tow chain rating

Steve77 · 02-11-2021, 08:52 AM

So my 2021 2301BHS came with tow chains rated for 3900lbs each and no way to cross the chains. The trailer GVWR is 8,800 lbs.

Is the thinking since there is no way to cross the chains theoretically they would have identical stress on them in the event of a hitch failure? That makes me a little uncomfortable, and even if that is how it works....together they are shy of the GVWR. No matter how symmetrical each chain is, it seems like there would be too many variables involved (hook placement on hitch, attachment point centered on on trailer, not in a turn) to get them as precise as would be needed to actually both catch at the exact same time. All that aside you still have the problem of not crossed chains....

I have always crossed chains and had chains/hooks that were each rated for the weight of the trailer. This is the heaviest trailer I have ever towed though, so maybe I am missing something?

I actually went down a rabbit hole with tow hooks not fitting my hitch. I have ordered so many hooks and they are either way too big or just to small to fit my hitch. None are rated for 9000 lbs though.

Steve77 · 02-11-2021, 10:19 AM

I may be confusing the working load limit with the break strength. So, these 3900 lb chains would be a break strength of 11,700 which should be good.

So that solves that. But what about not being able to cross the chains?

backtrack15 · 02-11-2021, 10:35 AM

The centralized attachment of the chains did seem a bit odd to me at delivery. I'd expect them to be mounted farther apart on the trailer tongue. I still "cross" them, although admittedly it is a weak cross being that the two are adjacent at one end. I'll have to take a more detailed look at the geometry next time I visit the trailer.

Steve77 · 02-11-2021, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backtrack15

The centralized attachment of the chains did seem a bit odd to me at delivery. I'd expect them to be mounted farther apart on the trailer tongue. I still "cross" them, although admittedly it is a weak cross being that the two are adjacent at one end. I'll have to take a more detailed look at the geometry next time I visit the trailer.

The only thing I can come up with is maybe it has something to do with the distance the axels are from the hitch. If the axels were 50 feet from the hitch, the angle would be much less steep if it broke loose than say, if the axels were 10 feet from the hitch. So maybe the axels are far enough away the chains should catch it from digging into the pavement and there is nothing to worry about.

Morich · 02-11-2021, 02:30 PM

I like what you are doing and fully agree that we would like the safety chains to work when a "worst case" happens but from my experience, I'm not sure we can fully expect the best results from any chain we use as it may be how the chain is attached that is the weak point.

My only breakaway was on a much smaller trailer, just a 4X 8 utility trailer that we had used to haul a small load of wood. We left after dumping the wood and got to the first rough bridge, when the two inch ball mount came out of the receiver on the car!
Something happened to the locking pin and big cotter key!

Running 65-70 on interstate but low traffic, I heard a pop as the hitch separated and looked back to see the top of the trailer bed vertical rather than horizontal. Almost immediately, I heard the first chain break and the trailer went out of sight to the left and the other chain popped as well but I had no time to watch the trailer as a truck was passing me!
It took a bit to get out of traffic, to a turn around and back to what I assumed was an accident scene but when we got there, we could not find anything going on and no trailer. Being after dark, the whole thing was a nightmare with me thinking the trailer might be headed into St. Louis stuck in the front of a Peterbuilt!

We finally spotted tracks going off the left side and into weeds taller than my head.
After following the path through the weds, we found the trailer setting upright and quite calm except the trailer chains had broken where they were welded to the frame!

Two 5/8 inch chains well welded and a trailer only weighting less than a 1000 pounds but when it was turned sideways, those chains were no good at all !!

I don't think chains will ever stop a trailer runaway if the trailer gets sideways so that it is not the weight but the fact that the trailer suddenly stops and the tow vehicle is still going full bore!
I think of it as the same that happens if we are towing with a chain or cable and let slack get in the chain. It's not the weight but the sudden strain from a sudden jerk!

Steve77 · 02-11-2021, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

I like what you are doing and fully agree that we would like the safety chains to work when a "worst case" happens but from my experience, I'm not sure we can fully expect the best results from any chain we use as it may be how the chain is attached that is the weak point.

My only breakaway was on a much smaller trailer, just a 4X 8 utility trailer that we had used to haul a small load of wood. We left after dumping the wood and got to the first rough bridge, when the two inch ball mount came out of the receiver on the car!
Something happened to the locking pin and big cotter key!

Running 65-70 on interstate but low traffic, I heard a pop as the hitch separated and looked back to see the top of the trailer bed vertical rather than horizontal. Almost immediately, I heard the first chain break and the trailer went out of sight to the left and the other chain popped as well but I had no time to watch the trailer as a truck was passing me!
It took a bit to get out of traffic, to a turn around and back to what I assumed was an accident scene but when we got there, we could not find anything going on and no trailer. Being after dark, the whole thing was a nightmare with me thinking the trailer might be headed into St. Louis stuck in the front of a Peterbuilt!

We finally spotted tracks going off the left side and into weeds taller than my head.
After following the path through the weds, we found the trailer setting upright and quite calm except the trailer chains had broken where they were welded to the frame!

Two 5/8 inch chains well welded and a trailer only weighting less than a 1000 pounds but when it was turned sideways, those chains were no good at all !!

I don't think chains will ever stop a trailer runaway if the trailer gets sideways so that it is not the weight but the fact that the trailer suddenly stops and the tow vehicle is still going full bore!
I think of it as the same that happens if we are towing with a chain or cable and let slack get in the chain. It's not the weight but the sudden strain from a sudden jerk!

Scary!

I know what you are saying, but I like to take any reasonable precaution. Having the chains crossed seems like a no brainer. What is Winnebago saving by doing it this way? $10 max?

I could be wrong but I think there are states where this setup wouldn't be legal. Some states law is to have chains cross, others you cant have the attachment point underneath. So do they change the setup in those states? Seems unlikely. What about when I drive through those states?

Just looking at my chains, the hitch is going to nosedive into the pavement if something fails....and that little loop holding the chains to the trailer is going to grind off almost immediately - so even if the trailer doesn't topple end over end the chains will be off in seconds. Even if my chains were tight I think it would still hit the ground.

Maybe I am missing something just seems super silly and negligent. I think the biggest problem is the chain attachment being underneath.

backtrack15 · 02-11-2021, 04:53 PM

Conceptually, I think the chains are supposed to cross under the coupler. Since they are mounted so close to the coupler, it may make sense that they are adjacent at the mount. Had they been mounted farther back on the tongue, they would also have needed to be farther apart in order to cross under the coupler. Maybe that's the reason? In any case, the length of the chain needs to be correct (enough slack for turning but not much more).

Morich · 02-11-2021, 05:42 PM

What I see is that there will be big time problems if the hitch comes out as there will be enough slack for the front of the trailer to dig into the ground or let the trailer go sideways as you brake. You may not be planning to brake when it happens but it is a natural thing when you feel something that big happen to the back of the truck and once you slow the trailer comes up as far as it can and then goes out to the side.
From there, whether I want it to stay on the truck or not is an open question as it is likely to want to take over driving!

backtrack15 · 02-11-2021, 05:49 PM

It does look like the only way this works is if the driver has the presence of mind to stay on the gas and then slow while using the trailer brakes. That seems somewhat unlikely.

shiook · 02-16-2021, 09:01 AM

If you want to extend the chains so they cross (which they definetely should), go to Tractor Supply and purchase two lengths of high grade chain and a high strength chain coupler. All are rated higher than the trailer chains.

Steve77 · 02-16-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiook

If you want to extend the chains so they cross (which they definetely should), go to Tractor Supply and purchase two lengths of high grade chain and a high strength chain coupler. All are rated higher than the trailer chains.

The issue isn't that the chains aren't long enough, the issue with crossing the chains is there is a single attachment point on trailer for chains. So no cross possible.

1237dmctlc · 02-17-2021, 05:31 PM

I've been told by several friends in law enforcement over the years that its a law that when towing a trailer that the safety chains must be criss-crossed in an event the trailer was to pop off the ball this would support the tongue allowing the driver to somewhat safely pull over. If it wasn't crisscrossed then the tongue of the trailer would drop to the ground and basically disintegrate at that point, endangering others in its path. Ironically several years ago while towing my enclosed trailer to our Florida house after we sold our NE home. I pulled into a gas station for fuel off the NY freeway and a guy filling up next to me pointed out they weren't crossed and he stated it was a big fine. In our haste to leave early that morning I didn't check after my daughter had hooked it up. My fault she didn't know but appreciate that person not only pointing it out but was already correcting it for me. So if they're not long enough its IMHO I'd replace them with ones that are along with the right chain strength recommended for your TT.

Steve77 · 02-17-2021, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1237dmctlc

I've been told by several friends in law enforcement over the years that its a law that when towing a trailer that the safety chains must be criss-crossed in an event the trailer was to pop off the ball this would support the tongue allowing the driver to somewhat safely pull over. If it wasn't crisscrossed then the tongue of the trailer would drop to the ground and basically disintegrate at that point, endangering others in its path. Ironically several years ago while towing my enclosed trailer to our Florida house after we sold our NE home. I pulled into a gas station for fuel off the NY freeway and a guy filling up next to me pointed out they weren't crossed and he stated it was a big fine. In our haste to leave early that morning I didn't check after my daughter had hooked it up. My fault she didn't know but appreciate that person not only pointing it out but was already correcting it for me. So if they're not long enough its IMHO I'd replace them with ones that are along with the right chain strength recommended for your TT.

I know it's against the law in several states... That's why I'm so confused. The issue isn't the length of the chain. The issue is there is only one attachment point for the chains on the trailer. So no matter what you do, there is no cross. It's a V no matter what. Yes you can cross them... But they cross way up by the attachment point at the first link, and you can't tell they are even crossed unless you look up under tounge. No cradle at all... For all intent it's not crossed. Some states laws also say you can't have one attachment spot. Some states laws say you can't have the attachment points on the underside of frame. So there are multiple issues with how this came from the factory and I don't get why they would do it this way. I must be missing something.

Lowdie24 · 02-17-2021, 07:28 PM

HAve you maybe considered relocating them to seperate anchor points on the trailer frame? Pretty straight forward task to weld chains in a better location. As previously mentioned you can buy high quality chain fairly reasonably and a good welder would have them mounted in miniutes.
Quick clean up and a rattle can of good paint and away you go.

My two cents worth....

Steve77 · 02-17-2021, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowdie24

HAve you maybe considered relocating them to seperate anchor points on the trailer frame? Pretty straight forward task to weld chains in a better location. As previously mentioned you can buy high quality chain fairly reasonably and a good welder would have them mounted in miniutes.
Quick clean up and a rattle can of good paint and away you go.

My two cents worth....

I had considered it for sure, but I've also been told never weld chain that needs to hold anything heavy because the heat reduces the chains strength. I considered welding on the brackets to the side and will probably go that route I just don't understand why it is configured this way and don't want to fix something that ain't broke. .

Lowdie24 · 02-17-2021, 07:50 PM

Makes perfect sense to me! As for "Ain't broke.." I would suggest it is already broken. Unfortunatly this looks like yet another example of poor or lazy engineering.

Steve77 · 02-17-2021, 08:51 PM

Lol... Seems so to me too... But on the other hand... These people literally build trailers for a living...for decades. I f***ing don't.

But I don't think moving the attachment points to the sides of the tounge and crossing the chains would even catch the coupler if it broke loose.

I mean, I can just tell by looking at it that it wouldn't. And the breakaway pull has about 4 feet of slack to it... So the brakes wouldn't engage either.

Rick 99037 · 02-19-2021, 10:01 AM

Interesting comments. I'm assuming we are normally talking about something also equipped with equalizers, and they are a strong link between vehicle and trailer, not being mentioned here for some reason, but they hold a trailer in place before the chains would ever be called on for safety.
As to tempering of metal like a tempered chain, tempering involves quenching the hot steel in water or oil. It's about quick cooling. To remove tempering, you reheat, and then cool slowly; which is pretty much what you have happen when you weld a chain onto a trailer tongue. If they quickly sprayed water on the fresh weld, they could add some tempering, but welders don't usually do that for fear they'll crystallize their fresh weld.
I'll say the obvious. There's always a weak link in a safety chain. Every hook or quick link has a rating. Find out what it is. If using a hook, I like ones that have a latch. Understand that the eye where you latch your chain is likely mild steel, so if everything else holds, that will rip through.
This is about mass and inertia; rather than just vehicle weight. A straight-line stop will not likely exceed one G, but in emergencies, like a blowout, fishtail, and trailer then flipped on it's side - who knows? And yes, I've dealt with a wildly fishtailing trailer, that then ended up laying on it's side on the road, but it stayed coupled to the vehicle via ball and equalizer bars. Everything just got twisted.

backtrack15 · 02-19-2021, 10:29 AM

I don't like the current design by BAL. That leads to the question, what would good look like? I've been looking at photos on the web and really haven't found any where I felt the chains would prevent the trailer tongue from hitting the ground unless there was immediate tension in the chains from the truck pulling and/or trailer braking.

Elkman · 02-24-2021, 04:18 PM

For $100 or less a tow parts shop can weld on a second eye/ring so the chains can be used properly. These shops only do this kind of work and know what should be done to fix the problem.

I was towing a trailer with two horses and the person who did the hitch attachment did not lock the clamp in place and it popped up and the hitch came off the ball. Fortunately the truck bumper had a recessed tray area and the hitch stayed inside it and I could safely come to a stop. Without the safety chains the horse trailer would have flipped and killed both horses. Became a true believer in trailer safety after that experience as a teenager.