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Old 01-16-2005, 12:30 PM   #1
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Good Day,

We are just into our 2nd year as owners of a Sightseer 35N. This was our first motorhome and have been pleased with it.

We wanted to get an Adventurer, but did not want to sink all that money into a motor home if we found we did not like it. Weel, we have found we love the coach and the trips we have taken (10,000 miles last year).

Our question is when should be trade for our dream coach? should we do it now while the Sightseer in only 1 year old, or should we wait?
Thanks your the advise,
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Old 01-16-2005, 12:30 PM   #2
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Good Day,

We are just into our 2nd year as owners of a Sightseer 35N. This was our first motorhome and have been pleased with it.

We wanted to get an Adventurer, but did not want to sink all that money into a motor home if we found we did not like it. Weel, we have found we love the coach and the trips we have taken (10,000 miles last year).

Our question is when should be trade for our dream coach? should we do it now while the Sightseer in only 1 year old, or should we wait?
Thanks your the advise,
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Old 01-16-2005, 12:45 PM   #3
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I was told by a friend at a dealer once that you take a bath finanically in the first couple of years if you trade. The numbers start making sense around 4-5 years old.
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Old 01-16-2005, 03:45 PM   #4
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Ron, Unfortunitely you've already bit the bullet and it doesn't get any better. The jerks who publish the pricing books for the dealers have designed their programs to make sure you never get treated fairly. And about the time you think you got a deal, wait an hour and you'll find out you didn't.

These RVs are not an investment by any stretch of the imagination. If you don't have $30,000 to $60,000 to throw away each year of ownership, you shouldn't make the move. RVing is not going to save you any money, it's a life style and a costly one at that.

I don't know of any other product or indusrty, that as soon as you drive it off the dealers lot or even just sign the C of O, that you'll loose at least $40,000 and have to fight to get your coach in the condition you expected from the factory and then the expense and inconvenience you'll go through to get warranty work done.

If your going to trade, think twice and then think again, but know what the true values are.

Tomcat F15
"Why am I so cynical about this Industry? To me,their only goal is to make huge profits at our expense and forget about us after the sale. For the prices we pay for these products, we should get a life time warranty and they should kiss our to get our business.
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Old 01-17-2005, 02:46 PM   #5
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Tomcat,
Have you ever thought about the advantages of boat ownership or ultra-light airplane flight? You may really enjoy that. Sorry that the RV world does not seem to be a good fit.
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:09 PM   #6
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When to trade - that's an age old question. Fortunately you can't get a failing mark for answering it wrong, because there is no wrong answer, only lots of different right ones.

Everyone is different so you're going to have to weigh what works for you. RVs are a hobby, not an investment, so they don't make you money. But, you can try to lose as little of it as possible. If you get too far into the money thing though you will lose the ability to enjoy it now because you'll always be waiting for a better deal. If you can get something you really want sooner rather than later you can start enjoying it now, rather than waiting until you have one foot in the grave.

It is true that RVs are supposed to lose big time in value the first year. But that doesn't necessarily mean that has to always happen. The Internet is making more RVers savvy about what to buy and how much they have to pay. This means that RV dealers have to get in the 25% discount range to be competitive. If you find a new coach and only get a 15% discount you will lose big time the first year. If you got 25% off it can vary quite a bit, depending upon how bad the place where you want to get the second coach wants to move his new coach and how easily he can move your old coach.

When I traded my 2003 Suncruiser on a 2004 Allegro Bus all of the preconceived notions indicated that I would lose. So we planned on waiting a bit more. However, after calculating a 25% discount off the Bus, and then looking at what my "true" trade-in allowance was on the Suncruiser I found that I only lost about $10,000 on a 1 year old coach with 10,000 miles on it. My Suncruiser had a $120K MSRP and I got it for $90K and was allowed $80K after receiving a decent discount on the Allegro Bus. However, the dealer I bought from really wanted my business. Plus, he moved my trade after a couple of months and made money on it. This happened in June. 9 months earlier I priced a new 2003 Dutch Star and found that I was only being allowed a $75K trade-in on a current year coach (although it had 4,000 miles on it) so I would have lost $15K on that. But that was winter and this dealer didn't move used coaches as fast as the Tiffin dealer so they didn't want to stick that much into it.

All in all, it was an excellent choice. The 2005s are out now and the MSRP jumps up every year, plus the interest rate was nice and low when I made the move. Now we have the coach of our dreams and are enjoying every minute of it. You just can't put a price on that.

This may not be the best time of the year for a favorable trade-in allowance. It's going to depend on if this is a slow season in your area. It is up here, but then again it's zero degrees outside right now so the only time dealers move their inventory is to plow snow from around them. I'd check around and see what kind of deals you can make. If you have a good relationship with your salesman you can probably find out when they move the most used RVs and plan accordingly. Do the math, you may lose, but then again, you might not.
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Old 01-18-2005, 12:47 AM   #7
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It appears to me that if one must have a motorhome (like myself), and if one is concerned about the costs, then the only thing you can really do is 1) buy a quality motorhome up front (Winnebago!), 2)keep it for a loooong time and 3) when you do trade, continue to trade down to a smaller one until you work your way out!
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:18 AM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by minnie26a:
It appears to me that if one must have a motorhome (like myself), and if one is concerned about the costs, then the only thing you can really do is 1) buy a quality motorhome up front (Winnebago!), 2)keep it for a loooong time and 3) when you do trade, continue to trade down to a smaller one until you work your way out! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is my strategy. This forum helped me skip the gas rig phase. I jumped into the diesel pusher I really wanted as my first rig. I plan to keep it for years and years.
It is not just dollars I am putting into it, it is years of my life. I am getting immense enjoyment of ownership during years while I can still walk, climb, crawl, and smile. I will probably have to retire feet first, but am having a great time retiring one weekend at a time -- With the rig of our dreams.
Walt
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:35 PM   #9
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tomcat, i have never,ever heard it stated so well and im talking about what you said under your name.
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:26 PM   #10
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kiwi,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner,I HAD ANOTHER PROBLEM WITH OUR COACH and I'm waiting to see if Winnebago is going to help, as it was their service tech, that caused the problem in the begining.

jdsr,

That comes straight from the heart and from first hand experience. Thank you.

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Old 01-18-2005, 10:28 PM   #11
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Ron and Susan,

I think that Cruzer gave you the formula to figure out your own question: You have to do the math, and the answer encourages a different response from each person.

I've heard that many people pay close to MSRP when they buy a coach. It is generally recognized as being 25% higher than the dealer is willing to let the rig go for, if you are patient and firm in your dealings. Tack on that 25% inflated price, to the fact that the rig depreciates a bunch (I'd guess around 20%) when you drive it off the lot, and you can see why some people are upside down in their rigs.

Because of this, they may have to keep the rig for close to the full term of the loan, before they finally get some equity in it.

So, in your case, you can do the math. Figure out what you paid for it versus MSRP less 25%, check the blue book value on your coach now, and you'll have your first number, plus or minus, indicating equity.

The second number is your subject coach. MSRP less 25% is the number on that one. If you are going to put a down payment on it, great, just don't factor it in until you decide on the value.

You will arrive at an approximate dollar amount that the new coach is going to cost you. Only you can decide if the cost is equal to the value, to you.

Incidentally, my wife and I were in the same boat you were, we'd never RV'd before, and jumped in with both feet with a gas RV. Now, knowing how much we love it, I wish we'd gotten a diesel pusher, but we'll do that in a couple of years.

Incidentally, if you can comfortably afford a large down payment, when purchasing your RV, and you do buy at 25% below MSRP, you should be in a position of never being 'upside down' in your RV, throughout your ownership of it.

Good luck, have fun, and don't let the stress get to you - life's too short!

Verne and Linda
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Old 01-19-2005, 04:51 AM   #12
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Hi Vern,
Sounds like a man with a plan. For now it sounds like you have a minor injury and will dropping out of the race for the diesels. Great advice on this post. see ya in rock Crusher......Bill
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Old 01-19-2005, 02:26 PM   #13
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You're right on, Bill, and we look forward to the Rock Crusher Rally as well. The last one was a lot of fun, and it looks like it's going to be another great turnout. See you then!

Verne and Linda
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