Sway Control

[BigTexEd]

Sway control is important. Sway can be caused by wind, alignment, tires, water, snow, all of the loose connections between the from of the pulling vehicle and the tow vehicle, etc.. I just towed my enclosed 7x14 trailer with a sway control for 3500 miles. Smooth as butter.

Without sway control, any disturbance which causes the start of sway is called a stable system. If the sway gets worse, and worse, that system is unstable. The rate of change from the initial sway moment is important.

Relying on the stability of the system is complex. It depends on the tightness of connections, tire wear, suspension, weight, distribution, etc. What’s stable today may not be stable tomorrow.

I have it even though my system is stable. It’s cheap insurance. I think my sway bar was $60. It also tracks better. I don’t feel many things from the trailer. It’s good. Don’t forget tongue weight, % tongue weight, and load limits on everything. The bigger sway bars are heavy. They count against your tongue weight.

[TomC]

Reading this post it looks like the Anderson WDH is very popular. What are the advantages of this hitch over the E2 WDH?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by TomC

Reading this post it looks like the Anderson WDH is very popular. What are the advantages of this hitch over the E2 WDH?

For one thing, no messy grease because the ball turns with the trailer. I'm guessing it's also probably lighter.

[Katana07]

Hi everyone. New member here. I recently traded in an Aliner Expedition pop up single axle for a Micro Minnie 2108FBS. I've taken the Micro Minnie on three local trips now and everything has been great. My one real issue is towing. I'm surprised on how much sway and uneasiness I'm getting with this trailer. I have the e2 weight distribution hitch with 800lb bars. My dealership set me up with this system because of the large pass through storage up front, along with the two 60lb golf cart batteries I have on the tongue. In addition, I have two propane bottles and the pass through is loaded up with typical supplies. Nothing crazy. I have been towing with empty to minor fresh water capacity. Everything up to 60mph is fine, but once I start getting to around 65-67mph (I don't care to go faster), then I start noticing the trailer just seems a little unsteady especially on the interstate. I'm not white knuckled or anything and it's not horrible, but there is a sensation that the trailer is trying to push my truck around and it's making me uncomfortable. I plan on weighing the entire rig in the next few weeks to figure out all my numbers, but I seriously doubt I'm too light in the tongue and I feel as the WDB bars are properly sized. I have made adjustments to fresh water carrying capacity and adjusting the bar tensions and nothing seems to make a difference. I did double check the WD setup and measured all the dimensions of all the front and rear axles. It's spot on to the instructions and I personally feel that the technicians did a good job setting it up. My tow vehicle is a 2016 F-150 with the V8 tow package.
Anyone else having or have had this issue?

Thanks!

[TomC]

Originally Posted by Katana07

Hi everyone. New member here. I recently traded in an Aliner Expedition pop up single axle for a Micro Minnie 2108FBS. I've taken the Micro Minnie on three local trips now and everything has been great. My one real issue is towing. I'm surprised on how much sway and uneasiness I'm getting with this trailer. I have the e2 weight distribution hitch with 800lb bars. My dealership set me up with this system because of the large pass through storage up front, along with the two 60lb golf cart batteries I have on the tongue. In addition, I have two propane bottles and the pass through is loaded up with typical supplies. Nothing crazy. I have been towing with empty to minor fresh water capacity. Everything up to 60mph is fine, but once I start getting to around 65-67mph (I don't care to go faster), then I start noticing the trailer just seems a little unsteady especially on the interstate. I'm not white knuckled or anything and it's not horrible, but there is a sensation that the trailer is trying to push my truck around and it's making me uncomfortable. I plan on weighing the entire rig in the next few weeks to figure out all my numbers, but I seriously doubt I'm too light in the tongue and I feel as the WDB bars are properly sized. I have made adjustments to fresh water carrying capacity and adjusting the bar tensions and nothing seems to make a difference. I did double check the WD setup and measured all the dimensions of all the front and rear axles. It's spot on to the instructions and I personally feel that the technicians did a good job setting it up. My tow vehicle is a 2016 F-150 with the V8 tow package.
Anyone else having or have had this issue?

Thanks!

I have the same TT and tow with a Tundra Large V8 with tow package. I have e2 hitch with 600 pound bars. Only one battery and 2 propane tanks. Have not towed that much as I bought in a June and first real trip next month. I towed from dealership near Asheville and had to go down mountain on I-26. The TT towed great. I used cruise control after getting off I-26 and set at 67mph and my rig towed great. It was like it was not back there.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Katana07

I plan on weighing the entire rig in the next few weeks to figure out all my numbers, but I seriously doubt I'm too light in the tongue and I feel as the WDB bars are properly sized.

Thanks!

I would invest in a tongue weight scale just so you know what it actually weighs. Here's a cute little demonstration of what too little weight can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Dgxe584Ss

One other thought. I don't know if this can cause sway, but one member here had been over setting their WDH bars. The goal is to have the front fender well to be roughly the same height as before the trailer is attached, up to perhaps 1/2 inch higher. They were trying to do that at the rear wheel measurement, as I recall. Anyway, that would effectively also transfer weight to the trailer wheels too, but that's not quite the same as having the weight back there, so I don't know that it would cause sway.

[Katana07]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I would invest in a tongue weight scale just so you know what it actually weighs. Here's a cute little demonstration of what too little weight can do.

One other thought. I don't know if this can cause sway, but one member here had been over setting their WDH bars. The goal is to have the front fender well to be roughly the same height as before the trailer is attached, up to perhaps 1/2 inch higher. They were trying to do that at the rear wheel measurement, as I recall. Anyway, that would effectively also transfer weight to the trailer wheels too, but that's not quite the same as having the weight back there, so I don't know that it would cause sway.

Thanks Goodspike. I have seen several of those videos and agree completely that tongue weight has a tremendous effect on stability. I have some scales at work that I can easily weigh the tongue and plan on doing that before my next trip in mid-September. I did check the WD system measurements per the instructions and it is basically setting my front suspension back to where it was before the trailer is being hooked up, which according to the manual, that is the best case. My concern is that even though the system is good per the instructions, perhaps the WD bars are transferring too much weight to the trailer axles causing this issue. Once I measure the tongue weight, I might find myself purchasing the 600lb bars.
Other issues that people speak of, but I haven't seen yet on the Micro Minnies are axle alignment and wheel balance. The wheel assemblies on my trailer have no weights on them at all including the backside. I seriously doubt those assemblies are that well balanced. I was planning on pulling the wheels off over the winter and having them balanced as well.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Katana07

My concern is that even though the system is good per the instructions, perhaps the WD bars are transferring too much weight to the trailer axles causing this issue. Once I measure the tongue weight, I might find myself purchasing the 600lb bars.

Mine are oversized too, but I haven't noticed the sway issue you're reporting. I had wondered though about going over bumps. I bought them early on when I was renting trailers and didn't know what I'd end up with.

I seriously doubt those assemblies are that well balanced. I was planning on pulling the wheels off over the winter and having them balanced as well.

Wow, I had that exact same thought yesterday!

[MicroMinnie]

Your weight on the tongue is around 570lbs give or take a few pounds but I would be pretty close. (full propane) There’s something in your WD system or the axles messing it up as these trailers are pretty hard to sway even when loaded marginally close to ideal tongue weight.

I’ve driven with 450lbs on the tongue for hundreds of miles (same trailer as yours) and it drives straight as an arrow.

My average is around 500lbs. on 4300 total weight.
no weight distribution.

I’d test drive it without the WD bars as your truck is well withing limits of that trailer and check the axle mounting bolts for torgue.

[Katana07]

Originally Posted by MicroMinnie

Your weight on the tongue is around 570lbs give or take a few pounds but I would be pretty close. (full propane) There’s something in your WD system or the axles messing it up as these trailers are pretty hard to sway even when loaded marginally close to ideal tongue weight.

I’ve driven with 450lbs on the tongue for hundreds of miles (same trailer as yours) and it drives straight as an arrow.

My average is around 500lbs. on 4200 total weight.
no weight distribution.

I’d test drive it without the WD bars as your truck is well withing limits of that trailer.

I'm sure you're probably right. I plan to have the wheels balanced soon and also to have the dealership check alignment of the axles. I have searched and searched and cannot find where anyone else is having these problems. That's some of the reasons I don't believe it to be axle alignment. No one else is complaining of that. It might be the bars are transferring too much weight. I'll weigh the tongue soon and keep making adjustments. Thanks!

[BigTexEd]

Originally Posted by Katana07

Hi everyone. New member here. I recently traded in an Aliner Expedition pop up single axle for a Micro Minnie 2108FBS. I've taken the Micro Minnie on three local trips now and everything has been great. My one real issue is towing. I'm surprised on how much sway and uneasiness I'm getting with this trailer. I have the e2 weight distribution hitch with 800lb bars. My dealership set me up with this system because of the large pass through storage up front, along with the two 60lb golf cart batteries I have on the tongue. In addition, I have two propane bottles and the pass through is loaded up with typical supplies. Nothing crazy. I have been towing with empty to minor fresh water capacity. Everything up to 60mph is fine, but once I start getting to around 65-67mph (I don't care to go faster), then I start noticing the trailer just seems a little unsteady especially on the interstate. I'm not white knuckled or anything and it's not horrible, but there is a sensation that the trailer is trying to push my truck around and it's making me uncomfortable. I plan on weighing the entire rig in the next few weeks to figure out all my numbers, but I seriously doubt I'm too light in the tongue and I feel as the WDB bars are properly sized. I have made adjustments to fresh water carrying capacity and adjusting the bar tensions and nothing seems to make a difference. I did double check the WD setup and measured all the dimensions of all the front and rear axles. It's spot on to the instructions and I personally feel that the technicians did a good job setting it up. My tow vehicle is a 2016 F-150 with the V8 tow package.
Anyone else having or have had this issue?

Thanks!

I don’t know your rig or trailer. My comments are in general. They may or may not apply. I could probably tell if I could see it and measure things, but not in a post.

Your truck can pull the load fine. You have WD hitch...great. Remember, more weight on the tongue is more stable AS LONG as the ratio of tongue weight to total trailer weight is between 10-15% and other rules are met. Based on a tongue weight of 570lbs, the trailer can weigh between 3800-5700lbs. I did a google search, and the weight of the Micro Minnie 2108FBS is 3900lbs. If your tongue weight is 570lbs as another posted suggested, your weight ratio is 570/3900= 14.6%. More weight is usually more stable. This is good. Remember, the tongue weight includes your WD bar which can be very heavy. Your close to a maximum weight percentage. I weigh my trailer and rig on cat scales. It’s about $7 to measure. Measure once with trailer and truck on different scale pads. Then, remove the trailer and weigh the truck. The difference of truck weight is your tongue weight.

How level is the trailer under a load? If your trailer is pointing down towards the truck, that is bad. It wants to lift the front tires and upsets the rear balance. You want the trailer level or slightly pointed up for stability and host vehicle control.

One other thing to consider. Imagine a center of gravity on your trailer. It’s where the trailer weighs the same front to back. You want the trailer-distributed load to be about 60% of that load in the front. Manufacturers know this. It’s why they place the axels where they are. Just ensure you don’t load up the rear of the trailer.

Sounds like you have stability below 65mph. This is not that bad. I drive around that speed anyway while pulling. If you can notice the wind direction while pulling the trailer, you will see wind direction can reek havoc on the trailer. Full head winds or tail winds are better than side winds. Quartering winds can be really bad.

Check tire pressure of all tires. It makes a difference. I check mine before I leave, and before I go back. I monitor tire pressure on the way with TPMS.

Ensure the shocks and suspension on both trailer and truck are not worn out and are within specs.

Ensure your load is secure in the trailer.

I would not pull a trailer that is swaying badly. It’s just too dangerous. I see it all the time. If you can’t keep the wheels within the white lines, you have a trailer sway problem. Figure out the issue or slow down.

I just thought of one more thing. Does your sway instability above 65mph start when you hit the brakes? Brake pads/shoes and/or brake controller can cause instability while braking. Is the gain set correctly? You don’t want the trailer to ever skid. There are countless ways to set the gain. Proportional brake controllers work better than surge controllers. Do you have a trailer brake controller? I don’t leave home without one. Your tow package likely has it, but check. Ensure it’s adjusted correctly. The owners manual will tell you how to adjust it.

Cheers,
Ed

[09busaman]

Originally Posted by TomC

Reading this post it looks like the Anderson WDH is very popular. What are the advantages of this hitch over the E2 WDH?

GoodSpike is correct, the ball turns with the trailer. And is it lighter compared to another type of weight distribution hitch.

[Frankf]

Originally Posted by 09busaman

GoodSpike is correct, the ball turns with the trailer. And is it lighter compared to another type of weight distribution hitch.

The person we spoke to when we ordered our 2108 said they recommended the Equalizer hitch, but could get us the Anderson, which is what I told him I wanted.

From what I have read the Anderson works very well on smaller rigs and is able to handle weight distribution fine. Some have said that on very large TT's it's harder to get more weight transferred to the front of the TV.

[09busaman]

Originally Posted by Frankf

The person we spoke to when we ordered our 2108 said they recommended the Equalizer hitch, but could get us the Anderson, which is what I told him I wanted.

From what I have read the Anderson works very well on smaller rigs and is able to handle weight distribution fine. Some have said that on very large TT's it's harder to get more weight transferred to the front of the TV.

I can imagine it would be, they are rated to 10k, but I have not been able to test it on a larger TT. We are looking to upgrade at some point. I will try it with the Anderson first before spending money on another set up. When we do move to a larger TT, it will be towed by my F350, and I had planned to put bags under it anyway. We will see, either way I will do what I need to make myself feel comfortable with the towing set up. No need to take chances.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by 09busaman

I had planned to put bags under it anyway.

What do you mean by bags? Airbags over the top of the rear springs of the truck? Those don't add to vehicle capacity, and probably shouldn't be needed with an F-350.

[09busaman]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

What do you mean by bags? Airbags over the top of the rear springs of the truck? Those don't add to vehicle capacity, and probably shouldn't be needed with an F-350.

Yes, I meant air bags on the truck. I understand they dont add to capacity, but more to help level the truck in addition to the hitch set up. The hitch weight is 800lbs of the one I am looking at.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by 09busaman

Yes, I meant air bags on the truck. I understand they dont add to capacity, but more to help level the truck in addition to the hitch set up. The hitch weight is 800lbs of the one I am looking at.

Off the top of my head I don't know what the sag is on an F-350. Chevys tend to sag less than Ford though. I would maybe look for a Fast Lane Truck towing test of an F-350 to see what they measured. They probably would be towing a lot of weight with such a test truck.

Before spending time and money I would go without and see if you need it.

[09busaman]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Off the top of my head I don't know what the sag is on an F-350. Chevys tend to sag less than Ford though. I would maybe look for a Fast Lane Truck towing test of an F-350 to see what they measured. They probably would be towing a lot of weight with such a test truck.

Before spending time and money I would go without and see if you need it.

Thank you for the resource, I appreciate the information.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by 09busaman

Thank you for the resource, I appreciate the information.

You're welcome. It looks like they have several-at least two for 2020 models. BTW, I'm not a big fan of FLT, but they are at least competent to measure sag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXv7yaCUtQw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynru1jPiH6A

[Katana07]

Originally Posted by BigTexEd

I don’t know your rig or trailer. My comments are in general. They may or may not apply. I could probably tell if I could see it and measure things, but not in a post.

Your truck can pull the load fine. You have WD hitch...great. Remember, more weight on the tongue is more stable AS LONG as the ratio of tongue weight to total trailer weight is between 10-15% and other rules are met. Based on a tongue weight of 570lbs, the trailer can weigh between 3800-5700lbs. I did a google search, and the weight of the Micro Minnie 2108FBS is 3900lbs. If your tongue weight is 570lbs as another posted suggested, your weight ratio is 570/3900= 14.6%. More weight is usually more stable. This is good. Remember, the tongue weight includes your WD bar which can be very heavy. Your close to a maximum weight percentage. I weigh my trailer and rig on cat scales. It’s about $7 to measure. Measure once with trailer and truck on different scale pads. Then, remove the trailer and weigh the truck. The difference of truck weight is your tongue weight.

How level is the trailer under a load? If your trailer is pointing down towards the truck, that is bad. It wants to lift the front tires and upsets the rear balance. You want the trailer level or slightly pointed up for stability and host vehicle control.

One other thing to consider. Imagine a center of gravity on your trailer. It’s where the trailer weighs the same front to back. You want the trailer-distributed load to be about 60% of that load in the front. Manufacturers know this. It’s why they place the axels where they are. Just ensure you don’t load up the rear of the trailer.

Sounds like you have stability below 65mph. This is not that bad. I drive around that speed anyway while pulling. If you can notice the wind direction while pulling the trailer, you will see wind direction can reek havoc on the trailer. Full head winds or tail winds are better than side winds. Quartering winds can be really bad.

Check tire pressure of all tires. It makes a difference. I check mine before I leave, and before I go back. I monitor tire pressure on the way with TPMS.

Ensure the shocks and suspension on both trailer and truck are not worn out and are within specs.

Ensure your load is secure in the trailer.

I would not pull a trailer that is swaying badly. It’s just too dangerous. I see it all the time. If you can’t keep the wheels within the white lines, you have a trailer sway problem. Figure out the issue or slow down.

I just thought of one more thing. Does your sway instability above 65mph start when you hit the brakes? Brake pads/shoes and/or brake controller can cause instability while braking. Is the gain set correctly? You don’t want the trailer to ever skid. There are countless ways to set the gain. Proportional brake controllers work better than surge controllers. Do you have a trailer brake controller? I don’t leave home without one. Your tow package likely has it, but check. Ensure it’s adjusted correctly. The owners manual will tell you how to adjust it.

Cheers,
Ed

After much research and eliminating several suggestions, I concluded that the issues can only lie within a handlful of problems. Light tongue weight, axle misalignment or wheels out of balance. I hooked up to the TT yesterday and towed it to a tire shop. They removed all wheels and the technician said "these wheels are obscenely out of balance". Two of the 4 wheels took a little over 7 oz. of weights to balance them. The other two wheels were somewhat normal with 2-4 oz. After contacting the dealership, I was told that Winnebago never balances their trailer tires and this is not a warranty issue nor a factory delivery concern. However crazy that seems to me, it only cost me $64.00 to have all 4 removed, balanced and re-installed. The tire shop also stated that the unbalanced tires will and can cause instability, but more concerning was the fact that the trailer has tandem axles running aggressive tread "LT" tires which stand for light truck. The tire shop said that the light truck tires were never designed to be on a trailer and the sidewalls have less strength further promoting sway. I can see that this is heavily debated on the forums and other places on the internet. I'm not here to argue that, but simply repeating what the tire shop told me. They suggested that in order to achieve higher stability, I would ultimately need to switch to high quality ST trailer tires. I am not planning on doing that as the Trail Guide All Terrain factory tires seem to have reasonable quality from my research. I might switch whenever these are near the end of their life or after several years.
I have a trip in a few weeks where I will test the stability again. If it's still acting up, I plan to measure the axles for potential misalignment. If that checks good, I'm planning on taking the trailer to a weigh station and getting some numbers put together. I need to do that anyways. If all of those numbers check good and the trailer is balanced well, my issue might truly be related to this tire situation.