the hill, I was going pretty slow. So how hot is too hot?? Thx
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Two things:
1. You have a rear radiator, have you given the radiator stack a good cleaning? Should be an annual event as the air passing through from the engine compartment, often laden with oil &dust leaves deposits which cut cooling efficiency.
2. Your engine produces max hp at the governed rpm of 2400. When on a long hard pull you should be up closer to that rpm, so 2200 rpm would be a good target. If you are up at that level and the heat continues to climb then you should drop another gear and back out of the throttle. If your radiator is clean, you will reach a point where the temps stabilize with the rpm up over 2200.
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Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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08-02-2013, 01:15 PM
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#4
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 962
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1. give the radiator stack a good cleaning
2. Your engine should be running close to 2200 rpm on long pulls
I agree with these recommendations.
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08-02-2013, 01:46 PM
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#5
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 123
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Sorry for the ignorance.... ...but what is a radiator stack?
__________________
2008 Newmar Dutchstar 4023, 425hp Cummins ISL
SOLD: 2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, 350HP C-7 Cat
Toad: Flat deck car trailer hauling a 1932 ford tudor sedan
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08-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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#6
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Anacortes, WA (Stick & Brick)
Posts: 68
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The boiling point goes up with pressure, so the 50/50 mix in the radiator probably won't boil (i.e. start to make vapor bubbles) until 235 degrees or so.
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Frank Damp -Anacortes, WA,(DW- Eileen)
ex-pat Brits (1968) and ex-RVers.
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08-02-2013, 02:12 PM
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#7
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Winnebago Watcher
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 3
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Water boils at 212 pressure cap on your rad increases the boiling point by 3 degrees per LB of pressure 7 lb cap boiling point increased by 21 degrees so what ever cap you have and if it is working right see what the real boiling point is for your unit and stay under it Plus most diesel engines the thermostat is set at 195 or so that is not far from 205 anyway
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Paul & Megan 2007 Neptune XL 36 PDQ REK Bilsteins, KarKaddy, mini cooper, W/ Bear and Sedona
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08-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddypaws
That's pretty close to the boiling point of a 50/50 antifreeze/water mixture. (225F).
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That boiling point of a 50/50 ethylene glycol/water mixture is at atmospheric pressure. In a cooling system with a 15 psig radiator cap, the boiling point is elevated to 265 degrees F.
Rusty
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08-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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#9
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 173
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We lost the fan clutch on our unit and I became real familiar with operating temperatures. 217 isn't terrible. I didn't start to worry until it got over 220. If it's a long enough hill we saw that, too. Ambient temperature didn't seem to have as much effect as I thought it would, though.
According to FCC, I should be cleaning the radiator every year. According to the Freightliner dealer that replaced the fan clutch, if the radiator was dirty enough to affect engine performance, he would pull it and dip it. He didn't see how spraying soap and water on it would matter. Just sayin'...
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Michael
2017 Allegro Bus 45OPP, Cummins ISL 450, Allison 3000
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08-02-2013, 08:26 PM
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#10
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 2,103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deucenut
Sorry for the ignorance.... ...but what is a radiator stack?
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The entire radiator, charge-air cooler, dash-air conditioner condenser, etc are all sandwiched together to form a stack. That's my understanding anyway. If I'm wrong, at least someone will come along and educate both of us.
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2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA. "We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." Abraham Lincoln
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08-02-2013, 09:27 PM
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#11
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Waynesboro,PA USA
Posts: 307
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When ours overheated, we cleaned it ourselves. Lots of Simple Green sprayed on the rad, hard to get, to and lots of water. We also extended the slobber tube so it wouldn't spray oil on the rad. Do a search as suggested. Also we saw a rad being cleaned at the factory and they did not take it off, they sprayed it with degreaser and rinsed with lots of water.
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Downsized Winnebago C, 24 V /08 Saturn Vue/2014 Town and Country Van/03 Goldwing (Big Red)Recently triked Roadsmith kit
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08-02-2013, 11:59 PM
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#12
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN
The entire radiator, charge-air cooler, dash-air conditioner condenser, etc are all sandwiched together to form a stack. That's my understanding anyway. If I'm wrong, at least someone will come along and educate both of us.
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At least on the rear-radiator Journey (as on my Vectra) I would expect that the dash AC condenser is on the left rear corner of the coach. To the rear of the engine you'll find the charge-air-cooler (CAC, also called the intercooler or aftercooler) and then, an inch or so behind that, the radiator. Air blown by the fan goes through the CAC (which cools the air exiting the turbo charger headed to the engine) and then the radiator (which cools the engine coolant).
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Chris Beierl
2005 Winnebago Vectra 36RD
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08-03-2013, 01:43 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Land Of Oz RVM17
Posts: 30
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On most Cat engines, the fan will not come on until 216 degrees. The dash air may kick it on sooner due to the high gas pressure when you are at low speeds, idling and such. The engine thermostat will open at about 194 degrees and close at 184. All temps above 194 the thermostat is wide open, then as temps build up to the 216-217 range the fan will kick on. These engines are designed to run this hot, as that's why the fan will not kick on sooner. I have three C15-625 HP cat engines in semi trucks and this is how they function.
The engine fans rarely kick in at highway speeds, unless you have high ambient temps, long steep grades which make the engines pull hard and raise the coolant temps. Rear radiator RVs may kick on the fans more often due to a more restrictive air flow of the rear type radiator. When we had a Smart cat which had a rear engine, the smart Mercedes engineers mounted the stack in front of the car, stack being radiator, AC condenser and engine fans and the coolant and freon lines ran back to the engine at the rear of the car. The back of a vehicle is not a good place for a radiator, from a engineering standpoint. That's why a side radiator is better then a rear, but not as efficient as a front radiator. 217 degrees is not hot at all for a Cat engine and nothing to worry about. After the hard pull is over temps will come down.
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08-03-2013, 08:59 AM
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#14
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Winnebago Master
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSCRUDE
On most Cat engines, the fan will not come on until 216 degrees. The dash air may kick it on sooner due to the high gas pressure when you are at low speeds, idling and such. The engine thermostat will open at about 194 degrees and close at 184. All temps above 194 the thermostat is wide open, then as temps build up to the 216-217 range the fan will kick on. These engines are designed to run this hot, as that's why the fan will not kick on sooner. I have three C15-625 HP cat engines in semi trucks and this is how they function.
The engine fans rarely kick in at highway speeds, unless you have high ambient temps, long steep grades which make the engines pull hard and raise the coolant temps. Rear radiator RVs may kick on the fans more often due to a more restrictive air flow of the rear type radiator. When we had a Smart cat which had a rear engine, the smart Mercedes engineers mounted the stack in front of the car, stack being radiator, AC condenser and engine fans and the coolant and freon lines ran back to the engine at the rear of the car. The back of a vehicle is not a good place for a radiator, from a engineering standpoint. That's why a side radiator is better then a rear, but not as efficient as a front radiator. 217 degrees is not hot at all for a Cat engine and nothing to worry about. After the hard pull is over temps will come down.
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The radiator fan on the C7 in the OP's coach is belt driven without a clutch--the fan is always on.
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Chris Beierl
2005 Winnebago Vectra 36RD
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08-03-2013, 10:30 AM
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#15
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Winnebago Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 123
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So if it reached 220(for instance) should I be pulling over, putting the tranny in neutral and bringing the idle up to 1200-1500rpm to cool the engine down? I don't want to overheat the engine.
Aldo, I checked the radiator reservoir and it appears to be down below the "cold min" level. I'm hesitant to add anything because I don't know what's in the rad right now. I'm thinking I should just add a little bit of straight water and then when we get home, I'll do a coolant flush.
__________________
2008 Newmar Dutchstar 4023, 425hp Cummins ISL
SOLD: 2005 Winnebago Journey 39K, 350HP C-7 Cat
Toad: Flat deck car trailer hauling a 1932 ford tudor sedan
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08-05-2013, 07:40 AM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 57
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Water
Distilled water would be a good choice.
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08-06-2013, 06:28 PM
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#17
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 261
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Duecenut, had the same problem with our 39K. You have a unique access to the top of the fan shroud thru the lift up panel in rear closet on the side to the curb side. You can search back posts on me and other who have cut an access hole in the fan shroud and this allows you to get down in there to the "front" side of the radiator and the CAC. I use a garden sprayer with the purple Simple Green and hot water. I also drag a garden hose in the side window with a spray nozzle and hook it up to my water heater at the house and rinse it with hot water. You would be amazed at how much crud comes out there. you will never get the radiator or CAC clean by just spraying the "rear" side of the radiator. The CAC sits in front of the radiator and it is about 2/3rds the size of the radiator. So, if the CAC is plugged with crud(cuz it gets all the crud first from the fan) then the air can't get thru it to the radiator. If you would like more info on how I did my access hole cutout, PM me and I'll explain.
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Barry & Sue Miller("extended" RVer's, 6 mos + per/year) combined trips.
04 Journey 39K, C-7, 330 hp, towing:19 GMC Canyon 4WD or 2013 Ford Edge AWD, Aero 5050XL, ReadyBrake.
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08-11-2013, 10:53 AM
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#18
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Winnie-Wise
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 352
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I had the same problem on a Fleetwood Discovery a while back. I had just bought it in So. Carolina and was heading back to Reno, NV when I had overheating problems. I found that driving up grades very slowly with my flashers on was one way to keep it from overheating. I also would pull over and stop on occasions where the red light would come on.
When I finally got home, I did the cleaning with Simple Green (several times) and made a capture-bottle for my slobber-tube. Everything was OK from that point on.
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06' Itasca Meridian 36g with CAT 350
2011 Jeep Wrangler 4-door
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