Sway Issue with 2018 Ford Expedition and 2108DS

[Clemsonfan68]

We just purchased a new Micro Minnie 2108DS, towing with a 2018 Expedition (no tow package, 4x4, standard wheel base, not a max). Blue Ox WDH configured by the dealer. Plenty of horsepower but the Expedition starts to get a wiggle around 60 mph. Anything above 65 is really scary. Turned the Expedition Sway Control off as it was much worse when on. Any suggestions or others having same type issues?

[dougb]

Are you using a weight distributing hitch? That might help keep the Minnie in a straight line behind your Expedition. Not sure that is the problem but worth a thought. Good luck working this out. Sounds very important to find a remedy.

[creativepart]

There are a lot of nuances you need to be aware of.

Is the tongue of the trailer level with the hitch? Is the load in the trailer balanced or more toward the front of the trailer? Do you have bikes on the back of the trailer? Is the tongue weight and trailer load weight withing spec for your Expedition? Are your trailer tires set to max air pressure as labeled on the tire?

You said you have a WDH hitch... does it also offer sway control? Do you know how to properly setup the weight distribution bars?

Have you towed before?

You need to know the answers to all the questions. Do you have anyone that you can turn to to physically look over the situation and help you out? It's tough for us to do this remotely.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Clemsonfan68

We just purchased a new Micro Minnie 2108DS, towing with a 2018 Expedition (no tow package, 4x4, standard wheel base, not a max). Blue Ox WDH configured by the dealer. Plenty of horsepower but the Expedition starts to get a wiggle around 60 mph. Anything above 65 is really scary. Turned the Expedition Sway Control off as it was much worse when on. Any suggestions or others having same type issues?

Another user here had a similar issue and it turned out the WDH was at fault.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3879972

[RoadRunner]

Clemsonfan68,

Congratulations on your new 2108DS, we finished up our third season with our 2108DS and we have enjoyed it a lot.

We also have the Blue Ox Sway Pro that I installed myself, and as creativepart has mentioned, there are many variables to verify. What the best thing to do regarding verifying the trailer / Blue Ox Sway Pro set up is to refer to the Blue Ox installation and troubleshooting. The 750 lb bars work well for the 2108DS and if you have any questions, I will be glad to try to answer them.

With that said, what caught my attention was when you mentioned that your 2018 Expedition starts to “wiggle” at 60 mph and gets scary over 65 mph. This indicates to me that there could be an issue with your Expedition that presents itself while towing. Ford trucks over the years seem to be susceptible to going into “resonance” for various different reasons such as front-end components, tires, etc.

By searching Ford truck death wobble / shimmy you will find a lot of information. Searching I found this thread:
https://www.expeditionforum.com/thre...trailer.41459/
Appears to be the same vehicle as yours with a similar problem and believe it or not it was solved by a PCM (Powertrain Control Module) and TCM (Transmission Control Module) update at the Ford dealership.

Hopefully this information will give you a starting point to sort out your issue.

Brian

[Clemsonfan68]

Yes Blue Ox, installed by the dealer we purchased the RV from. The WDH does have sway control, and was setup on level ground. The Expedition does have a bit of squat, but not as much as I thought it would. We do have most of our trailer cargo pushed to the front of the TT. No bike racks on back of TT. Tires are at max recommended PSI. Weighed this past week at CAT scale, full load in Expedition and TT, sill had 560 lbs to spare. I am going to ask the dealer to revisit the Blue Ox WDH setup, just to double check.

[MicroMinnie]

That expedition is rated for 630lbs tongue without distribution hitch. if you see a drop in the back with the weight distribution hitch installed something is not right. the whole point is to bring it back to where the nose was before hookup. does not sound that is happening.

I’d disconnect WDH sway control too to see how it rides without it as it may be the cause.

[akeagle]

Originally Posted by Clemsonfan68

Yes Blue Ox, installed by the dealer we purchased the RV from. The WDH does have sway control, and was setup on level ground. The Expedition does have a bit of squat, but not as much as I thought it would. We do have most of our trailer cargo pushed to the front of the TT. No bike racks on back of TT. Tires are at max recommended PSI. Weighed this past week at CAT scale, full load in Expedition and TT, sill had 560 lbs to spare. I am going to ask the dealer to revisit the Blue Ox WDH setup, just to double check.

If I remember correctly the tongue weight should be no more than 200 pounds. If your Expedition is squatting you probably need to redistribute your TT cargo to achieve that weight.

Its been around 30 years since we had our TT with WDH. They were well used when we bought them and there were no instructions and the previous owner had no advice to give. So, for us there was a learning curve on how set the system up correctly. The internet and this forum should be able to give you plenty of help with this.

The sway control for our hitch was the friction type and once I tightened it down pretty tight our sway problem disappeared.

[RoadRunner]

Originally Posted by akeagle

If I remember correctly the tongue weight should be no more than 200 pounds. If your Expedition is squatting you probably need to redistribute your TT cargo to achieve that weight.

Its been around 30 years since we had our TT with WDH. They were well used when we bought them and there were no instructions and the previous owner had no advice to give. So, for us there was a learning curve on how set the system up correctly. The internet and this forum should be able to give you plenty of help with this.
The sway control for our hitch was the friction type and once I tightened it down pretty tight our sway problem disappeared.

Whether a weight distribution hitch is being used or not, the number one most important thing is that the tongue weight should be 10-15 percent of gross trailer weight. So, a 2108DS that weighs close to 5000 lbs. loaded should have a tongue weight around 600 lbs. as a guideline.

Also, the OP said that "The Expedition does have a bit of squat, but not as much as I thought it would." which sounds to me that it is just the normal loading of the springs.

As I had mentioned earlier, there are instructions for the Blue Ox Sway Pro that should be referred to so we don’t unintentionally mislead and create additional issues for the OP.

The link to the Blue Ox Sway Pro manual is:
https://www.blueox.com/wp-content/up...5002000-15.pdf

It is true that 30 years ago there was not as much guidance regarding towing as there is today. I learned a valuable lesson about trailer loading when my 1987 GMC ¾ ton pickup was only a couple years old and I was towing a rental skid loader aka Bobcat. Driving to the job it was fine, however when I loaded the skid loader back on to the trailer, with the implements, the machine was about 6 inches to a foot back on the trailer from the way it was loaded before creating less weight on the tongue. I didn’t notice anything different until I got on the highway and that trailer started moving side to side with a greater swing each time until it was crossing back and forth across all three lanes of the interstate with the tires squealing horrendously. By some miracle I didn’t over compensate when the truck was being jerked side to side and was able to keep the truck in the middle of the three-lane highway, though I really thought I was going off the road. The trailer had surge brakes so I could not apply trailer brakes, when the truck slowed to around 25 mph the trailer finally straightened out, I turned down the exit ramp in front of me. As I exited the interstate, I glanced in my mirror and there was, a couple of hundred yards back, three lanes full of cars as far back as I could see. Was I embarrassed but at least no one was hurt and no property was damaged.

Brian

[Clemsonfan68]

Updated info. Today we took the TT back to the dealer. Had master tech drive the Expedition with TT loaded as we would for a normal trip. Sure enough at 70 mph + the ride has a constant wag. Not out of control but very uncomfortable. They took my Blue Ox TrackPro WDH off and installed a Fastway e2 Trunnion WDH. It made no difference, maybe a bit worse. The dealer kept the TT and will put it on a lift to check axles and alignment. They are also going to tow it with a different tow vehicle to see if the problem follows the trailer. They are also going to weigh the trailer tongue to confirm exact weight. I will contact Ford dealer this week about PCM (Powertrain Control Module) and TCM (Transmission Control Module) update (thanks for the info RoadRunner). Not feeling confident we are going to find a fix. Fear I may be stuck with a brand new TT I can't take on adventures. Thanks all for the comments, seeking out each and every suggestion.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Clemsonfan68

Sure enough at 70 mph + the ride has a constant wag. Not out of control but very uncomfortable.

No doubt your trailer tires are limited to 65 mph. I do hope you find a good fix, but I also hope you are not planning on driving at speed like this when towing your trailer.

[Clemsonfan68]

no we will not be traveling at 70+ on normal drives. I normally drive 60-65, but even at those speeds we get wag at times. Just want the option to get up to 70 if I need to pass then get back to my safe speeds.

[MicroMinnie]

They’ll find it. pretty sure of that.

There’s half a dozen things that can cause it, i’m sure this is not the first time they’ve gone through it. could even be a simple as a really bad trailer tire.

Did they try running with a normal hitch ? (remove that extra foot behind the hitch)

Assuming you checked tire pressures on suv.

[Clemsonfan68]

don't know about testing with a normal hitch, but i for sure will ask. I did increase tire pressure on my expedition up to 95% of recommended cold psi.

[RoadRunner]

Clemsonfan68,

You are on the right track, by trying to isolate the issue by determining if it is tow vehicle or trailer initiated. Ideally if the trailer could be towed by a different brand of vehicle with a similar gross vehicle weight, hitch receiver height and the same hitch would be the most conclusive.

Then if it was that the trailer towed well with another vehicle, you would have that information as well as the tongue weight and other specifics before going to the Ford dealership.

By attaching the link to the Expedition forum, I was pointing out that there could be many different issues including issues as abstract as a PCM / TCM update. As I mentioned before you would want the service techs to check everything that could possibly cause / contribute to stability issues such as front end / suspension components, alignment, tires etc. It appears that Ford has an issue with defective leaking struts / shocks, it would be good to check them.

Of course, if the trailer did not tow well with another vehicle then focusing on the alignment, bent axles, tires etc. would be in order.

I did notice that you have the newer TrackPro instead of the SwayPro the manual for the TrackPro is: https://www.blueox.com/wp-content/up..._1051_1351.pdf

Also, I noticed that the 2018 Expedition Towing Guide mentions “Frontal Area Considerations” which is something you might keep in mind to “tweek” the truck / trailer system by lowering the trailer, that might help with the drivability issue especially at highway speeds. https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...ition_Oct5.pdf

Per your picture, the Expedition and the MicroMinnie is a great looking combination and appears to be setup well!

Have faith, there is always a fix to getting a system to work.

Brian

[aaa]

I have been trailering for almost 25 years and I recommend, and I can't say this strongly enough, that you not go faster than 60 mph when towing a trailer. The main reason is that you can't stop as fast so if you suddenly get into trouble with a side wind, traffic stopping, obstacles in the roadway, tire blowouts, weather conditions, …, and you will, you are better able to handle it at 60 than even 65. Also, fuel economy decreases exponentially with speed increases. I have found the trip much less stressful, and, surprisingly, not much difference in travel time. You have to pass fewer vehicles, always a slow and dicey process towing a trailer, and stop less often for gas. I experience the same truckers and passenger passing me repeatedly on freeways because they must have to stop more often for whatever reason. The upshot it is, 60 is safer and fast enough.

[sduff]

If I may add my two sense worth. You might want to look at the tires on tow vehicle. Its possible the tires on the expedition are fine for styling around town but side walls are not handling the TT load up front. My brother had a similar experience with his F150. Changed the tires out and everything was fine.

[PIC]

All above is great advice. But keep it simple. Do not pack weight forward in the TT. Distribute it equally over the TT axle.
Forward weighting will make the tounge heavier and unnecessarily lift the front end of the tow vehicle. Measure the distance of the tow vehicle without the TT attached. Then again with it attached. If the lift creates a higher distance then that could be your problem. I've towed our 2106fbs over 35,000 miles. I use a equalizer and distribution system. But if you overweight or don't distribute correctly you are defeating the purpose and asking for problems. Finally, if you want to tow at 70mph that's your decision. Just remember it may not be you who gets hurt or worse if you can't stop in time. Just something to think about. It's the journey not how fast you get there.

[DEWEY]

Clemsonfan68,

Great looking rig. The dealer towing with another vehicle will eliminate a lot of unnecessary troubleshooting.

Looking at your pic, it looks to me like your a little high on the ball. It may be the perspective, but typically you want to be slightly down on the tongue, IF you cannot achieve a perfectly level attitude. If your rig is tongue high, your TT's center of gravity will be shifted to the rear.

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by DEWEY

Clemsonfan68,

Great looking rig. The dealer towing with another vehicle will eliminate a lot of unnecessary troubleshooting.

Looking at your pic, it looks to me like your a little high on the ball. It may be the perspective, but typically you want to be slightly down on the tongue, IF you cannot achieve a perfectly level attitude. If your rig is tongue high, your TT's center of gravity will be shifted to the rear.

Same reaction to the picture here. Hitch ball appears to be set too high so torsion bars on the hitch can't be set correctly to level the tow vehicle without setting the trailer nose too high. If you put that combination on a 4 corner scale you would likely find that the front end is light due to the lack of proper equalization of the hitch. A good tow shop should have seen that right off and corrected the ball height issue before going any further. The tow vehicle should not have the cat squeezing under a fence stance when the hitch ball is at the correct height and the torsion bars are adjusted properly.

The trailer and hitch when set up properly should not require stability control on the vehicle to make it track straight without swaying. A sway control device on the hitch should not be used to correct improper hitch setup but only used to compensate for sway induced by passing trucks and cross winds.

Ball height along with the angle of the equalizing head needs to be set correctly and the torsion bars set to equalize the load on the tow vehicle even if it requires a stiffer set of torsion bars in order to get it done. I towed a very heavy 36 foot Prowler behind a 1969 Cadillac Sedan DeVille which were known for their wandering and sloppy suspension yet with the hitch set up correctly it tracked better on the highway with the Prowler hitched to it than without. I had a highly experience welder set up the head on the hitch (it was not adjustable so had to be cut and welded to change the ball height) and he took measurements of both the car and trailers ride heights before cutting the welds on the equalizing head to adjust the ball height and angle properly to match it to both the tow vehicle and the trailer.