Freightliner Issue - Engine Panel and guages

Kewlbreeze · 05-27-2021, 05:23 PM

Hi guys,

Finally got my 2007 Itasca Meridian SG out of the shop - after 6 weeks they tell me they do not wanna fix the slide cause they do not have a HWH slide tech- gee whiz...So we have a date with a different outfit....

Today we had an interesting thing happen - the engine started just fine - the air pressure gauges worked just fine - but no other gauge would work on the panel.

So I killed the engine - and then started it again - same thing. Just two days ago everything worked well.

So I looked at the fuses in the front of the RV - could not find the issue.

So I am stumped.

Anyone have this issue come up? Ideas? It will be going to Freightliner in a few weeks to have the 50,000 service done so they should be able to fix it. But I was hoping it would be something simple.....

Looking for some wisdom.

Thanks
Dennis
Planet Houston

Lv2Roam2 · 05-28-2021, 05:43 AM

Call the 24/7 Freightliner Help Line - have your VIN # in hand. 1-800-FTL-Help

Let us know what results...

Kewlbreeze · 05-28-2021, 08:51 AM

Lv2Roam2,

Thanks for that - I did not even think to call them....so I did and they explained I should open the panel and look to see if the wires connecting the gages are all white in color (no this is not Critical Race Theory gone nuts)....if so, replace them with new wires. The new wires part numbers are:

Speedometer: A06-69135-012

Tachometer: A06-69136-012

Voltmeter: A06-69136-012

Fuel: A06-69136-012

Oil Pressure: A06-69136-012

Coolant Temperature: A06-69136-012

Air Pressure: POL 028A274098004

The air pressures were the only ones still working as they are not Daisey chained to the others.

So if this happens to you - you now know what to do.

BTW - the new wires will all be black.....proving that Freightliner is woke

SAVE AMERICA!!!!

Dennis
Planet Houston

Kewlbreeze · 05-30-2021, 03:11 PM

Update:

So I took the back of the instrument panel off and all the wires were all black.....so another call to Freightliner and they had me isolate the gauges to see if one was bad. No luck - so another call to Freightliner and they told me the bad news ....- the next thing to check is the Panel light panel. It costs $778... and if that is not the issue the ECM (many dollars) is the issue....arrrrgh

Dennis
Planet Houston

Kewlbreeze · 06-01-2021, 05:30 AM

UPDATE:

To quote Forrest Gump from the first sentence in the book (if you have not read the book then you have missed one of the funniest books you will ever read):

"Being born stupid an't no box of chocolates!"

It seems that I have been a too quick on the trigger - both to start the engine and to diagnose the problem:

Simply put - I cranked the engine before the panel light was done doing its own thing.....in other words - let the light panel go thru its full system check....then crank the engine

And then I forgot the first rule of fixing a problem - ALWAYS START WITH THE SIMPIEST THING FIRST!

So I write this missive in hopes of saving some other moron the agony I went thru.....

As they say in Arkansas: You gotta be smarter than a watermelon to eat it!!!

Please learn from my mistakes.

Dennis
Planet Houston

Dennis4809 · 06-07-2021, 09:22 AM

We bought our MH (Freightliner chassis) in FL in Feb 2013. A month or so later, while driving I realized that the gauge displays had frozen. Speed and rpm didn’t vary as I slowed down. Oil pressure stayed locked, etc. pulled off, went through a couple start stop cycles with no change. Then opened the left front electrical compartment. With my wife in the drivers seat, engine running, I started flexing the large wire bundles heading to the drivers area. A minute or so later, dw told me everything started working. Been working for the last 8 years with no further issues. Must have been a loose or tarnished pin.

Good luck,

R2D2 · 06-09-2021, 09:00 PM

Similar situation on two occasions in the last two years. In 2019 while traveling we lost all gauges after fueling. Returned to the campground we had just left and tried to figure out what was wrong. A very nice guy that has an RV repair shop saw we were having issues and offered to help. We went through every harness, connector, fuse and breaker we could find. The last resort was to unplug the shore power and turn off the coach and chassis battery switches one at a time. When I flipped the chassis switch back on, everything came back online. We assume that reset the onboard computer.

After another 4,000 miles, we experienced the same thing. This time, I unplugged the shore power, but did not turn off the battery switches. We were moving to another site within the park and I figured I'd work on it after we set up in the new space. We had to wait for the new space to be vacated so I turned off the engine off. When I restarted to move into the new space, all the gauges were working.

Two different situations and no obvious explanation's.

Kewlbreeze · 06-14-2021, 08:21 AM

Thanks guys - glad to hear I am not the only one where strange things happen!!

Dennis
Planet Houston

imnprsd · 06-26-2021, 06:39 PM

My 2004 Itasca Horizon uses a similar method of displaying gauge data. It is not quite the same as your 2006 Meridian, but very close. For example, you don't have a VDC. Your later model came with a MMDC located in your front dash, which might be supplying both power and ground to your Message Center.

Notice how the Message Center receives data on the J1587 Data Bus. And notice where the power and ground pins are. These should be your first level of focus the next time you are chasing down this problem and fix.

...And since all your gauges are going down, you should examine the ground wires in particular.

Note: Sometimes it's easier to add an additional ground wire than it it to find the bad-ground-wire point of "no contact."

On the other hand, if you have a bad-ground or bad-power wire., and the break or poor connection (more likely) is is in the message center connector, you should be able to wiggle it to see if your gauges come back to life.

Also, you should check your battery ground to the chassis which is probably very rusty!!! I would do this first! ...In fact, I haven't cleaned my battery ground is over 8 years so I think I will do that now that we are on the subject.

Just get under your basement ac and follow your engine battery ground wires to where they connect with your chassis bar. And I would also clean your inverter 300A fuse while you are at it (to the house battery).

FIRE UP · 06-27-2021, 03:12 PM

Imnprsd,
I'm kind-a wondering here. By any chance, do you know when your chassis was produced? You were answering this person that he has a MMDC and you maybe having a VDC? You see, the reason I'm asking all this is because, my production date of our chassis, on our '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP and Freightliner XC *Evolution* chassis was produced in Oct of '03. Then Winnebago and Itasca built the coach in Dec of '03. The coach was first put into service, Jan of '04.

Our chassis was on the assembly line at Freightliner, when the first C-7's were being installed. There were a few, very few, with the 3126 installed after mine went through. But, mine was also was fitted with an MMDC, not a VDC. Is your chassis fitted with a VDC or an MMDC? It would depend on when your chassis was being manufactured and fitted with equipment. On our Horizon, the MMDC is located in the lower left front compartment, along with a few thousand miles of wiring, circuit breaker and fuses, the Smart Wheel module and Remote door lock module. I'm pretty sure that the Meridian and Journey's have the MMDC inside the cab, someplace un under the dash.

Also, the older data transmission line was the 1587. Mine is equipped with the J1939. If you in fact have a VDC, then you also might, or should have, the 1587 data line. Anything with the MMDC, should also be fitted with the J1939. That means, anything from late '03 and up. Kinda like, also at the time my chassis was traveling down the line, there was bickering between Freightliner and I think Winne or CAT at the time. The bickering was about whether to use ONE fuel filter or the traditional two.

Mine and several others, ended up with one fuel filter while later, they went back to 2 fuel filters. Stuff changes all the time, at least back then it did. I don't know how stable it is now.
Scott

imnprsd · 06-27-2021, 04:24 PM

FireUp: You covered several interesting points that should help the OP learn more about the data ports his gauges operate on. My guess is that he is dealing with a ground bus issue; and his 2006 no doubt has an MMDC, but I wonder if he has the same Medallion Message Center as I do?

Since you have a CAT I'm not sure we would have the same Message Center. If we do then we know the Medallion Message Center does not care what type of data port it gets its information from.

Let me tell you what I know and believe about my RV, and then maybe you can draw some conclusions on the other subjects you talked about.

My 2004 Itasca was delivered to the Winnebago Dealer sometime in January, 2004; and I have an ISC-350-CAPS injection system. It also came with just one fuel filter. My RV also did NOT include the necessary relay and wiring for the engine alternator to charge the house batteries.

I also have the "S" Series coach; and I think this has something to do with the type of wiring used, but I really do not know. The "S" Series designation pops up now and then, but it's rarely used by me.

More... I know I have a VDC, because I repaired it myself when my secondary air tank gauge started to read below 80PSI.

Do I have an MMDC? I don't think so. I have been inside my dash, where I have the TripTek computer that superimposes engine data on my Sony monitor, but I really did not go looking for any other type of MMDC.

I also have never had any troubles with my Message Center.

So, my 2004 Itasca Horizon 40AD Model is an "early model" with an ISC-350, but from what you are saying, your early 2004 Horizon 36GD, with a C7-CAT-330, came with the newer MMDC and uses a different data port.

So do you know what Series of coach you have?

If it's not an "S-Series," like my RV, and I'm guessing it's not, then maybe that has to do with the engine and injection system differences; and maybe the transmission computer too.

My VDC (and wiring) is located next to my side radiator and next to my transmission computer.

Question: Are your air tank gauges vacuum and you have some vacuum hoses going directly to the gauge or are they electric? Mine are electric, which is why I have a VDC... with a transducer that converts PSI into an analog signal so the electric air tank gauge can register the correct PSI.

I always thought air gauges changed in 2005/2006, which again was a transition to the Cummins-ISC/ISL-CAPSII pump and a High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) injection system. However, it sounds like your Freightliner-CAT delivery made the jump to a different data port and to the MMDC sooner.

And in late 2006 Winnebago's, Cummins then started shipping High Pressure Fuel Rail (HPFR) injection systems.

Of course, we also know more engine builds are 1 year earlier than the model year of the RV. So my 2004 Itasca has a 2003 Cummins.

Freightliner uses these standard data buses, but they also use some custom addresses for proprietary use so the engine diagnostic equipment can be built special to Cummins and special to CAT.

Does your C7 use a Huey Injection System? I don't know much about that system, but I think it's CAT's version of the CAPS.

So when it comes to fuel delivery, is it recommended for CAT owners to install a FASS or AirDog 12V fuel pump like it is for Cummins ISC/ISL CAPS1 & CAPS2?

When did CAT go to a HPFR system?

FIRE UP · 06-28-2021, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnprsd

FireUp: You covered several interesting points that should help the OP learn more about the data ports his gauges operate on. My guess is that he is dealing with a ground bus issue; and his 2006 no doubt has an MMDC, but I wonder if he has the same Medallion Message Center as I do?

Since you have a CAT I'm not sure we would have the same Message Center. If we do then we know the Medallion Message Center does not care what type of data port it gets its information from.

Let me tell you what I know and believe about my RV, and then maybe you can draw some conclusions on the other subjects you talked about.

My 2004 Itasca was delivered to the Winnebago Dealer sometime in January, 2004; and I have an ISC-350-CAPS injection system. It also came with just one fuel filter. My RV also did NOT include the necessary relay and wiring for the engine alternator to charge the house batteries.

Wow, I find it extremely odd that Winne/Itasca did not wire your coach to have the alternator charge the house batteries. What do/did they expect you to do, start up from a few days remote camping and head to the next spot, only to find out you had no charge to your house batteries while you drove there? Man, that's odd!

I also have the "S" Series coach; and I think this has something to do with the type of wiring used, but I really do not know. The "S" Series designation pops up now and then, but it's rarely used by me.

More... I know I have a VDC, because I repaired it myself when my secondary air tank gauge started to read below 80PSI.

Do I have an MMDC? I don't think so.

No, you won't have an MMDC if you have a VDC. Both are basically an *Interpreter*. Their job is to receive signals from various components like, the engine ECM, transmission TCM, ABS module and the Air system then, interpret those signals and, convert them to a language that be sent to the gauges on the dash
I have been inside my dash, where I have the TripTek computer that superimposes engine data on my Sony monitor, but I really did not go looking for any other type of MMDC. Nope, you won't find it 'cause it ain't there. However, I also find it odd that, your coach was on the Freightliner assembly line very close to mine and in fact, was more than likely after mine yet, yours was fitted with the older system of the VDC and not the MMDC.
By the way, may I ask, how many pins are in your diagnostic plug on the back of the coach and, under your dash? If you have 5, your data link is a J1587. If you have 9 pins, your data link is a J1939.

I also have never had any troubles with my Message Center.

So, my 2004 Itasca Horizon 40AD Model is an "early model" with an ISC-350, but from what you are saying, your early 2004 Horizon 36GD, with a C7-CAT-330, came with the newer MMDC and uses a different data port.I don't think that a different make engine, would dictate a difference in data ports. The MMDC is used in multiple trucks, fire engines, cement trucks and many more, all of which have the 9 pin J1939 data line.

So do you know what Series of coach you have? Nope, sure don't . All I know is it's the Freightliner XC *Evolution* chassis.

If it's not an "S-Series," like my RV, and I'm guessing it's not, then maybe that has to do with the engine and injection system differences; and maybe the transmission computer too.

My VDC (and wiring) is located next to my side radiator and next to my transmission computer.

Question: Are your air tank gauges vacuum and you have some vacuum hoses going directly to the gauge or are they electric? No sir, mine are electronic. The MMDC has air lines going to it, much like the VDC but, the signal is changed and transmitted to the gauges via a different data link. By the way, that data link form the MMDC to both the gage cluster and message center is a J339. Mine are electric, which is why I have a VDC... with a transducer that converts PSI into an analog signal so the electric air tank gauge can register the correct PSI.

I always thought air gauges changed in 2005/2006, which again was a transition to the Cummins-ISC/ISL-CAPSII pump and a High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) injection system. However, it sounds like your Freightliner-CAT delivery made the jump to a different data port and to the MMDC sooner. Yeah, it would have been nice to be on the Freightliner assembly line way back then and, knowing what we know now, see WHY there was some coaches AFTER mine, that ended up with a 3126 CAT while mine, ended up with the newer C-7. Some, again AFTER mine, ended up with a VDC vs being built with an MMDC. Again, I don't think it matters whether or not, a Cummins or CAT was installed.

And in late 2006 Winnebago's, Cummins then started shipping High Pressure Fuel Rail (HPFR) injection systems.

Of course, we also know more engine builds are 1 year earlier than the model year of the RV. So my 2004 Itasca has a 2003 Cummins.

Freightliner uses these standard data buses, but they also use some custom addresses for proprietary use so the engine diagnostic equipment can be built special to Cummins and special to CAT.

Does your C7 use a Huey Injection System? Yep, it sure does have the HEUI (Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injector) system. I don't know much about that system, but I think it's CAT's version of the CAPS. The HEUI system is not proprietary to CAT. Ford uses it to in it's diesel pickups. And, I'm pretty sure it's used in other make engines.

So when it comes to fuel delivery, is it recommended for CAT owners to install a FASS or AirDog 12V fuel pump like it is for Cummins ISC/ISL CAPS1 & CAPS2? Not a clue what that FASS or AirDog system(s) is or are. This is the first I've heard of them.

When did CAT go to a HPFR system?

Also, not familiar with that term.

Scott

imnprsd · 06-30-2021, 12:08 AM

The VDC is a "black box" which on my coach is located by the side radiator. It stands for Vehicle Data Computer.

I'm under the impression the VDC was replaced in later model 2004 Freightliner chassis with a MMDC, that basically does the same thing, only the MMDC is located behind, under the drivers side instrument panel/top.

The VDC is described by the diagram below, and includes 2 air transducers to convert air pressure into electrical pulses the primary and secondary tank air gauges read.

What I don't know is if your 2004-CAT has a VDC like my 2004-Cummins delivery or if you have an MMDC with air gauges in your dash that receive electrical signals or if you have air hoses plumbed directly to the back of the gauge.

It's a very minor point. However, if your air tank gauges start reading funny you will want to know how to repair your VDC. (See my thread on how to do that.)

Oldchinahand · 07-02-2021, 12:32 AM

KREWLBREEZE

Back to your original question. We had the exact issue with our '07 Journey. We do not deal with Freightliner anymore. Long Story. WWWilliams is our choice.

But Freightliner was on track when they had you look for white twisted wires going to your gages. What they did not tell you, but obviously knew, is that there is a old (2010?) recall on that wiring harness. Old wires black, recall fix white.

WW knew about it. WW installed the recall harness no cost (charge back to Freightliner) This was done in January 2019.

Fair Winds and Following Seas

Kewlbreeze · 07-02-2021, 07:21 AM

[QUOTE=Oldchinahand;3899857]KREWLBREEZE

But Freightliner was on track when they had you look for white twisted wires going to your gages. What they did not tell you, but obviously knew, is that there is a old (2010?) recall on that wiring harness. Old wires black, recall fix white.

Terry,

That is most interesting. But I am confused. Freightliner told me if the wires were white then they should be replaced with black.....

Also, I made at least 3 maybe 4 calls to the help center without them ever saying anything about a recall.....

I will call them back and ask about the recall just to see what they say.

Thanks so much for your insight on this - I will follow your lead and see where it goes.

Dennis
Planet Houston