Cherokee too heavy for View?

[al1florida]

At being only 210 pounds over the GCWR, or even if you were 500-600 pounds over I would just keep the setup you have.

I base this on my view of living.

-- I always want to be aware of the way things are "supposed" to be. Not just in vehicle design weights etc, but in food we eat, life style we live, medical stuff and many other things.
-- Then I look at my risk factors and determine if I feel I can compensate for the risk, or am I just willing to accept the risk.

IMO the most dangerous situation you can be in is doing something (such as a RV & Toad) and not knowing your weights and weight limits. It is easy to be 1000-1500 pounds over weight.

Since you did due diligence and found out what your weights are you are in a very good position to access your situation.

As far as wear and tear on your rig.
-- Pay attention to your driving. Don't let the engine lug down which puts engine and transmission under undue stress. As you feel the engine load down, downshift so your RPMs stay up. This greatly reduces stress on engine and transmission. I have never driven a vehicle (even a car) in steep hills or mountains where I thought the transmission computer would downshift soon enough. I could always hear the engine loading down before downshifting. (that is unless I was pressing hard enough on the accelerator to force an earlier downshift because I was trying to keep my speed up.)
-- Drive at 55-60mph instead of 70mph. Not that you do drive that fast, but there are some or many RV'ers who do drive a 70-75 mph. I would say that stresses the vehicle more than being even 500 pounds over GCWR.

By the way, I see nothing at all wrong with going up a 10% grade at 25mph in 2nd or 3rd gear. That is what I have seen in all of my RV's, from travel trailer, 5th wheel, Class C Ford gas, 2 diesel pushers and Class A gaser. If you are trying to to up a 10% grade at 40-45 mph you are pushing your rig way to hard. Talk about wear and tear on a rig.

[jayelldouble]

I tow a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon behind a 2016 Itasca Navion. The Jeep scaled at about 3800 pounds and it hasn't given me any major problems when towing. Without the Jeep in tow I get about 15 mpg, with it I get between 13 and 14. I've kept a log of every gallon of diesel I've put in since I got the RV new with about 700 miles on it (delivery miles from the factory to Dayton OH) - the Fuellog app on my phone tells me the long term average is 14.22 mpg. The only time I've considered disconnecting the Jeep to climb a hill was going up Nine Mile Canyon in the Sierras but we made it, albeit at 15 mph with the transmission temp hovering around 230F. A few years ago before I got the Navion I was towing the same Jeep up the same hill with my old F250 longbed 4x4 with the 460ci engine and a Lance camper and I experienced similar speed and temperature anxiety with that setup - but we made it that time too. So I'd just keep your Jeep and keep an eye on temperatures and maybe send in a sample for oil analysis - I've been using Blackstone Labs to do this and so far so good - no signs of burning in the transmission fluid, no excess wear material, etc.

[plrude]

We have had a view for over 150,000 miles. We park it everywhere including downtown in major cities. There is always a spot within a couple of blocks I always think it is odd to see a view with a tow car as the view is nearly the same size as a full sized double cab pickup ie. “park anywhere. “We enjoy dining out 3 to 4 times a week. It takes less than five minutes to unhook water and power. If we are boondocking, the trip to dinner, market, or site seeing has the benefit of charging the battery.

When you think about the fact that you have added the weight of a small house to a van and then tow another 4500 pounds, you will be stressing the engine, transmission, etc and lowering their life to some degree. When I first bought our view, my concern was parking and the first owner I asked said “ I park where ever it fits and don’t worry about it “. That attitude has worked well for us and we have never felt left out of an activity due to our view and it’s size.

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by BadMed

OPTION 2 - Going without a Toad I think would be very inconvenient. We enjoy hiking and paddle boarding. It would be a real pain to stow everything in the motorhome and disconnect the utilities every time we want to head out for a day trip. I know other RVers do it. Can anyone weigh in on how they deal with not having a Toad?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Staying in a RV Park, a State Park or other places with nice level campsites that are easy to get in makes it fairly easy to park and unhook to drive to the store.

Since you like to hike and paddle board you may want to camp closer to your activities, perhaps boondocking in National Forests, BLM land, etc. We have found we stay in lots of places that are not easy to level and not always easy to pull into and out of.

I much prefer to park at or near trailheads rather than add a mile or two to my hike because there is no parking for large vehicles at the trail.

We also much prefer to boondock than stay in established campground. We have many times parked our RV and driven the toad around for an hour or so checking out boondock spots that we can get the RV to. It is not fun to drive a couple of miles down a gravel road in the RV only to find out that there is some dip, tree or hill we couldn't get the RV past and then we have to back up for quite a ways to turn around.

It can be done, many people do travel in RV's w/o a toad. A lot depends on what you do and where you stay.

Give a lot of thought on your traveling life style before giving up the toad.

[GiGi]

I had a Forest River 24foot Mercedes diesel prior to getting a Winnabago Vista 29VE. I bought a manual transmission Honda Fit and I didn’t (and don’t) even know it’s behind me. I had a hitch put on the Fit and I carry my e-bike. It has an amazing amount of space, especially with the back seats down (I have 2 big dogs). But in all honesty when i had the 24 footer, if I was doing a stop and go trip, I just took my bike and never needed a toad.

[Buddy’s RV]

We just upgraded our toad to a 2020 Ford Ranger . We tow with a 2018 24D . So far so good . A little slower on steep mountain grades . Leaving for the Blue Ridge Parkway this week . If the weight becomes an issue I will disconnect and let my " Boss " follow me . ( And it will be peaceful driving the View ) Will update this post in a week or so .

[dacap06]

FWIW, I flat tow a 2014 Chevrolet Sonic, which weighs about 2700 lb. I hardly know it is there on my Winnie Vista 35B, and I have towed it since I bought the car new with zero problems.

One caveat: I stay well within the recommended towing parameters though, and that's the trick for all machinery. Running it at the edge of its performance envelope causes premature wear and increases likelihood of failure. I tow at 55-60 (max 65), and run the car for at least 5 minutes more often than the recommended every 3 hours, and it is about 60% of the Vista's towing capacity.

One further caveat: whatever car you choose eventually, read the manual carefully. For example, to be flat towable the 2014 sonic must be equipped with the optional 1.4L turbo engine with the matched automatic transmission. The 2014 Sonic is not flat towable with the standard engine.

[JDHarrin]

We bought a used 2014 Nissan Versa 5-Speed and set it up with the Blue Ox Towing and Brake packages. We load it up with supplies while towing since the 2010 WB Aspect 28B has very little outside cubbie space. We initially had a problem with the Versa battery dying while towing, but I solved that with a battery disconnect switch and dedicated power line to the Patriot braking system. Just came back from a 900-mile towing trip. Worked flawlessly... :-)

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

So maybe get a dedicated toad like the Chevy Spark whose curb weight is in the low 2,000s.

We almost bought a Chevy Spark because it can be flat towed with an automatic transmission, but one of the things that stopped me is that fact that you have to be careful about the highest speed you use when towing. It is limited for the Chevy Spark. I don't remember exactly what the top speed when towing was but I think it was something like 55 or 60 mph, and I decided that while I generally drive that speed I did not want to worry about speeding up to pass someone.

In the end I bought a car dolly. Not suggesting that for you, only that you consider the top allowed speed when towing.

[Cataska]

10% grade for any distance is a pull for most diesels

[dougb]

The Mercedes Sprinter diesel with motorhome attached is not rated to pull 5000 pounds. It is rated to pull that ONLY when it is just an empty van....no motorhome. I bought a new Mercedes Forest River Solera diesel and planned to tow my Honda CRV. I did that on several trips and for 8K miles without a mechanical issue. BUT there was never enough power on inclines or trying to merge. Another issue not mentioned in this thread is stopping the 5k toad with the Mercedes braking system. This system is famously poorly designed and once again, only designed for the empty van and not the motorhome version using the same engine and braking system. I found all this out the hard way and ended up selling the Mercedes so I can pull and stop a toad safely.
Note: when purchasing the Mercedes Forest River 24 foot motorhome, there was no mention that the motor, tranny and brakes were NOT designed or able to pull or stop a 4000lb toad though the manual states that it can two 5000lbs. It cannot!! Add the weight of the cabin, appliances, tanks, cabinets, refer, toilet, stove, heater, and bed plus the sides, top and windows to make it a motorhome and that weight ends up being much too much for that moho to pull 5000lbs.
Hope this helps someone. Feel free to email me if I can help. You can trust my report here as reliable and evidence based.

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by dougb

The Mercedes Sprinter diesel with motorhome attached is not rated to pull 5000 pounds. It is rated to pull that ONLY when it is just an empty van....no motorhome. I bought a new Mercedes Forest River Solera diesel and planned to tow my Honda CRV. I did that on several trips and for 8K miles without a mechanical issue. BUT there was never enough power on inclines or trying to merge. Another issue not mentioned in this thread is stopping the 5k toad with the Mercedes braking system. This system is famously poorly designed and once again, only designed for the empty van and not the motorhome version using the same engine and braking system. I found all this out the hard way and ended up selling the Mercedes so I can pull and stop a toad safely.
Note: when purchasing the Mercedes Forest River 24 foot motorhome, there was no mention that the motor, tranny and brakes were NOT designed or able to pull or stop a 4000lb toad though the manual states that it can two 5000lbs. It cannot!! Add the weight of the cabin, appliances, tanks, cabinets, refer, toilet, stove, heater, and bed plus the sides, top and windows to make it a motorhome and that weight ends up being much too much for that moho to pull 5000lbs.
Hope this helps someone. Feel free to email me if I can help. You can trust my report here as reliable and evidence based.

#1-- Most all states require supplemental braking for things being towed that weigh 4000-5000 pounds, so I am unclear where you are getting your info about braking while towing.

#2 What does the documentation (including the sticker attached to the van) listing the GVWR and GCWR state? I can think of no reason why someone should not tow something as long as both the GVWR & GCWR are not exceeded.

#3 Without both GVWR & GCWR given it is very difficult to assess the accuracy of your statement.

#4 Listing both the GVWR & GCWR would be "evidence based". It would also be providing "facts" and not just opinion.

Note that I am not writing that a fully loaded sprinter van can tow 5000 pounds. I don't have the numbers for the motorhome in question to make that determination.

[SeeTheUSA]

Originally Posted by dougb

.... snipped ....
You can trust my report here as reliable and evidence based.

So where’s your evidence? Unreliable without pertinent facts.

[Elkman]

State laws regarding brakes on the towed vehicle do not differentiate between a trailer and a flat towed vehicle. It is equally important for the tow vehicle with a trailer or a toad to be able to stop the in a safe distance. This should be common sense but common sense is increasinly rare in this country.

Federal Regulations Title 49 (49CFR571.4) of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (10-01-08 edition) defines a 'trailer' as follows: “Trailer means a motor vehicle with or without motive power, designed for carrying persons or property and for being drawn by another motor vehicle."

[Coffie Drink]

I tow a 17 Ford Fiesta 5 speed with SMS brake system with my 15 View G. I drive all over the PNW. Mountains are not an issue. IMHO do not tow a heavy car, only tow with a brake system. If you get in a wreck you could have a huge liability issue. Sprinters can easily be heavy some of the cars talked about will easily be well over your GCWR and to not use a brake system is insane.

[Elkman]

I became acutely aware of how tow capacity does not relate to stopping distance with a trailer in tow. My Chevy Tahoe was rated to tow 7500 lbs but one day while towing a 3,000 lb boat trailer on the freeway at 55 mph some yahoo pulled right in front of me and trying to cross the highway and then stopped directly in my path. With the brakes fully applied I stopped less than a foot of the driver's door. If I had been driving at the 65 mph speed limit I would have most likely killed him.

The distance required to go from 65 mph to a complete stop and do so safely and without jackknifing is something to consider with whatever rig you decide upon.

[Wayne M]

Each State is different regarding Towing Laws and when brakes are required. Click on "Towing Laws" to see what the States require.

p.s., the only reciprocity is driver licenses, and all safety required equipment is State by State.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

p.s., the only reciprocity is driver licenses, and all safety required equipment is State by State.

Are you sure that is correct? I was under the impression that as long as you were in accordance with the laws of the state you are licensed in you were good to go, no matter where you were in the US.

[Wayne M]

Just a quick search found this in one document. You can do your research. You are subject to the laws of the jurisdiction that you are in.
=================

"IV.

Operational Limitations

This Ageement shall not be construed to authorize the operation of any vehicle or combination of vehicles upon the highways of any signator jurisdiction in excess of the maximum weight, width, length or height allowed by the laws of such jurisdiction in which the vehicle is being operated, or contrary to any other provision of the laws, safety rules and regulations, and violation of said laws by any owner or operator, or agent thereof, shall constitute grounds for suspension or revocation of benefits ' granted herein.It is further provided that signator jurisdictions reserve the right to cancel the benefits of this Agreement as to any individual operator or owner or carrier if any requirements of this Agreement are not complied with.

V.

Interpretation

The final decision regarding interpretation of questions at issue relating to this Agreement shall be reached by joint action of the affected jurisdictions, acting through their proper officials, and shall upon determination be placed in writing.

VI.

Amendments

This Agreement may be amended by joint action of the signator jurisdictions; acting through the officials thereof authorized to enter into this Agreement. All amendments shall be placed in writing and become a part hereof."
========================


Go ahead and triple tow in all states. If one is lucky they will not get a ticket. The link I provided just before your post has the laws for brakes. All laws of the state one is in needs to be followed.


I'm not a lawyer so if there is one out there - please chime in.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

Go ahead and triple tow in all states. If one is lucky they will not get a ticket. The link I provided just before your post has the laws for brakes. All laws of the state one is in needs to be followed.

I tow with a dolly and it has electric brakes, so it was not really the braking laws I was thinking about. It was other things involved with towing.

For example, in Arizona you do not need a license plate for a tow dolly, and so the state does not issue them and hence I would not have one on the dolly when towing regardless of where I was. I don't know if other states require a license plate for a tow dolly so that makes me wonder about my status when traveling.

Arizona does not require secondary light attachments when using a tow dolly - that is, turn and stop lights - as long as the dolly has them. I don't know the laws in other states.