Upgrading GVWR/GAWR on Ford E350 DRW

[dougmcc1]

My Minnie Winnie 22M (built on Ford E350 DRW chassis) is already at GVWR capacity even without towing anything. I'm solo and dont have much stuff so getting the weight down is difficult. It doesnt seem like the E350 offers room for toy hauling.

So the other option would be to upgrade the chassis. Is it even possible to do this without basically turning the E350 into a E450?

[bigb]

Originally Posted by dougmcc1

My Minnie Winnie 22M (built on Ford E350 DRW chassis) is already at GVWR capacity even without towing anything. I'm solo and dont have much stuff so getting the weight down is difficult. It doesnt seem like the E350 offers room for toy hauling.

So the other option would be to upgrade the chassis. Is it even possible to do this without basically turning the E350 into a E450?

Your GVWR will only affect what you can tow in the tongue weight, it is your GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) that will tell you the total weight allowed of motorhome and towed. If you flat tow a vehicle you only need to add the weight of the towing equipment that is on the coach to your payload, not the weight of the vehicle/trailer. What is your total weight now vs your GVWR and what is your GCVWR? Many times if you flat tow a small car you can put some of your belongings in the car to lighten up the payload on the MH. We have a very small payload as well but it's doable since we don't full time.

[dougmcc1]

This is the best I could find:
https://device.report/m/af2a6025836b...20f7c866c3.pdf

It shows 18,500 GCWR for the E-350 Super Duty Cutaway DRW with the 6.8L V10/6R140 which is what I have.

The rear axle has a GAWR of 7500 lbs. The scales show I have 7,800 lbs on that axle (so the GAWR is already exceeded on the rear axle).

With the current total GVWR at 11,820 lbs, subtracted from the GCWR of 18,500 lbs, can I really tow another 6,680 lbs even though the GAWR of the rear axle is already at its limit?

[Eagle5]

Hi Dougmcc1,
Yes, the 22M with the V-10 engines using the E-350 frame is at the limits of its cargo load capacity. As you state, 11,500 Lb is the GVWR. My E-450 with a GVWR of 14,500 has these differences:

1. ¼" larger diameter ring gear
2. thicker frame
3. heavier springs
4. higher damping-rate shocks
5. stiffer anti-sway bars

Some things are the same, such as:

1. tires
2. wheels
3. brakes
4. engine
5. transmission

So, there are a couple of things you can do to help:

1. Keep the tires at the recommended inflation pressure for the E-450, which is 75 psi in the front and 80 psi in the back
2. Add a set of rear air bags

When Ford made the switch to the Godzilla motor, they also increased the GVWR for the E-350 to 12,500 pounds. For these newer models, the E-450 GVWR remained the same at 14,500 pounds.
Welcome to the forum.
Eagle5

[l1v3fr33ord1]

dougmcc1-

According to the 2020 Minnie Winnie brochure (link here):

GCWR 18,500 pounds
GVWR 11,500 pounds

for the E350-based models. Assuming your coach weight is at or below the GVWR,

GCWR - GVWR = 7,000 pounds

If your coach weight is above the GVWR, or either of the axle weights is above its rating, your first order of business is to reduce the weight in the coach until it does not exceed its GVWR or GAWRs.

Not in the brochure, but on a label in your coach, are the ratings for the trailer hitch. This should list both the gross rating and the tongue weight rating. What does that label say? The gross hitch rating may be less than 7,000 pounds.

Flat-towing does not add or subtract a significant load on the axles; a trailer does. Do you want to tow flat, or tow a trailer?

[dougmcc1]

Eagle5 - Thanks so much for breaking out those differences between the E350 and E450 chassis. If by some miracle I can get the GVWR 500 lbs under its limit so that I can go the motorcycle carrier route, I'll look into cost/benefit of the upgradeable things. Your list is a perfect reference for that.

l1v3fr33ord1 - Ah, good to know towing is still an option if I can't go the motorcycle carrier route! The current hitch is a class IV. The label on it shows it does support up to 7500 lbs towing and 500 lbs vertical tongue weight.

For any other current/future readers also wanting to go the motorcycle carrier route instead of towing:

Even if I get 500 lbs under the GVWR limit in order to accommodate the motorcycle carrier (https://www.amazon.com/MotoTote-MTX-.../dp/B00XES7K2G) and bike (https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motor...-edition-parts) - 66 lbs and 420 lbs respectively - its too close for comfort for me (500 lbs - 486 lbs = only 14 lbs margin). It could be a conservative hitch rating and might be fine, but I visited a chassis shop for recommendations anyway. One recommendation was to weld the hitch extender to the frame for more support. And the other recommendation was to upgrade the hitch to this one for additional peace of mind: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E243FW

Other than cost, I dont see any downside to welding the hitch extender and upgrading the hitch. It would be overkill for towing a bike which seems to be the most likely scenario in my case, but it keeps the motorcycle carrier option in play if I can get the GVWR down. Some of the upgrades for Eagle5's list may be worth considering as well in order to be on the safe side. Or just get an E450 build

[l1v3fr33ord1]

dougmcc1-

Other than cost, I dont see any downside to welding the hitch extender and upgrading the hitch. It would be overkill for towing a bike which seems to be the most likely scenario in my case, but it keeps the motorcycle carrier option in play if I can get the GVWR down.

Even if you strengthen the structure and install a hitch with a higher rating you're not out of the woods with the motorcycle carrier option.

A rear-attached motorcycle carrier adds weight to the rear axle- and you say it already exceed its rating by 300 pounds. As I remember, a vertical load behind the rear axle actually increases the axle load by an amount higher than the load. For instance, 500 pounds on the rear hitch could increase rear axle load by 1,000 pounds. You should avoid running with axle loads over their ratings.

[Eagle5]

Originally Posted by dougmcc1

Eagle5 - Thanks so much for breaking out those differences between the E350 and E450 chassis. If by some miracle I can get the GVWR 500 lbs under its limit so that I can go the motorcycle carrier route, I'll look into cost/benefit of the upgradeable things. Your list is a perfect reference for that.

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

dougmcc1-
A rear-attached motorcycle carrier adds weight to the rear axle- and you say it already exceed its rating by 300 pounds. As I remember, a vertical load behind the rear axle actually increases the axle load by an amount higher than the load.

Hi Dougmcc1 & l1v3fr33ord1,

Here is my Dualsport Motorcycle Carrier for a Minnie Winnie 22M

... for the M22:

Wheelbase = 158"
Back edge of rear bumper to the centerline of the rear wheel = 98"
Load applied at the back edge of the rear bumper = 500 Lb

Summation of vertical forces around the front axle = Zero
0 = ((X Lb at the rear axle)×(158")) - (500 Lb × (98"+158"))
X = 810 Lb

So, 500 pounds at the rear bumper adds 810 pounds to the rear axle.

Merry Christmas, Eagle5

[rgvtexan]

An aggressive lawyer may tell you that you cannot increase the GVWR!

[Ray,IN]

Sadly it is what it is, a class C MH with the nearly same weights for UVW and GVWR.



There are companies that specialize in increasing GVWR for HDT's, but it is not inexpensive. They are licensed by USDOT to perform this and replace the OEM Federal Certification label with updated ratings. They basically replace/rebuild all the chassis and components. IMO it would be less expensive to sell this MH and buy what you need.
GVWR is based on the weakest components, in no order this might be; tires, rims, brakes axles, suspension system, steering components, frame rail thickness and/or size,
Most gas powered motor homes have the frame extended before the coach body in built on the frame. This is also why the trailer hitch has lower ratings than a MH without an extended frame.