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Old 11-24-2012, 06:20 PM   #41
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Check AIR temp at return air plennum and at first supply ceiling register. You can't use a thermal "gun" as in won't be accurate. Use an A/C thermometer. a 20* difference is the spec. If the temp is within spec you could look at Quote

i have always used the thermal gun. Can you explain why it isnt accurate.

My basement air does a great job, of course a 34 footer is much smaller.

Thanks
The thermal guns read a "cone" temp. That is to say that if the gun is say 2 feet from what you are "shooting" then the temp is an average of temps in a circle. The diameter of the circle varies. In the case of ceiling registers you will get an average of temps including the ceiling, duct and register materials. The 20* differential is air temps and thermal "guns" display temps of objects. At least that's the way it has been explained to me.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:32 PM   #42
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I think if the gas heat is running you're using propane?

Our two roof heat pumps will shut down and then automatically turn on the furnace if it gets too cold. That does use propane (gas).
Mr D.........maybe it just escaped you or you didn't read the preceding posts but, my reply that you quoted was answering a specific question.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:51 PM   #43
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I often wonder how much Polution goes into the air from the burning of coal to produce electricity;;; ??? but that is OK couse I only have to turn on my Heat pump, and let someone else worry about the polution that is going into the inviroment;; Why am I so shellow minded ; and do not think of other People;; MY HOW STUPID?NERROW MINDED OF ME;; couse I need to think of ME..;; I could use propane and help clean up the World;;
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:56 PM   #44
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I often wonder how much Polution goes into the air from the burning of coal to produce electricity;;; ???
Since you asked: "In 2004, U.S. coal-fired power plants produced 2,154.6 million tons of CO2 – 35.8% of total U.S. CO2 emissions, and 8.0% of total world CO2 emissions." In 2012 we are generating 38% of our electricity with coal, down from a peak in 1988 of 57%.

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I could use propane and help clean up the World;;
You might consider the effects of fracking to get the propane from the earth, the jury is still out on the long term harm this process holds for the aquifers in the areas this is being used. Not to mention that coal, wood, propane, petroleum, it's all carbon based FOSSIL fuel that releases greenhouse gases into the environment. Even my fellow Americans are finally recognizing climate change as a real issue.

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Why am I so shellow minded ; and do not think of other People;; MY HOW STUPID?NERROW MINDED OF ME;; couse I need to think of ME..;; Polution (pollution) inviroment (environment) couse (???)
Don't put yourself down, you might be 'shellow minded' or 'nerrow minded,' but you sure don't lack imagination!

'Anyone who can only think of one way to spell a word obviously lacks imagination.'

When folks talk about heat pumps being more efficient that LP, they are talking about COST SAVINGS to themselves. Most campsites (short term) provide unmetered electric power as part of the site rental, while the RV owner must pay for LP and and drive to a station to purchase it.
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Old 11-25-2012, 07:59 AM   #45
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I have a 2004 Journey 39K and have had NO problems with the basement air. The problem I have is the thermostat letting the unit run until the rig is like a refrigerator. Air and heat pump work great. Hope you are as lucky.
Evaluating your thermostat location might help. Ensure the ventilation / airflow around the thermostat is representative of the area where you spend most of your time in the coach. If it isn't, you might consider upgrading your thermostat to the TrueAir model with the remote thermostat. The remote thermostat replaces the one inside the unit and you can locate it in the main living area.

You may already have a remote thermostat. If you do, evaluate its location. In some models Winnebago located the remote thermostats very high on the wall. The temp near the roof is often much warmer than at seated height and the AC will run until it is too cold for comfort where you are. Relocating the thermostat down the wall may help.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:20 AM   #46
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Our basement air has functioned flawlessly for 2.5 years and 30K miles in a wide variety of temperatures all over the country. I consider it one of the very best features of our Winnebago. That said, we do have to be smart about our thermal exposure. In over 100 deg temperatures, with full sun exposure and no awnings deployed we will not achieve less than 75 degrees inside the coach.

After purchasing the coach, we installed window awnings for all the side windows and use custom sun screens for the big front and side cockpit windows. That makes a HUGE difference. Putting the rear of the coach facing south is also important if other natural shade isn't available.

Based on my experience, IF I was going to spend a lot of time in 100% sun exposure and above 95 degrees / high humidity, I would consider adding a small supplemental roof air unit.

In our previous coach (Georgie Boy Landau) we had two roof air conditioners. They were VERY loud and didn't distribute the cool air very well. We much prefer the basement air as it is much quieter inside the coach and the residential style distribution system makes for a very comfortable environment.

It is also very nice not having condensate water running off the roof. I wouldn't even consider a coach with roof air units unless they included condensate drains.

We love the seamless integration of the heat pump / propane furnace. We just leave it in ELEC heat and the propane furnace only runs when the heat pump is out of its effective range.

I also like that changing the filter is very easy and we can use standard residential style air filters.

One small disadvantage is the noise signature outside the coach. The basement air unit is located on the curb side and can be a little irritating when sitting outside. On the other hand, when it is warm enough to need the AC, we usually aren't spending a lot of time outside. If Winnebago had put the AC unit on the street side it would have been better.

By the way, I asked a Winnebago marketing director about Winnebago's move to roof air in 2011 and later models. He said it was necessary in the diesel models (Journey / Tour) to make room for the EPA 2010 exhaust treatment systems. That additional piping takes up the space formerly used by the basement air unit. They did not want to move away from the basement air product because it was a strong selling point that was very popular with customers. He said they considered staying with basement air in the gas models but the only model with it was the Adventurer and they couldn't justify the supply line side for just one model of coach. He assured me that Winnebago would continue to support their product line, including the basement air units, throughout their life expectancy.
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Old 11-25-2012, 08:32 AM   #47
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QUOTE: One small disadvantage is the noise signature outside the coach. The basement air unit is located on the curb side and can be a little irritating when sitting outside. On the other hand, when it is warm enough to need the AC, we usually aren't spending a lot of time outside. If Winnebago had put the AC unit on the street side it would have been better. QUOTE END

RVP/Airexcel makes a plastic squirrel cage blower to replace the ID blower cage that significantly reduces the noise signature outside. The inside noise is a little less but not much. 2010's may already have the plastic blower wheel but if not it's a worthwhile exchange.
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:44 AM   #48
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QUOTE: One small disadvantage is the noise signature outside the coach. The basement air unit is located on the curb side and can be a little irritating when sitting outside. On the other hand, when it is warm enough to need the AC, we usually aren't spending a lot of time outside. If Winnebago had put the AC unit on the street side it would have been better. QUOTE END

RVP/Airexcel makes a plastic squirrel cage blower to replace the ID blower cage that significantly reduces the noise signature outside. The inside noise is a little less but not much. 2010's may already have the plastic blower wheel but if not it's a worthwhile exchange.
Hi KIX,
Thanks for the great suggestion. One question. What's an "ID" blower cage?
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Old 11-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #49
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Hi KIX,
Thanks for the great suggestion. One question. What's an "ID" blower cage?
Within the unit there are two different blower motors and blower wheels. The OD is the out door fan and the ID is the in door fan. The ID blower cage is the "squirrel cage" blower wheel that turns on the motor shaft. (Actually the motor shaft turns the wheel)
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:12 PM   #50
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We Own an Ultimate, The air is the best Part of the outstanding coach. The most inportant thing to remember i Everything has its limites; Just because the spedo reads 110 MPH does not mean it is to be driven that speed.... OK then someone says Well it was only 92 degrees outside and we had the air turned down to a comfortable 72 degrees And it would not take it that cool.. .. Well friend IT AIN'T gonna happen;; If you want it to get that cool. On a 40 foot dark paint, Exterior. You will need 3or5 Coleman Airs/worts on the roof.. Then you have a noise issue in the coach. We have been there. In our 7 coaches; Basement air is The best units built. It's to bad they are going away; Which had nothing to do with there performance;;; I have also encountered some IDIOTS that Think they could heat there coach with the Basement air.. Why don't they just turn on there furnace, IT is made to heat the coach;;, I am allways amazed, how Few people use there Brains.. Life is good. But to short;
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When we were Snowmobiling and there is snow on the roof of the motorhome, we would go riding come back 4 hours later and my friend (the IDIOT) would leave the basement air on to thy and heat the coach; Please I was not Intended to Intimadate a poster;; Youall Know better;;
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I often wonder how much Polution goes into the air from the burning of coal to produce electricity;;; ??? but that is OK couse I only have to turn on my Heat pump, and let someone else worry about the polution that is going into the inviroment;; Why am I so shellow minded ; and do not think of other People;; MY HOW STUPID?NERROW MINDED OF ME;; couse I need to think of ME..;; I could use propane and help clean up the World;;
Have you ever taken the time to read your posts? They really come across as being quite ignorant and unintelligent. Spel cheker and grammer cheker shud be ur best frend!! I have read a number of your posts in a number of different threads and they all seem to be the same: designed to inflame topics and create drama. Why is that necessary? You also need to learn what a SEMICOLON is for!

Now back on topic, I am new to Motorhomes. My 05 Journey is my first and I have only owned it for one week. So I haven't been able to use the A/C unit yet. We did however use the furnace and it worked quite well. Sorry to tell you Bachler but we were dry camping so we used propane. And (OH MY GOSH) I actually started the generator at the same time to charge the batteries and make dinner. Shame on us for polluting with not only propane but also diesel. Before we purchased our unit, I was warned about the basement air unit and that it had some "issues". Well it happened that that Journey was in our price range and most other things seemed to be good. Our travel trailer had roof air of course and it was only 23', but it was ducted through the ceiling and cooled the trailer really well. I am just hoping(praying)the basement air works well for us. I guess I will have to wait till next year to see.
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #51
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Have you ever taken the time to read your posts? They really come across as being quite ignorant and unintelligent. Spel cheker and grammer cheker shud be ur best frend!! I have read a number of your posts in a number of different threads and they all seem to be the same: designed to inflame topics and create drama. Why is that necessary? You also need to learn what a SEMICOLON is for!

Now back on topic, I am new to Motorhomes. My 05 Journey is my first and I have only owned it for one week. So I haven't been able to use the A/C unit yet. We did however use the furnace and it worked quite well. Sorry to tell you Bachler but we were dry camping so we used propane. And (OH MY GOSH) I actually started the generator at the same time to charge the batteries and make dinner. Shame on us for polluting with not only propane but also diesel. Before we purchased our unit, I was warned about the basement air unit and that it had some "issues". Well it happened that that Journey was in our price range and most other things seemed to be good. Our travel trailer had roof air of course and it was only 23', but it was ducted through the ceiling and cooled the trailer really well. I am just hoping(praying)the basement air works well for us. I guess I will have to wait till next year to see.
;;;; Ducenut;; Your posting would better spent addressing the subject at hand. Rather then trying to be The Teacher And Judge;; On other posters; Some person once said. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH;;.. 2 coaches Basement air it has worked as it should.. Basement air is not for everyone...
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:07 AM   #52
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Within the unit there are two different blower motors and blower wheels. The OD is the out door fan and the ID is the in door fan. The ID blower cage is the "squirrel cage" blower wheel that turns on the motor shaft. (Actually the motor shaft turns the wheel)
Hey Kix, I think the noise comes from the OD (outside) blower wheel. We just replaced our OD motor and the squirrel cage with the plastic upgrade p/n 1472-1161 from RVP. I was amazed how much more quiet it is. After replacing it I had to get closer to make sure it was running when sitting outside by the entrance door. Of course my hearing isn't what it used to be.

BTW an RV service tech I talked to was very concerned about me being able to purchase parts directly from RVP. He said he didn't know they sold "retail" parts direct and it should have gone through a licensed distributor. In other words I cut into their profit. He was nice enough about it and I asked he didn't burn the guy at RVP I bought them from because he may have thought I was a repair tech or something since I knew exactly what we needed and had the part numbers. After about the fourth time DW and I removed the unit we are becoming DIY experts on the darn thing.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #53
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While I am thinking about it here is so more info from what we learned about our basement air.

The evaporator and condenser coils really need to be cleaned every few years. This is a giant PIA because the unit will need to be at least part way out to remove the top and get to the back. While it is out it will be a good time to check the foam strips on both the return and duct going in. Also check to see if the duct going up into the rear cap is split at the seam like ours was. Both blower wheel motors have a carrier bearing at the end of the shaft with a port to oil them. A few drops there can save a disaster later. We found out the hard way there were two small yellow caps on the blower motor itself you can pull to lube the internal bearing too. The inner one is almost impossible to see as it is inside the squirrel cage fan. Ours had seized but after replacing the motor I gave the inner one on the old motor a couple shots of WD40 and it freed up. Possibly could have just lubed it and saved the cost of the new motor but we feel better with the new one.

So far we have had service valves for the freon installed, a new thermostat, repaired the split duct, cleaned everything and replaced the outside blower wheel and motor. With the exception of the freon all of this was done by us saving who knows what on labor. We are still hundreds into it it but much cheaper than a replacement or going to roof a/c. Would we buy another unit with basement a/c? We would have to think really hard about it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:16 AM   #54
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[QUOTE=HD4Mark;1382800]Hey Kix, I think the noise comes from the OD (outside) blower wheel. We just replaced our OD motor and the squirrel cage with the plastic upgrade p/n 1472-1161 from RVP. I was amazed how much more quiet it is. After replacing it I had to get closer to make sure it was running when sitting outside by the entrance door. Of course my hearing isn't what it used to be./QUOTE]

Hi Mark, You are correct about the OD fan being noisy. However, when I replaced the ID blower wheel a couple of years ago the replacement was a plastic wheel. That change made a big difference in noise level. My OD fan wheel is still the metal OEM one. I was not aware that RVP made a plastic wheel for the OD fan until you mentioned it here. I've had ours out for service several times too
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:27 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=HD4Mark;1382800]Hey Kix, I think the noise comes from the OD (outside) blower wheel. We just replaced our OD motor and the squirrel cage with the plastic upgrade p/n 1472-1161 from RVP.[QUOTE]

Thanks again for that tip.....just ordered one.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:15 AM   #56
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I think that heat pumps work good in the south or the south west where the average winter temp is 40 degrees , I would not recommend heat pumps in the north without supplemental heat it will not keep up. And not nearly as good as gas heat.

But heat pumps are the most cost saving way to go with a mild winter in the south.


About the thermal IR heat gun it is not a guide to go by as far as space temp. It just reads air temp. A thermostat is the most accurate way to read space temp. My IR heat gun shoots two IR lasers and it reads an average temp. Between the two lasers it is more accurate than one IR laser.

Some people like or don't like basement air, I think that if the basement air unit is sized correctly with slides out in the hottest part of summer and that A/C unit is tuned up and has a good freon charge and clean coils it can work as well as rooftop units, sometimes people want to say that there basement air is not keeping up because of the way that it is set up, there might be other problems like A/C not working at 100% causing it not to keep cool under full load.

I think that liquid zone fracting is the most cost efficient way to obtain oil and gas reserves to the surface, and don't believe that is associated with the ozone depletion .

Happy RVing James
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:55 PM   #57
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We suffered through the first four years with basement air in our 2006 Voyage 35A, and then I installed a 13.5k High Efficiency Brisk air roof unit in place of the Fantastic Vent. Best thing we have ever done and wish we had done this sooner. The roof air alone cools our unit better and faster than with both basement air compressors.

By the way, up until 2010, each basement air compressor was only worth 12,000 BTU. So the total capacity of the basement air was only 24k. Just not enough capacity to cool larger 3 or 4 slide coaches (like ours).

Oh....all three airs on ours runs with the 5500 Onan, and 50 amp service....no more having to face the unit "the right way" or make our unit a cave. :-)
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:56 AM   #58
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I installed a 13.5k High Efficiency Brisk air roof unit in place of the Fantastic Vent
How did you wire the new air to 120v? ...what circuit did you tie into, and where?
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #59
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How did you wire the new air to 120v? ...what circuit did you tie into, and where?

I added a roof air on my Journey. After removing the fantastic fan I capped of the 12 volt wires that ran the fan. On my Journey about 12 inches aft of the vent is a 12 volt light fixture and to the passenger side of that fixture is a control panel with water level gauges, generator control, heat & basement air controls, etc. I ran wire from the vent opening to the 12 volt light fixture opening then to the wall above the control panel. To make a hole in the insulation I used a length of 1/4 inch dowel rod. After I made the hole I taped a string to the dowel rod and pushed it through the hole. Removed the rod and taped the romex to the string and pulled the wire through the hole. Did the same from the light fixture to the panel area. I was able to run the romex to the basement area of the RV and across to the shore power locker on the drivers side. I put a male connector at the end of that romex. I went inside to the circuit breaker box and added another circuit breaker and ran romex to the basement power center. I put a female connector (in a box attached to the wall) and plugged in the "cord" from the air conditioner. So that roof air conditioner will run off shore power or the generator when plugged into that box. But if I'm on 30 amp shore power I can unplug the "cord" from the female box and run a separate heavy duty power cord to the park power pedestal if need be. This seems to work well.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:26 PM   #60
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2004 Winnebago journey,my basement air works great,much better than 2 roof units ,with the possible leaks,and much more noise.
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