Fiberglass Roof Channel Maintenance - Is There A Better Method?

[Upinsmoke]

As a quick follow up to my last post regarding the scaffolding. While it should seem obvious, it wasn't to me initially (duh) and others to whom I've told the story, you don't move the scaffolding - you move the RV.

You can reach about a 7-8' section and then move the RV. When one side is done - turn the RV around and go the other way.

One other tip would be to rent TWO "cat walks." One from which to work, and the other for all of the other supplies you'll want with you. If you only use one, I can almost guarantee you will kick something on the ground at least once. I believe this is visible in the photo.

[Topsail]

Originally Posted by Upinsmoke

As a quick follow up to my last post regarding the scaffolding. While it should seem obvious, it wasn't to me initially (duh) and others to whom I've told the story, you don't move the scaffolding - you move the RV.

You can reach about a 7-8' section and then move the RV. When one side is done - turn the RV around and go the other way.

One other tip would be to rent TWO "cat walks." One from which to work, and the other for all of the other supplies you'll want with you. If you only use one, I can almost guarantee you will kick something on the ground at least once. I believe this is visible in the photo.

When I started my reseal job last year I tried using my little giant ladder. It's a great ladder but I soon realized I should get the scaffolding. Scaffolding is the way to go and I used three planks AND WHEELS! The wheels were locking so it wasn't a problem. You might think moving it over rough ground is a problem. I did it over sandy spots and it still worked great.

[jabass]

To preclude any problems wirh your sealant....after putting down "new" sealant then place eternabond tape over that sealant and you won't have to worry anymore..

[imnprsd]

I ordered some of this so called "caulk tape" off Amazon and I was very surprised to find out that it is crystal clear... even glass clear! It's also only $10 for a 35' role and anyone can apply it. So it's quite cheap and yet I am very impressed with it's quality and how clear it is!

Note: They call it "caulking tape" because they advertise this stuff for kitchen and bath caulking applications, but I think calling it caulking tape is not the best description.

The adhesive is not gooey either; and I think it will stick very well to paint and provide excellent UV protection, but the tape will probably not stick that well to the Geocell FlexPro sealant. (TBD) However, I don't know it that matters.

I know it will stick to the paint well, but it may not grab the 1/4" of metal in the water channel. And I don't know if it matters, because the real hold will come from the the 1" of tape that sticks to the painted roof radius.

Here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm not sure how long this stuff will last, but it may last a very long time. I also don't think you will have a problem removing it if you need too, because the goo is not at all like the Eternabond goo, but I think it's strong enough to never peal off in the wind and rain. (TBD)

Obviously, someone needs to try it out before we can say for sure this is a good solution, but I sort of like the idea of applying this crystal clear tape over the Geocell Flexpro sealant vs. top coating the FlexPro with a layer of 100% Silicon. Why? I'm still concerned that when you apply the silicon the the Geocell that it will not stick that well, but it might? (TBD) And I'm not sure the silicon will last as long as the clear tape in the sun, but it migh? (TBD)

My coach is in storage so I can't weigh in on which approach is better. So if anyone tries the clear tape method; and someone else tries applying 100% clear silicon over the ProFlex sealant, then maybe we will have some feedback in another 3-6 months.

[Upinsmoke]

For $10 I figured what the heck, I'll try some of it along a portion of the roof seam. . . . until I found this by the folks who make it:

Question:
Is this tape uv resistant? i want to use this outdoors in direct (florida) sun and don't want it breaking down due to sunlight exposure.

Answer:
Not suggest using this tape in direct sun for a long time, but it will hold a month or so in direct sun based on Florida heat.
By LLP International Group Seller on July 17, 2019

Just an fyi

[BobC]

I'm going to have to check into scaffolding rentals.

I can attest to the danger of ladders. I fell 5' while transitioning from my RV ladder to a stepladder in July 2019 and severely tore my right rotator cuff. It could have been much worse, I didn't hit my head and my leg, ankles etc. were OK. Even though my surgery was very successful, it took the better part of a year for me to get back to something close to normal.

[imnprsd]

I bought a $10 real of this stuff, and I live in Hawaii. So I will test some of the super-clear caulking tape out in the sun; and then I will give everyone an update as soon as it fails. TTYL in about 2-6 months!

Honestly, I'm more concerned about adhesion than I am about the plastic yellowing, but we shall see.

So if your RV is now in storage and NOT in the sun, then just sit tight. If your RV ins stored in the sun and elements, then you guy should (IMO) try one of these 2 methods out.

And I agree, for $10 what have you got to loose? ...Plus people right all kinds of things in these product reviews, but it is a data point. What we do not know is if this person is being factual or is paid to "trash" product reviews. And yes they do that! ...So you really need to read all the reviews before you "take a chance" on a product.

Since this is a "collective effort" and since we should be able to trust fellow RV owners to tell the truth, let's see how this thread comes to a conclusion?

[Upinsmoke]

imnprsd, thanks for being willing to check it out for us. I'm sure the entire Winnie community would like to find a good and long term solution to a well known problem.


As a point of clarification, the response about the product not holding up to UV light was the manufacturer, "By LLP International Group Seller on July 17, 2019", not a questionable/unreliable poster.

Hope your test works out well for us.

[imnprsd]

Upinsmoke: Good to know. I missed that part. Hmmm... This leads me to now believe the only real option to add additional UV protection to the Geocell ProFlex sealant is to top-coat it with 100% pure silicon.

I that case, I would would look for a clear shellac that is flexible, to put over the ProFlex first, and then apply the 100% clear silicon on top, with one concern:

I have no doubt the shellac or (primer of your choice) will work, but I would be concern it will crack underneath with the flexing of the coach. (TBD)

Alternatively, you don't have to use any shellac-primer under the 100% silicon and see what happens?

Or, you might just put FlexSeal Clear (out of the can) on top of the ProFelx and see if that works well?

Alternatively, you can also NOT do anything to the ProFlex and take your chances like most of us are doing now

So in this regard: Has any put ProFlex clear sealant on their roof and can confirm it will last 4+ years in outside storage conditions (hot or cold)? ...How long has this "stuff" been on the market, because I believe 2 years ago Winnebago was using Mantas Bond Clear sealant.

This entire thread is an experiment after all; and I would also like to say this: One winter I left my RV in Montana with temperatures from 5F-35F-60F for 7 months, in a fully enclosed barn that was not heated; and when I picked up my RV... I found all my interior 100% clear silicon in the kitchen and shower just started to peal-up.

I attribute this to the 14 years of age and the cold that year. So silicon is also susceptible to freezing conditions IMO. And I think this is the case because silicon adhesion is not as strong as polyurethane sealants or hybrids.

That said, as long as the silicon sticks reasonably well to the ProFlex then that should prove to be a added plus when it come to UV protection. I just don't have any testimonials on this subject; so we need to see what happens over time.

Not to forget I have used Eternabond tape and I know that stuff really sticks well when you clean and prep the surface properly. I just don't want a black strip, but the day Eternabond comes out with a 1" dark green or clear tape, I would definitely go that route, but that's not an option at this point and probably never will come to fruition.

[imnprsd]

UPDATE

I ordered a $10 roll of "LLPT Caulk Tape-Clear" on Amazon and tested it's adhesion on my car paint.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...91CK8ZYM&psc=1

I am very impressed with it's thickness, clarity, grip, and the tape is almost unnoticeable when applied to a flat surface.

However, I have not tried it on my RV roof radius, because I don't pick-up my RV from storage until ~April-2021. So maybe someone else who is willing to try this $10-$20 solution ($20 for 2 rolls) can let us know how they make out?

My concern is that the roof channel will interfere with the adhesion of the tape? (TBD) ...And if this clear tape pulls off at some point then that's sort of rules this option out.

I also considered putting a bead of 100% silicon on top of the Geocel Proflex, to act as a UV barrier, but I have since learned that silicon has acidic properties that may breakdown the Proflex over time. (Unknown if it really does?)

So after much thought, I'm changing my position on what can be done to extend the life of our Proflex roof sealant -- by protecting it from UV damage? And I think using a can of Flex Pro Clear will work best. This stuff will add a clear rubber barrier that should look good and last. ...Just tape, spray, and peal off the tape away leaving the Flex Pro Clear only on top of the Proflex.

Now who is willing to be the first Gennie Pig? ...Or you you will have to wait for me to try Pro Flex-Clear in April/May 2021 and I will post another update then.

[Upinsmoke]

Because of this thread, and the fact that I detest having to redo the roof sealant so (too) often, I bought a small can of Flexseal in black. I can't/won't spray it because there is almost always a breeze at the RV site and I don't want the chance of over spray.

We'll be leaving for Florida in several days and be there until March (fingers crossed), so if the weather and my "want to" cooperate, I'm going to coat a portion of the Proflex with the Flexseal and see what happens.

My thought is that it's unlikely the Flexseal will cause the Proflex to fail any sooner than normal, and if it extends the life of it a little, so much the better.

We'll see.

[4x4van]

Following this thread carefully. Last year, I had the entire driver side come loose while driving in heavy 10:00 winds. Ironically, I had just been discussing Winnebago's "weak link" in their roofing construction to my fellow camper the very day before (how's that for a coincidence?). Lost some of the styrofoam inserts, but not the roof material itself, and was able to duct tape it down to get home.

Re-did the roof joint with the recommended Manus Bond 75 (my roof is white, so the white Manus Bond is the recommended stuff), but the Geocell has me intrigued. While the Winnebago sealant sheets call out for Manus Bond on white roofs, they do call out clear silicone on painted roofs. Since silicone has such a negative connotation on ALL RV forums, the Geocell seems like a natural replacement for those painted roofs, but is the White Geocell better than the White Manus Bond, or am I better to stick with the MB?

BTW, I have seen several posters here mention putting Eternabond tape over the joint once resealed, however I would caution against that. I recall reading that while Eternabond has great sealing properties, it doesn't have good mechanical shear strength, which is ultimately what that joint needs. I have read posts here and on other forums of people who used Eternabond over their joint, and STILL lost their roof. The problem was that the Manus Bond STILL deteriorated over time, but that deterioration went unnoticed due to it being covered by the Eternabond. Just something to keep in mind; the Eternabond will make it impossible to actually inspect that joint.

Finally, about the oft stated claim that silicone doesn't stick to itself; Is that really fact or is it just a long accepted wive's tail? I used silicone on the roof of my last RV exclusively for 13 years. Would go up yearly and touch up any bad areas, and never had a problem adding new silicone to old silicone (cleaned with denatured alcohol); never had the new peel up off of the old, and never had any roof leaks. Also, I have seen several YouTube videos that seem to debunk the idea that silicone won't stick to itself.

[jarnarcos]

4X4Van, in your comment you stated that

"I have read posts here and on other forums of people who used Eternabond over their joint, and STILL lost their roof."

What posts were these? Would be very helpful to understand the specifics of what was done and how the application failed.
Thank you,
jA

[imnprsd]

I can't imagine Etrnabond tape ripping. It's so hard to cut and has a rubber like texture, I think 4x4van misspoke.

The problem (according to what I have read) with putting silicon on top of Mantus Bond or Geocell's Flex Pro clear sealant, for the purposed of blocking UV, is that silicon apparently has acids in it that leach out and breakdown the adhesion properties in these hybrid polyurethane sealants.

I personally think we can do more to extend the time between roof channel maintenance by putting a rubber top coat over the Pro Flex clear sealant to block harmful UV rays.
Remember, 100% silicon and rubber offer the best UV protection, but lack bonding strength.


All this is experimental. And after 20 years it's about time we find a better way to reseal our roof channel seams. So please post your positive and/or negative conclusions after you try different methods.

Keep in mind, your roof channel does flex and moves when you torque that big box almost every time you go over a sloped curb to a shopping center or any number of other transitions. So one thing you can do to reduce bending and overall chassis stress is to always drive over these transition ramps as straight as possible... and avoid steep transition driveways when possible.

If you have a white roof, I think you have a number of "better" polyurethane sealant choices that are UV resistant. 3M makes the 4200 White sealant that has been used in the boating industry for years and this stuff has a very strong bond. However, I personally have never used the stuff. If someone has, please share your experiences.

Clear sealants are not very UV proof; and as stated earlier, clear silicon sealants do not have enough adhesion strength... needed to keep the fiberglass roof glued into the roof channel... so your roof does not blow off.

Final comment: The most critical part of your roof is just behind the driver's side front cap. This is where cracks in the sealant can let air get under the leading corner of the fiberglass roof and rip it off. So this is a definite corner to look at every time you do a walk around before you hit the road.

[youracman]

Originally Posted by jarnarcos

4X4Van, in your comment you stated that

"I have read posts here and on other forums of people who used Eternabond over their joint, and STILL lost their roof."

What posts were these? Would be very helpful to understand the specifics of what was done and how the application failed.
Thank you,
jA

Just a datapoint: I put 2" white Eternabond Tape over Geocell ProFlex about 3-1/2 years ago. Looks "almost" as good as the day I applied it ..... using one continuous application (no seams/splices). I used their cleaner and rolled it out with a 2" hard rubber roller. My rig is stored outside (no cover) and it has seen its share of strong side winds out on the road. I do often check and re-seal the open cove (fore and aft) there at the ends of the tape. The reason I applied the EB tape was that the Pro Flex developed a longitudinal hairline crack right in the center of the channel along most of its length ........... I noticed it when I checked it after a couple of months. I really believe that was my bad ..... I took off for AZ 2 days after I installed the Pro Flex ........ now I doubt it was fully cured. "Get-there-itis" on my part.

Be Safe.

[Phil-T]

Originally Posted by youracman

Just a datapoint: I put 2" white Eternabond Tape over Geocell ProFlex about 3-1/2 years ago. Looks "almost" as good as the day I applied it ..... using one continuous application (no seams/splices). I used their cleaner and rolled it out with a 2" hard rubber roller. My rig is stored outside (no cover) and it has seen its share of strong side winds out on the road. I do often check and re-seal the open cove (fore and aft) there at the ends of the tape. The reason I applied the EB tape was that the Pro Flex developed a longitudinal hairline crack right in the center of the channel along most of its length ........... I noticed it when I checked it after a couple of months. I really believe that was my bad ..... I took off for AZ 2 days after I installed the Pro Flex ........ now I doubt it was fully cured. "Get-there-itis" on my part.

Be Safe.

Got a PIC or two of your EB job?

[4x4van]

Originally Posted by jarnarcos

4X4Van, in your comment you stated that

"I have read posts here and on other forums of people who used Eternabond over their joint, and STILL lost their roof."

What posts were these? Would be very helpful to understand the specifics of what was done and how the application failed.
Thank you,
jA

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/roo...ml#post3835573

Here's at least one, that shows what I'm talking about. From reading that, I have no reason to believe that the installation was done incorrectly, but to be fair, it also appears that "racking" may have played a part in the Eternabond coming loose. However, an important note is that Eternabond themselves stated that the tape has NO mechanical strength.

Originally Posted by imnprsd

I can't imagine Etrnabond tape ripping. It's so hard to cut and has a rubber like texture, I think 4x4van misspoke.

The post I am referring to above, the Eternabond didn't "rip", nor did I ever claim that. It actually came loose, due to "racking". While it is obviously very strong and sticks well, racking would put a completely different directional "pull" on it than in any other typical application, one that Eternabond themselves don't recommend.

My concern with using Eternabond to cover that joint is that inspection of the sealant (whatever you use) then becomes impossible. IF in fact the mechanical strength is, as Eternabond says, non-existent, then you could STILL lose the roof in a heavy wind situation without ever being aware of the fact that the actual sealant joint was ready to fail. All of our rigs are subject to "racking" to some extent, and that could compromise the Eternabond adhesion without our knowledge. So while the standard annual inspection/repair is of course labor intensive, out-of-sight/out-of-mind is not always a good thing.

[imnprsd]

When I opened this thread I wanted to find a better solution to eliminate or extend the time between re-gluing the fiberglass roof ends to the roof channel maintenance?

Perhaps I should have said, I wanted to arrive at a better CLEAR TYPE solution to our roof channel maintenance. Why?

Answer: We already know owners that have a white roof radius can use a stronger "white" polyurethane sealant like those from 3M (#4200 or #5200); or they can use "white" Eternabond tape for that extra strong hold and insurance to avoid a wind related roof failure. ...And these "white" glues and tape look really good on a white painted roof radius. So you guys are lucky!

However, those of us with "non-white" painted roof radius don't want to use "white" or "black" Eternabond to permanently cure our roof channel maintenance issues.

I am looking for a "CLEAR" solution to our roof channel maintenance?

...And the 3 parameters we need from any sealant are that it has to be STRONG, FLEXIBLE, AND UV PROOF/RESISTANT.
===

* I was hoping GeoCel's "ProFlex" Clear sealant would fit the bill, but if "youracman" is reporting that his roof channel seam cracked, after just a couple of months -- then I once again we can't count on ProFlex delivering all 3 parameters we want.

What bothers me most is that "youracman" is also saying (I think) that the cracks in his ProFlex sealant were not caused by prolonged UV exposure, since these cracks developed in just a couple months, and I seriously doubt the UV works that fast to destroy the bond. So if ProFlex fails due to structural or shear strength test (on the road) just like Mantus Bond clear sealant failed after Winnebago put this stuff on my roof, then we have not found everything we need from a roof sealant in ProFlex, which seems to be the sealant de jour these days.

So where does that leave us?

* It would appear, the best material that achieves all 3 parameters is Eternabond. However, 2" Eternabond is only offered in "white" and "black."

* There are some semi-clear roof patch tapes you can buy in 2" widths, but I think I would rather use Eternabond "black" over my green roof painted radius vs. these other semi-clear caulking tapes. Why?

...I think the semi-clear will attract more attention to the roof from sun reflection vs. the Eternabond "black" tape that absorbs light. (A property of of the color black.)

Note: As I have said, I used "black" Eternabond on my green roof channel before and it was super strong, very durable, UV proof, and did not look too bad on my green roof painted roof radius, but that was on my old roof. I now have a new (2 years old) roof and last September I used GeoCell's ProFlex clear in the roof channel. So I'm still holding out for a CLEAR solution or adaptation to use, which is why I posted this thread.

REVIEW

* We know there are polyurethane sealants that are both strong and flexible, but these sealants are terrible when it comes to UV protection.

I have used some of these hybrid sealants on my roof, and in less than 1 year of sun exposure the brand by "Quad" failed and so did Gorilla Hybrid Clear. However, I wonder if adding a UV barrier on top of these clear polyurethane sealant will be a good solution? (IDK)

WHAT UV BARRIERS ARE CLEAR?

* I think I will go back to the idea I had earlier. I think I will try using this crystal-clear Caulking Tape over my ProFlex sealant that should add more strength to the fiberglass bond... will remain flexible... and will be create UV barrier that I hope will be a homerun! (TBD)

Note: If I did not already have this ProFlex sealant in my roof channel now, then I would probably look for a 5x more flexible polyurethane sealant (known for its stretch and bonding strength) and then Iwould hope this clear-caulk tape will provide the UV protection so I don't have to do any roof maintenance for 5+ years! (TBD)

LLPT Caulk Tape Clear 1.2 Inch x 33 Feet Extra Thickness Waterproof Adhesive for Sink Shower Bathtub Toilet Lavabo Kitchen (CT123)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

==> Just don't hold your breath waiting on me to report results, because I don't pick-up my RV until April or May.

Note: If I'm not sure 1 role will be long enough if you have a 40' RV, but at $11/role the I think I would buy 2 rolls and keep the left over for another project.

LLPT CRYSTAL CLEAR CAULKING TAPE COMMENTS

* I have used this tape on my car and it is crystal-clear and sticks really good, but on my car I can firmly press it flat against the paint, and it looks like it will last a long time in the sun. (TBD) My concern is how good the adhesion will be in my roof channel? (TBD) (See picture below.)

* Using this clear LLPT Caulk Tape will be my first attempt at finding a "CLEAR" solution that looks better than using Eternabond "black" tape. However, if this approach does not work, then I will go back to using Eternabond "black" tape over my green painted roof radius.

* If anyone tries this crystal-clear LLPT Caulk Tape and finds there are problems getting it to stick in the roof channel (as shown below and after you properly "prepare and clean" the channel) please let us know how things workout for you?

[youracman]

Originally Posted by Phil-T

Got a PIC or two of your EB job?

Phil- After I finished my EB tape install, I took several pics with my iphone thinking that even with white on white I would for sure at least see the black edge of the EB tape, amazed .... no contrast at all (maybe just a bad sun angle at the time.) I trashed the pics.

Jim HITek has some great pics of his EB tape install. He had it done in Mexico .... it took his guys about 1/10 as long as it took me, and it looks super good. Also, his installation has more "time on it" than mine; so I sent him a PM and asked him to post here.

Sorry about my pic fail.

I really believe if I had given the ProFlex several days (3 or 4?) to cure before I took off on my AZ trip it would not have failed. I just "think" even the minimal amount of "normal" racking on bumpy ol' highways was too much for the ProFlex after such a short cure time. I should add that I did, in fact, read in another forum where a guy had the same longitudinal cracking; I don't know what sealant he used or any other info though.

BTW-I didn't remove the "cracked" ProFlex from the channel on my rig; I just covered it up with 2" EB tape for "shade". My logic: I still have adhesive sealant which is well adhered to both sides of the channel and the filon is not gonna come out of there ..... especially with protection from the side winds offered by the EB tape. The mounting screws for that "J-rail/awing rail" are above the "water line" so I don't believe water is a concern ......... but I keep the coved ends of the EB tape sealed .... just in case. lol

Be safe, all.

[imnprsd]

Okay... Can someone who has used GeoCel "ProFlex" Clear Sealant let us know how it's holding up on their roof after 1-2 or 3+ years?

How long has this ProFlex Clear Sealant been on the market?