I have been in there also checking the overload switches also I’ve only checked one so far. And thank you also for the information you have been providing
Journey Cat: You are welcome. You are help me (all of us) a lot.
Previous forum members got us started like "Duner" and "Chaos Leaves Town" and I like the AZ Expert videos. In fact, if I lived near Phoenix I would not hesitate to spend my money there.
You are doing all the work. I'm in Hawaii and will not be picking up my RV until March or April or May... but one of the things I want to do this trip is PM my Basement AC.
Anyway, this a project I too am sick of, but on thing keeps leading to another. And if I go to all the trouble you have, I want to "do it right!"
This Overload Part may be a winner.
* Does AirXcel sell the #17 Overload Part #1450-0081?
I could not find it anywhere else, but on Amazon. And these overloads are cheap!
Only $10 for 2 with free Prime shipping.
Apparently you buy these things based on Wattage and not the compressor HP. This makes sense but how many watts should you get?
This is just a guess, but if each compressor is rated at 9A each then you would want your Overload P.T.C.R. to stop current from flowing at 9A x 120V = 1080 Watts, plus some "headroom" so your compressor does not shut off on hot day.
I just don't know if that means you should order a 1125W or 1500W or a 2250W Overload?
In the Amazon comment section someone said the 2250W is for 3HP Compressors, but I think our Basement ACs run hotter than a typical house AC.
This ad on Amazon says: MODEL: 1125W Overload is for 1.5HP compressors, but I think our compressor is 1/3HP or maybe it’s 3HP? IDK.
The Overload is a safety "cut out switch" that is monitoring the compressor head temperature.
==> Did you find rust under your Overload Device? ...Will a wire brush clean that up? ...And then would you paint it or just leave the metal exposed for a good contact? ...I think I would paint it with Rustoleum Rust Reformer.
So if you call AirXcel, please let us know if they sell the Overload and ask for the pertinent Panasonic Compressor specs? ...Better yet, maybe they will send you a Data Sheet?
* I think I heard Panasonic is not making our 115V, Rotary Compressor any more -- and they haven't for a long time. So I'm wondering what type of replacement there is... if any... and is this second source compressor will fit inside the box?
How To Reduce The Sound Of Your AC -- And Maybe Make It More Efficient
I read about people installing a compressor blanket to reduce the sound of their AC during the start up phase.
At the same time I was wondering if we can improve the efficiency of our basement AC by insulating the cold side of our AC box "better". I see in the picture there is some insulation, but I'm guessing it's not that much. And I don't know if the underside of the basement AC lid is insulated, but I think it should be. If it's not, adding a peal-n-stick reflective barrier of insulation there should help with cooling.
I doubt we can do much about the running noise by insulating the hot side, but maybe putting some peal and stick matting over the blower cages will reduce the vibration noise?
These compressor blankets on Amazon are $70ea ($140 for 2 compressors) and that's more money then I would spend... just to reduce the start-up noise. ...Because when I need my AC it's always in 90F+ weather and the thing runs all the time, so there is no start-up noise I am concerned about.
But I do think adding more insulation to better insulate the cold side of the box; and adding sound dampening insulation to the two blower covers maybe worthwhile; and worth $30 to find out.
* And I would add peal-n-stick insulation to the underside of the lid as well.
* All that is required is to use a throw-over piece of insulation to cover the that barrier piece of metal (aka Bulkhead #4 in my parts diagram) which separates the hot side of our AC box "better" from the cold side?
...But would it make any difference?
Here's a fantastic video on how our R22 Basement AC works:
...And at the very end you will see there is about a 75-degree difference between the high side temperatures and the low side temperature; and there is just a Bulkhead piece of metal... insulated by the factory only on one side.
Will performing these steps reduce the sound and make the AC cool more efficiently? IDK. But maybe it's worth a shot?
At least I hope you found the video very informative!
When the a/c is running we always switch the fan mode to "on" instead of auto. The fairly loud white noise of the fan in the a/c below the bed makes it so we never hear the compressor starting.
Also the dead air in the RV, w/o the fan running, makes it kind of warm while we wait for the temperature to rise far enough to start up the compressor again.
Same thing with roof a/c's, but they are much louder than the basement air conditioners.
When I started this thread I got the impression RV owners were adding a Hard Start Kits to upgrade AC compressor. The goal was to get the AC to start easier, run better, smother, sound quieter, and possibly last longer.
...And this is correct, but most of these RV owners have some band of RV-ROOF-TOP AC system (with one compressor) and/or they were popping circuit breakers on a hot day.
...And then there is another group of Class C, and some Class A RV owners, who want to start their AC using a small generator. So their needs are slightly different.
Diesel Pushers usually have a 50A generator and we don't seem to be as concerned about how to run tow ACs vs. those owners with only 30A service.
So let's talk about Easy Start devices first. For starters they cost ~$300-$350 each. (Ouch!) ...But they are often the only solution if you have a small, portable generator and you want to run your AC.
Why? Well, it turns out your "In-rush" Start Current needed to start your AC compressor spikes above what your small generator can handle and then your small generator dies. And note: We are probably talking about starting a Roof Top AC that came from the factory with a 48-53uF Start Capacitor.
To fix this you can try upgrading to a 88-108uF Hard Start Kit, and the best one on the market is the #8333A9021 Hard Start Kit we all know about.
So going this route is the first step to try because it the #8333A9021 is only $35. And if after that you still have trouble starting your AC, or your lights flicker when the AC compressor kicks-in, then your only other option is to install an EastStart Device, which is what the industry refers to as a "Soft Start" device.
Now us Coleman (2-Ton) Basement AC owners, have 2 compressors in our box, and I while I would love to install an EasyStart... I'm not going to spend $750 when my AC will start just fine with the #8333A9021 Hard Start Kit that came stock from the factory with a 88-108 Start Capacitor and a Start Mortor (P.T.C Relay, aka WX5 or WX7).
...But the same logic applies. I.e., if I want a "poor mans" upgrade to help my compressor run “better,” then one thing I can try is to upgrade my OEM #8333A9021 Hard Start Kit to a SPP6. And that will increase my Start Capacitor by "one notch.” Which is to say I will replace my OEM Start Capacitor (88-108uF) and Motor Starter with an all-in-one Supco SPP6 that has a Start Capacitor value of 130-156uF and the same type of P.T.C. Relay (Switch). Plus it’s just a 2-Wire Boost device, which I will call an “Upgrade” for now.
But not so fast! Before you upgrade you should check all capacitors to make sure they are in spec. (My Panasonic Compressor use a 45uF Run Cap.)
…Then listen to see if your AC starts faster and/or runs better… as in quieter. And maybe your in room air will even be colder.
If you hear a humm… during start-up or a loud click when the compressor comes on, then maybe upgrading to a SPP6 is for you?
Note: A worn out compressor might also cause hard starting so bumping up your start capacitance might help there too.
QUESTION: WILL ADDING A SPP6 TO MY COLEMAN 6535 BASEMENT AC ALSO PROLONG THE LIFE OF THE COMPRESSOR?
==> Simple answer: IDK! But I think if you measure your "In-rush" Start Current before and after installing the SPP6 you will have your answer!
==> So for $15ea ($30 for 2) it’s worth a shot. ...Or if everything is okeydokey, you can just leave your #8333A9021 Hard Start Kit (with a 88-108uF Start Capacitor) as-is.
==> Of course, if you want to spend $750 for two EasyStart Devices that’s up to you. And your AC current will be less at startup and probably less during the normal operations as well. These are great devices, but expensive for RV Glamping! Also, EasyStart seem to the only game in town when it comes to installing a "soft start" device for 115V applications in an RV.
=== /// ===
The picture has everything I have talked about above in one Data Sheet. I created it to help me know what upgrading my Start Capacitor involves and what Hard Start Kit from Supco is available for 115V HVAC compressors. (And there are only a few.)
Note: For now let's just say you do not want to use a 5-2-1 Hard Start in your RV, because almost all of these are made for 208V HVAC. However, I may have more to say about using an Adjustable (APR5) 5-2-1Potential relay in the future. (TBD)
...And if you wonder what a 3-N-1 Hard Start Kit is used for it’s this: Techs commonly use a 3-N-1 Kit for refrigerators as a temporary fix... so you can keep your food from spoiling while you wait for the OEM part to come in on order.
Summary: At first I thought the #833A9021 Hard Start Kit, with its Starter Motor (P.T.C.R inside) was a weak link. …I thought this because a number of owners posted pictures of these devices getting melted. ...And I was concerned that you can burn-up your Compressor Start Winding if the contacts in this device weld shut and do not open. (Which is possible!)
However, these P.T.C.R. relay type switches are more reliable than I thought and cheap and will last a long time -- unless you are always using low voltage shore power!
So when it comes to running your RV-AC, my recommendation, after all my research, is to pay more attention to "Low Shore Power Voltage" and/or Low Generator Voltage too! ...I know I will form now on! And if you have a problem there your only option is to get a 30A or 50a Hughes Autoformer.
Note: That P.T.C.R. switch has contact points that wear out. And as they wear out they conduct more heat. So I recommend you change your #8333A9021 or any P.T.C.R every 5 years -- or sooner if you see any distress in this area.
....And YES, it seems to make sense to bump up your Start Capacitance to the next notch. This means for you Dometic roof-top owners, you can go to a #8333A9021 Hard Start Kit. And for us Coleman Basement AC owners, that means buying two SPP6 devices.
So this concludes what a Hard Start Kit "Upgrade" is all about. It consists of notching-up your Start Capacitor value a bit and installing a new P.T.C.R. due to wear every 5 or so years of active summer use . And the good news is that these SPP6 devices are relatively cheap! …Far cheaper than replacing your compressor, that is for sure!
More Talk about the WSX7 Motor Starter (AKA P.C.T. Relay-Thermistor)
In the post above I did not describe the PCT-Relay function very well. In fact, I meant to say there are "contact-points" that touch the PTCR-Thermistor on each side, and they can wear out, but I did not want to leave the impression these "contact points" are like in a normal switching relay contact point, because there are no moving parts in a PTCR Motor Starter.
==> And this why Journey Cat told us there is no bleed-off resistor on top of his Start Capacitor. I.e., only 5-2-1 relays use these bleed-off resistors to help prevent contact-point burnout. ...But as I said, a PTCR-Thermistor (semiconductor) has no moving parts so what fails are the electrical properties in the materials use do make a PTCR-Thermistor.
So now that is settled, did you know you can measure the resistance of a PTCR at room temperature?
For example, that Starter Motor #WSX7 (PTCR) has a ohm value of 22.1.
...And the SPP6 ohms out at about 37.5.
...And I found out that WX7 and most PTCR-Thermistors of this type -- cutoff all current when they reach about 1K ohms.
This is not so important, but this is: When the resistance in a PTCR gets high enough something cool happens: The PTCR blocks all all current in the circuit from passing on to the Start Capacitor!
This act of semiconductor physics takes the Start Capacitor out of play. And this is what we want!
Not to be overly dramatic about all this, but this is a very important relay-switch, because if the Start Capacitor does not get dropped from the circuit, your compressor will over heat and will wear down over time... to one day the compressor will not start at all.
What I am saying is that all the time the compressor is running, the PTCR device is open and is not switching back and forth. Consequently, it's not operating in too harsh of an environment and should last a long time.
What I do not know, and I think this is important, is how the SPP6 stands up to low voltage? ...And my concerns are these:
* We have seen pictures of how low voltage melts a WSX7 Motor Starter (PTCR), which is built with very strong plastic material designed to tolerate heat.
* And we can also see the SPP6 plastic is about as cheap as you can make it. So while I do not have a problem suggesting the SPP6 is electrically (probably) a good upgrade to increase your Start Capacity a notch; I am concerned the PTCR plastic will fail sooner if used in an RV vs. using a WXS7, because RV are more subject to low supply voltage conditions.
Does anyone out there have any experience using a SPP6 device in low voltage situations?
===> I have been talking with a Supco technical support person so I will ask him what type of plastic they use and at what temperature it will melt, but I don't expect an answer.
===> I also know the normal temperature of the WSX7 runs at about 115F-125F, which is hot to the touch.
==> On the other hand we know the WSX7 plastic can and does melt, but we don't know if the Supco plastic will under the same conditions? ...So I will try to find that out.
Here is the text book definition of a PTC Relay:
A Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) Relay is just a "Thermistor" pie shaped device pressed between two metal contacts. They are very cheap to build, but very reliable and are often selected for applications where ruggedness, reliability and stability are important.
These are all the thing an RVer is looking for except one: No AC devices are made to operate under low voltage conditions.
A PTC thermistor acts like a "normally closed" switch. And when it's closed current will flow to the start capacitor and a greater phase angle will apply added torque to start the compressor motor.
* As the current flows through the PTCR-Thermistor, it quickly heats up and its resistance will quickly increase to a point where the current flow will dramatically reduced -- to the point no current flows thru the Thermistor -- thus removing the start winding and/or start capacitor from the circuit.
So what's a better solution to using a cheaply made SPP6 and achieves the same ~500% torque increase over your Run Capacitor of 45uF? ...Because any boost, up to a point, over your 108uF #833A9021 Hard Start Kit is better than none at all; or so I think.
==> I don't see why you can't just take a WSX7 and put that PTCR-Motor-Starter on top of a higher quality electrolytic capacitor in the 130-156uF range. What do you think? Is this a HOME RUN?
...Glad I thought of it! ...But I have not tested that theory out.. but I will, unless I come up with a better mouse trap! (TBD)
There are other, much cheaper solutions after all, that don't cost $350x2+tax=$750 to using a "EasySoft" Device... so we are not done with this topic yet! (Oh joy!)
Hard start capacitor upgrades continued - trying to wrap this up!
At the risk of repeating myself for the 10th time... I'm almost satisfied I have done all I can do. And here are the highlights:
* Coleman-Mach/AirXcel recommends the use of a Hard Start Kit (Part# 8333A9021) for all types of roof top and basement ACs.
* The 6535-xxxx Basement AC comes with a Hard Start Kit, but most of the roof-top AC either do not have a start capacitor at all, or the Hard Start Kit they come with only has a small start capacitor to help start your AC. However, the good news, based on my research, is that you can bump-up your OEM start capacitor a notch, or add a Hard Start Kit to your roof top AC if you don’t already have one; and us basement AC owners can also notch-up our start capacitor that should help the AC start faster, smoother and possibly sound quieter... but only during the start cycle, because we are not doing anything to the size of the run capacitor.
SUGGESTOINS:
* Before you do anything, it’s important you first confirm all your capacitors are in spec. and then you can go about making adjustments. (There’s no risk. And repairs are easy and cheap!)
* Using a Hard Start Kit (with a larger start capacitor and potential relay) will greatly increase the start-up torque to the compressor rotor, but only for a split second of time, and then the start-up capacitor drops out of the circuit, thanks to the Starter Motor PTC-Relay (Thermistor switch).
* To help your basement compressor start, all you need to do is: 1) Remove your 88-108uF start capacitor and replace it with a 135-162uF start capacitor. And the cost for two of these capacitors on Amazon is only $21.
I gotta hand it to ya Sir,
That is one impressive amount of information, research and effort on your part concerning all the stats about the basement A/C - Heat units in our Winnes and Itascas. We've had our '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP now for right close to 9 years and there's now 97,000 miles on it. That basement A/C has served us quite well in all that time.
To date, the only *improvement*/modification I've done to it is to change out the one bushing for a sealed bearing. I'm not even sure which one it was since I did it so long ago. I just know that unit could be heard from quite a distance away by fellow campers and I was asked: " Man, is that thing gonna make it through the camp session"? So, after that camp time, we went home and I proceeded to yank that unit out and find out what was making the noise.
I, to this day, still can't believe, that in a $200K motorhome (we didn't pay that much) that the designers of that basement A/C - Heat unit, in the year 2004, would install a BRONZE BUSHING, that had a tilt top on it, that you're supposed to maintenance by putting a drop or two of oil in it, once every so often. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????????
Anyway, that's history. Again, I applaud you for taking the time with all this and posting all that GREAT information. I gotta figure out how to save all that. Mine is still making some noise but, as I understand it, it's from other fans in there. I have asked about maintenance and modifications on them and have received great info. Now, to set aside some time to yank that unit back out and replace all of what was advised to be replaced. Thanks again.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
Build your own Hard Start Kit (Boost) or use Supco SPP6?
I think you will be hard pressed to find a Atwood WSX7 Motor Starter for less than $35 in today's market, but if you do find one cheaper, please let us know where to buy it?
As an alternative to building your own Hard Start Kit (with a 135-162uF start capacitor and WSX7 Motor Starter)....
...you can try the SPP6 Hard Start Kit, that includes a 130-156uF capacitor and their version of a 22-ohm Motor Starter-PTCR for just $15 each; and the SPP6 type Hard Start Kits are widely available.
Note: All Supco SPP6 products are "UL Approved" so that's good, but I think the plastic they use to contain the PTCR is really cheap compared to the plastic composite used to build the Atwood and Dometic branded Motor Starter WSX7.
However, if you do not have low supply voltage issues then using a SPP6 will work just fine and last a long time. So this is a $30 solution for two SPP6. The other route to build your own, with a WSX7 can run you close to $100.
I hope these tips work out well for you. I’m sort of bummed everything I have researched comes down to just replacing two start capacitors for $21, but hay… if your Motor Starter (WSX7) is good to reuse, the good news is that this upgrade is only $20. Right? ...And you can easily do this upgrade yourself when you do your next PM on your air conditioner.
Please let us know what results you get if you try these suggestions.
Remember, it is very important you keep your run capacitor operating at 45uF or 35uF, whatever your spec calls for, so get a multi-meter that will check for capacitance or you can follow this method for checking your capacitance while your AC is running with a standard multi-meter, which I find interesting and I hope you will too! (See picture below.)
FireUp: Thanks for you kudos. I think I have finally become a pretty good HVAC tech on paper, but this is not a substitute for field experience. So any of you professionals out there who want to correct anything I have shared are more than welcome to do so -- so we all benefit.
As for your noisy AC: Is the noise you are complaining about occurring at start-up or during normal run time?
I think if your basement AC is making a lot of noise and you first need to verify all your capacitors are in spec, then then let us know your AC noise is related to:
A) RUN CYCLE NOISE ISSUES: Are your running amps with-in normal range? If not then maybe you have a...
* Worn Compressor
* Weak overload device
* Low voltage caused by a bad compressor relay (pitted contacts inside). Check the voltage out of your relay!!!
* Run cap is out of spec.
* Blower Wheel may be cracked and when you replace these with a plastic blower wheel it will run smoother.
* Outdoor motor bushing wear causing out of round rotor drag.
* Bushing needs oil
* Condenser is very dirty causing the compressor to heat up
===> Try insulating the inside with damping peal-and-stick reflective insulation the next time you have your AC lid off the top. (Out of your frame rails.)
==> In fact, this may be a good time to spray all the vibrating Hot side shrouding with Flex Seal to dampen the vibration noise. (Just a thought. This may or may not have a positive affect, but it might help. Maybe Journey Cat will tell us if he gives this idea a go since he has his 6535 opened up right now!)
B) START-UP CYCLE EXCESSIVE NOISE
* Try following the Poor Man's Hard Start Kit as describe above or use a couple SPP6 Hard Start Boost Kits.
* Check your "In-rush" start current if you have a capable "In-rush" multi-meter and if you find it spiking anywhere near your LRA=54A then you need to definitely add a bigger hard start kit after you rule out other physical factors.
I know my basement AC sounds louder when running in 105F+ weather...
And I would agree it's sad that Coleman did not spend another $1 to use sealed ball bearings on that Outdoor Blower 8-3/4" shaft. (See previous picture.) This bearing is located by your compressors on the left side of the unit. I know mine needs replacing soon too.
Note: I think more insulation inside the box would be a good upgrade too, but other than the bearing, insulation, and bumping-up your start capacitor... .this basement AC is a champ! And if I were looking for another RV I would only buy one with a basement AC.
Note: Apparently this option went away in 2010 when Colman stopped making them and when the bigger diesel RV when to two 13,500-15,000BTU AC roof top air conditioners... which explains why RVs started to come with 8000W Generators and then 10,000W Generators...cuz you need a bigger generator with these bigger AC running in tandem.
Note: Apparently this option went away in 2010 when Colman stopped making them and when the bigger diesel RV when to two 13,500-15,000BTU AC roof top air conditioners... which explains why RVs started to come with 8000W Generators and then 10,000W Generators...cuz you need a bigger generator with these bigger AC running in tandem.
I'm not sure what this comment means. They're still being made and replacement units are still available for $2,500+:
There are several specs I have thrown out there that need to be corrected. (Please keep in mind most forum threads are a "work in progress" and this thread is no different.)
So any numbers I may have used incorrectly have come from my review of outdated materials still floating around out there on the internet. Sorry about that. So BobC is right to correct the record.
I should have been more clear. Apparently, Winnebago stopped putting these R-22 Coleman Mach 65xx-xxx (2-Ton) Basement AC in their RVs around 2010. Alpha and Newmar also used basement ACs, but I do not know when they stopped.
I think this change from basement ac to roof top ac came about because Colman stopped making R-22 (in 2010) and there was no replacement for many years.
Maybe now that Coleman is making R-134 type (2-Ton) Basement ACs, I suppose it's possible the basement AC can make a come back, but I doubt it.
In fact, I just found this: "A number of common refrigerants, including R134a, R410A and R407C, will be banned from use in new chillers in the USA from January 1, 2024."
EFFICIENCY
To compensate for the loss in R-22 to R-134a "efficiency," I think this is why they increased the size of the AC as measured in BTUs, but I may not be correct?
For example: Since R-22 is more efficient than R-134, I think our older 6535 Colman's used two 12,000BTU type compressors. And since each "Ton" was commonly referred to as 12,000BTU, that would imply our 2-Ton 6535 model was rated at 24,000BTU. However, I can't find any mention of that spec anywhere in the old 6535 literature.
Fast forward to today, we can see on the 46515-811 "2-Ton" spec sheet that this compressor runs on R-134 and has two 13,400BTU rated compressor, but they still call it a "2-Ton" Basement AC.
Note: See pictures below. For the same part number they are advertising different BTUs. So there has to be a good explanation for this.
So my guess is that you can swap your old #6535 "2-Ton" that runs on R-22 for a new 46515-811 "2-Ton" that runs on R-134, but your current draw will be slightly higher. (Compare data sheets.) ...But with a "Poor Man's Hard Start Kit" maybe this issue can be mitigated? (TBD) If not, then the EasyStart is the best way to go (always) if you don't mind the $750 price tag for two of these devices.
This may or may not matter if you have a 10,000W/8000W Onan Generator, I'm guessing us 7.5K Onan QD owner may have some problems with restarts on a hot day due to "In-rush" start current as I have discussed in previous threads.(TBD)
The good news is that it now appears you can buy a new "2-Ton" basement in the sub $3000 range... when for a period of time these things were going for above $10,000.
$3,000 is still a lot for an AC, when you can service yours completely... like Journey Cat is doing for ???? (Hopefully, Journey Cat will share his total bill and where to buy the cheapest, quality parts with us after he completes his Basement AC overhaul?)
I've read many posts where some have paid $800 to a $1,000 or more to get their's repaired only for the repairs to be unsuccessful or a money pit. Personally, I'd rather spend the money for a DIY replacement if DIY repair isn't working.
__________________
Bob C
2002 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
Workhorse Chassis
Im on hold with the Christmas deliveries . Waiting for the Relays and run Caps .
Although I've been following your wealth of information .
Id like to say that my 6537 . Does has insulation in the indoor side of the unit .
And the back panel of the unit is removable to ease in the removal of the out door blower .
JourneyCat: Is there anything you think can be done inside the box that would reduce noise?
For example: Do you think using some peel'n stick floor barrier like material surrounding the out door and indoor blower housing is worth trying or overkill?
...I certainly think if you lined the 2 blower housing and the lid and the sides that would have to help make a difference in noise and better cooling.
* Note: I read some where the compressor is cooled internally and not by the incoming air.
$21 on Amazon is the Butyl Sound Deadening Material that will stick real good, but I think the reflective stuff in the $50 range maybe better since it will not allow mold to grow on it. https://www.amazon.com/Noico-Deadeni...%2C295&sr=8-20
Im sure it would help ! My unit was not very noisy . Im hopeing it gets more quiet with the two new plastic blower wheels & bearings .
I'll post a pic of mine . Next time I un cover it .
When I removed my Ohan gen . The front insulation was trash . I cut to shape that silver cardboard insulation they use in homes . One can buy in Home Depot
But you would have to use a glue or caulking to hold it in place .
JourneyCat: ...Right. That's why I think the Butyl sticky stuff will kill vibration better than hard foam insulation. Also, on the evaporator (cold side) you might have moisture in that area so butyl with a metal reflector barrier maybe better.
The condenser side gets moisture-condensation too, and I know from living in Hawaii anytime you have air moving between two temperatures... mold can grow... to porous materials, and rubber, but not on metal.
So that's why I don't know if FLEX SEAL would be a good choice or not? ...Does Flex Seal say it's mildew resistant?
PLASTIC BLOWER WHEELS
Noise from those 2 blower wheels has to be the equivalent of 50 small propellers cutting thru the wind.
So a clean plastic leading edge fan blade, that does or does not flex (I don't know which would be better) might indeed reduce the noise better than that old oxidize metal blower propeller you are going to replace.
I read your amps should be less too... or was that you who said this? ...Plus the sealed bearing should be better when it comes to reduced drag too, but not as much as a clean propeller edge!
METAL CONDUCTS
All energy is considered "heat energy" and metal conducts better anything. (Wood... not at all. Hence a great insulator, but wood can rot.)
On the subject of metal ducts: When I bought my RV 5 years ago, one of the things I did to improve my basement ac cooling efficiency was to spray Flex Seal all around the external duct area in the rear cap I could get to thru my engine compartment.
Note: I have a side radiator so this makes a difference. However, with your basement AC off the rails, you should be able to get to this area quite easily, I would guess?
Anyway, I sprayed 3 cans of Flex Seal in this area and then let it dry and the next day I covered the duct and Flex Seal with Butyl METAL Tape... which you can only buy a Walmart of all places. (Not HD or Lowe's.) It's made by DUCK and it use to be $6/roll. Now it's $9/roll I think and you need 2 rolls.
Check out the pictures below. Winnegago should have insulated these rear ducts when they have the rear cap off, but those Cheap Bastards are just cheap! ..And all that exposed metal is lost cooling efficiency that says "cheap" all over it! Plus they used cheap duct tape which has been known to split open and this is why some owners complain about their basement AC not cooling well.
IT'S NOT THE 2-TON BASEMENT AC... IT'S THE AIR LEAKING IN OR OUT OF THOSE METAL DUCTS!!!
==> I'm not kidding. After I insulated this rear cap duct, I now enjoy better cooling inside my RV and I highly recommend everyone do this.
Note: That 90-elbow duct in the picture below is the OEM duct and you can see the crack in the seam.
What I did not do, but I recommend everyone do before you Flex Seal and tape off your 90-Degree duct, is to tape-off the screws heads that attach the rear duct to the basement ac. Because you will need to get to these whenever you need to pull the AC from the frame to replace the Overload Device or the compressor.
And if you take a look at that last picture... that's me using a broom to shove water heater blanket insulation (with a plastic backing)up into the taillight hole so I can push it up to the duct area, because by now you know I believe in overthinking everything!
...But in my defense, I would like to say: "It's not "Overkill" if it works!"
And you may laugh, but I may have to coolest inside air in the land!
Now JourneyCat may claim to have the quietest coach in the Winnebago fleet if he chooses to insulate the **** out of the inside box. We shall see!
PS
That is not me in the picture with the rear cap off. And I think I borrowed this shot from "Chaos Leaves Town" who did a good job explaining how he overhauled his basement AC. Then "Dunner" killed-it in his post. And JourneyCat has his thread working for the latest snap-shot on how to overhaul a basement AC.
Thanks to everyone who motivated me. So that when I have to pull my AC I will know what to do.
...And don't forget to try the "Poor Man's Hard Start Kit" approach I articulated in the thread:
* Just $21 for two 135uF-162uF Start Capacitors and you are good to go.
* Keep your old WSX7 Motor Starter or replace with new if yours show any signs of distress and/or you know you have a lot of wear on them. Note: The PTC-Relay inside the WSX7 will never wear out over time. It's a semiconductor (bi-metal switch) that wears out due to heat and a lot of use over 5-10 years, but can fail in much less time if exposed to low supply voltage conditions or brownouts!
Also, I do NOT know where you can buy a WSX7 for cheap. They cost in the $35-$40 each range and you need two.
* And definitely replace your two Compressor Relays (#1460-1131 aka #T92P7D22-12) after 10 years of average use.[/COLOR]
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