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Old 09-06-2013, 04:21 AM   #21
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As far as I know the EMS is a small board located behind the protective panel on the service center. This is where it was located in my '05 Vectra. (I had this fail and had to replace it.) I guess it would still be there in these newer systems.

Each circuit is connected to the board. I think each breaker output is wired to an assigned slot on the board and the output of the slot is where the wire to the circuit goes.

Is this correct Dan?
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:35 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by DancinCampers View Post
I think you should be able to remove the ac low voltage control wire from your ems pc board relay, wire nut together and then it should run.
There are probably a couple of ways to by-pass or short-circuit the PCS's shedding of air-conditioners. [The installation guide shows 4 different wiring possibility and depending on Winnebago's implementation (and not knowing which one they chose) I didn't want to guess or investigate based on a one-day turn around on the needed parts.] The air conditioner relay wires are on the back side of the PCS/circuit breaker panel, so access is a little more troublesome. But yes, you are correct, the wires are there and can be accessed under the bed.

That being said I probably could have just cut the 12v wire to the entire PCS system and by-passed it entirely. I couldn't find a fuse for it. That wouldn't have been to hard to fix.

We don't have the fireplace so we have a spare slot in the circuit breaker panel. Just in case the parts didn't come in, I purchase a 20 amp breaker at Lowes (same Cuttler-Hammer part number; <$5) and a length of 20amp capable copper wire and was ready to just move a 2nd air conditioner to the other 50 amp side that was working.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:46 AM   #23
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All back and running at full amperage.

The new PCM controller did come in on Wednesday (~$110 expedited handling and over-night delivery) and we had it installed yesterday.

The original description of the repair plan was to replace the entire/complete circuit breaker panel including the controller. I think Winnebago confirmed that the controller was all that was needed. [and much easier to replace; i.e. maybe 13 wires, not everything in the entire circuit breaker panel, >100 wires; thank god.]

We are back to 100% (and amps).
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:51 AM   #24
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The new PCM controller did come in on Wednesday (~$110 expedited handling and over-night delivery) and we had it installed yesterday.
We only paid the expedite fee(s) and the extended warranty deductible, so I don't have a break down of the total/real cost.

I think they said the controller was ~$329 and then the labor of a couple hours.

Could have been worse!
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:36 AM   #25
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Great news and glad you are back in business.

When the PMS is working correctly it works great. I like the new feature of being able to see it L1/L2 current and voltage. The old EMS in my Vectra did not afford this view.

Happy trails again!

Rick
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #26
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Jeffrey,
Very glad you up and running. Good idea about using another circuit for the a/c. Just were is the controller located?? Under the bed?
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:15 PM   #27
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Jeffrey,
Very glad you up and running. Good idea about using another circuit for the a/c. Just were is the controller located?? Under the bed?
Our circuit breaker panel is under the bed and the Power Control System makes up the left hand side, under the removable cover. 4 of the shed able relays are on the front. 2 of the wires are use to detect L1 and L2 voltage. (So if you turn off those breakers, the appropriate leg will report 0 volts; for us it is the washer and dryer, even though the rest of the line/breakers do have voltage.)

The air conditioner signal wires (connector) are on the back side of the circuit breaker panel along with connectors for the PCS remote panel, the magnum charger and inverter. That has to be accessed from under the bed.

[Going offline for a week. Be back then.]

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Old 09-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #28
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Thanks Jeffrey. Have a great week.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:55 AM   #29
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Hi Dennis,
Sorry for late reply, we are enjoying Disney World with 4 yr old granddaughter.

I don't think you need to bypass entire ems board, but if you took the circuit (IE ac # 2) off the relay, the ems would think it was shedding, but really wouldn't be.

It would be like before ems was invented. It would be up to us to monitor amps.

I haven't looked into our new setup, but on our previous Adventurer there were 4 relays on the board, one of them controlled the second compressor by opening the 12volt y2 control wire.

Our current system controls 6 items, as indicated by the menu.

I believe all the relays are normally closed, so if you cut power to the pc board, then power should be available to all the items.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #30
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Dan,
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. You could either unplug the low voltage on the back of the circuit board for the specific a/c, or unplug the low voltage transformer at the back of the circuit board (under the bed) and they would all work. Wonderful temporary solution. Thanks.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:49 PM   #31
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Followup....

We got back from our trip and everything was working fine... for a few days. Then the water heater circuit breaker tripped.

This blew out our brand new power control system board so we were right back to where we were before we had the system replaced.

Note to self: make sure to fix the root of the problem before fixing things damaged as the results of an underlying problem.

Well at least we now knew what circuit was the issue.

The water heater circuit breaker had tripped in the past - very, very randomly. Resetting it always seem to fix the immediate issue but we never really knew why it did that. And that never seemed to be an issue for the power control system.

After discussing the water heater circuit with the local RV service center, we decided to replace the water heater element and the water heater circuit breaker just to be sure. In replacing the water heater element we learn that we had a very small water leak at the hot water heater and presumably water was dripping on wires behind the hot water heater and that, we thought, was the smoking gun.

But to be sure we didn't replaced the power monitor system just yet.

After returning home, we turned on the water heater and within an hour the water heater circuit breaker tripped again! We turned off the water heater and 20 minutes later it tripped again! WTF!

I did some research on the Winnebago wiring and as it turns out the water heater circuit also has a wire that tells our Onan that it doesn't need to auto-start because there is 120 volts available. [So if I switch off the water heater at the circuit breaker could the generator auto-start?]

So I moved the wire for the generator's 120 volt auto-sense to the clothes washer's circuit to determine whether the problem was the water heater or this auto sensor circuit and whichever circuit breaker trips next should tell us where the problem is.

[In the meantime I did clip the power monitoring system's 12 volt power wire so we could manually manage all our current needs.]

2 weeks go by and no circuit breakers trip. Plenty of hot water. So I moved the wires back to there normal positions.

Nothing.

To move forward, I decided to poke around the back of the water heater. Some of the water lines, propane lines and electrical were touching so I moved a couple to reduce chaffing and "POP"!!! Then burning smell...

The water heater circuit breaker tripped and the 50 amp breakers at the pedestal tripped.

Yes, I reset everything and yes we still had more hot water. I did then turn off the water heater and called for an appointment for service. When we arrived I asked them to look for a scorch mark inside the water heater electrical cover behind the water heater.

Bingo!

I am attaching a photo of the wires that were removed. It appears to me this is where the water heater circuit breaker issues were all along. How this was not noticed when the water heater element was replaced I do not know.

We will still wait a few weeks to replace the power control system control board if no circuit breakers trip. Hopefully that will be the end of this saga.

Stay tuned....

Isn't full timing fun!
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Old 10-11-2013, 04:16 PM   #32
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Thank you so much for the feedback. Looks like the hot wire was nicked when the outer cover was removed and overtime and with a little moisture it shorted to the bare ground wire.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:33 AM   #33
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Now you know why I try to do my own troubleshooting and avoid RV service centers. They should have found that early on. What I can't figure is why the 12V module failed? And, why did the 50A breaker trip? Your water heater is on a 20A breaker. The only thing I can think of is that other heavy loads were on at that moment.

I carry a clamp on amp meter. Here is a better on than I have and I am going to get this one in the near future: Auto ranging AC/DC Digital Clamp Meter - Amazon.com

This type of meter is a must for a full-timer who does their own repairs and maintenance when possible. The burnt wires would have been drawing current when the heater was satisfied and this meter would have seen it when used properly.

Hope your electrical troubles are now solved.
Rick
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