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Old 05-29-2019, 07:25 PM   #1
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Lesson Learned...

We have a 2018 Cambria 30j. It came with built in surge protector, we were under the assumption this was a good thing. While in Tx last week, our surge protector blew and along with it the transfer switch. A/C was on and second I turned microwave on.. bam!
So found a great RV dealer in Wichita Falls that helped us. It was pointed out that it was probably a bad pole that was to blame, but because we didn’t have readout on surge protector, we assumed all was ok. The surge protector and transfer switch melted. So it did it’s job. Lesson learned? Always have a surge protector at the pole so you can instantly see problems. We did not replace the surge protector in the rig..rather bought a very nice one for the pole. After returning to campsite, we plugged in the new surge protector and yup! It was a bad pole. This is our fourth rig and have never travelled without a surge guard.
Well, lesson learned and no one was hurt. Hope this helps someone out there.
Safe travels...
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:58 AM   #2
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We always test the pole before plugging anything in.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:00 PM   #3
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K... Can you point to the item (Amazon...) you mean? Thanks.

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Old 05-30-2019, 12:10 PM   #4
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They don't make a 50a tester, only 30a. DH built his own 50a tester, I don't think you can buy one. Now that you have a Surgeguard you shouldn't need anything(as long as you look at the screen). Sounds strange that your original one didn't have a readout.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:52 PM   #5
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It's not that hard to use a meter with test probes, you look for between 105 and 130 volts AC (120 is "normal") between each of the long outside slots to the center long slot, measured one at a time. You look for between 105 and 130 volts AC between each of the long outside slots and the round ground hole, measured one at a time. You should have less than 2 volts between the center long slot and the round ground hole. If over 2 volts, there's something not quite up to snuff with the campground wiring. 5 volts is the upper limit, don't use the outlet if over 5 volts. If any of those readings are 240 volts AC then don't use the outlet and mark it mis-wired and let the appropriate camp host know.

Note: Normally when measuring between the two outside slots it will be between 210 and 260 volts AC (240 is "normal") if it is correctly wired per NEMA 50A standard, but even if the reading between the two outside slots is near 0 volts AC you can still use the outlet, if you limit your current draw up to 50 amps total, so you don't overheat your shore cable. 0 Volts AC is what you read if you use a 30 A Plug to 50 A receptacle converter. Chances in this situation your Energy Management System will display 30 instead of 50 and prevent you from using more than 30 amps.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:26 AM   #6
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Powercat_ras and Sue46, my DH did actually use a test meter prior to plugging which showed all was well. Only thing we can think of is that the tester was bad also.
We had a Winnebago Aspect years ago that was saved by a surge protector during a lightening storm. Lightening hit close to our pole and fried everything but our rig.. yeah best money you can buy when you’re rv’ing is a surge protector IMO.... ok maybe duck tape too��
Wetstuff, not ignoring you! Have limited WiFi as we are in Wyoming near Yellowstone and not much WiFi up here. It goes in and out�� Most RV dealers carry surge protectors in 30 and 50 amp.. well worth the $$!
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Old 05-31-2019, 04:21 PM   #7
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Here's an interesting looking DIY 50A tester that tests voltage, polarity and ground. Note that I haven't tried it yet but it's simple and, I would say ingenious, in that it uses inexpensive off-the-shelf parts and splits the 50A service is two "normal" 120V circuits for testing. It's essentially simplifying the multimeter process that Randy described:

50-amp Tester

My MH is 30A so I might use this same basic design to create a 30A tester or alternatively just build it for 50A and use a 50A/30A adapter plug since converting from 30A to 50A is on my long-range project list.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:32 PM   #8
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progressive surge guards have built in line testing and has a lifetime warranty should it get fried. I have mine permanently mounted in my electric service area with the readout easy to see when hooking up.



Only found one pole so far that it would not allow me to use... when requesting a new spot the manager of the park's response was "well someone fried their coach there last year, wonder if it was that".
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:14 PM   #9
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You all probably got the same email but, for what it's worth, CW is having a sale on surge protectors at good discounts:

https://www.campingworld.com/outside...01_7042_Direct
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:14 PM   #10
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On my last RV I installed a Progressive inside the bay. However, on my Winnie MH I haven't done anything. I know there is a switch of some sort inside the bay of my 30T Vista. I assume it's not a surge protector.. I may be wrong.

In any event.. for those who have a built in surge protector.. is there a reason to NOT install one at the pedestal? Would they cancel each other? IOW, the OP had a built in SP. Could he safely have had a SP on the outside pedestal? Would it have worked?
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Old 06-05-2019, 06:44 PM   #11
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Sorry, I'm confused because 1 + 1 is not equaling two here. For something to melt it had to have experienced a sustained over-current condition or a high-resistance connection that generated a lot of heat, not a transient surge. What type of surge protector did you have installed that failed?

Putting electrical protection on one end of a wire or the other makes precisely zero difference, with the exception being if your cord or plug is defective.

If the open neutral wire is in your cord or plug a hard-wired electrical protection system will protect you because it's between the defect and the RV. If you use a pole-mounted system it may or may not protect you from a defective RV cord depending on what it tests for.

Also bear in mind that a "surge protector" may be just that, protection from transient over-voltage conditions. Those will be useless if there is a pole or wiring problem.

I, too, use the Progressive Industries EMS 50-amp hard-wired unit. If it should fail it has a bypass switch if you have a remote display unit or a wire you can move internally if you have the display mounted on the unit.

Bear in mind that a tester may display falsely good. Why? Because it pulls no current. If there is a defective or high resistance connection in the pole a tester will never reveal it. The fault may only show up when a large amount of current is being pulled.

FWIW,
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
Sorry, I'm confused because 1 + 1 is not equaling two here. For something to melt it had to have experienced a sustained over-current condition or a high-resistance connection that generated a lot of heat, not a transient surge. What type of surge protector did you have installed that failed?

Putting electrical protection on one end of a wire or the other makes precisely zero difference, with the exception being if your cord or plug is defective.

If the open neutral wire is in your cord or plug a hard-wired electrical protection system will protect you because it's between the defect and the RV. If you use a pole-mounted system it may or may not protect you from a defective RV cord depending on what it tests for.

Also bear in mind that a "surge protector" may be just that, protection from transient over-voltage conditions. Those will be useless if there is a pole or wiring problem.

I, too, use the Progressive Industries EMS 50-amp hard-wired unit. If it should fail it has a bypass switch if you have a remote display unit or a wire you can move internally if you have the display mounted on the unit.
I'm in 100% agreement here. Something doesn't add up and this sentence makes me think something bigger is wrong:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kdsgone2dogs View Post
A/C was on and second I turned microwave on.. bam!
How many times before was the sequence of the air conditioner and microwave operated at the same time?
And I am curious about the transfer switch; I assume you are referring to the automatic transfer switch for generator and shore power.
Typically, most surge protectors and automatic transfer switches do their work through a contactor. This contactor uses line voltage (120 volt) to operate such as the Progressive industries EMS that NXR mentions.
No name brand was given for either the ATS or the surge protector but guessing they are industry standard design, I'm guessing the meltdown happened with the contactor of each and if this is the case; the operation of the microwave may have introduced power on a line it normally should not such as a ground or neutral.
I doubt it was a high current issue (too high of amp draw) - circuit breakers take care of that and both the microwave and A/C have the own separate breakers. A voltage drop would have been detected by the surge protector and would have opened for the set delay period. But, an energized neutral or ground that happens after the surge protector is past its protection and is destructive and capable of what you described.
I suspect something is up with the microwave - maybe even the magnetron or the rectifier diode. The road jostling around of an RV can stress lots of stuff - including appliances.
It's worth investigating the appliances before toasting another surge protector.

Bobby
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:40 PM   #13
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From the description it sounds more like a defective transfer switch failed and took out the surge protector since the short circuit came from behind it. A surge protector at the pole probably would have also been damaged since they protect from power faults coming into them and not issues with the wiring or devices behind them on their outputs.


The defective transfer switch should have been replaced under warranty along with the surge protector damaged by its failure.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:32 AM   #14
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NeilV, it was explained to us that it was a defective transfer switch. I’ve used the microwave/convection many times since this incident and all is fine.
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:55 AM   #15
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Nicely Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
Here's an interesting looking DIY 50A tester that tests voltage, polarity and ground. Note that I haven't tried it yet but it's simple and, I would say ingenious, in that it uses inexpensive off-the-shelf parts and splits the 50A service is two "normal" 120V circuits for testing. It's essentially simplifying the multimeter process that Randy described:

50-amp Tester

My MH is 30A so I might use this same basic design to create a 30A tester or alternatively just build it for 50A and use a 50A/30A adapter plug since converting from 30A to 50A is on my long-range project list.

Thanks! Tester is one of the best explained I have seen.
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:53 AM   #16
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Thank you very much for the follow-up. Too many threads are just left hanging without any closure and that leaves too many current and future readers wondering if they have a similar issue pending.
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Old 06-07-2019, 01:22 AM   #17
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I'm thinking your coach is part of the widespread ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) recall. I have a 2016 Cambria and one day my electricity simply stopped working and the coach smelled like burned toast. Some quick googling turned up that my coach had a recall on the ATS. Winnebago replaced it at their cost but it was extremely inconvenient.

Sadly I found out it was the second one replaced in my coach! I bought it barely used. The first ATS was replaced by Camping World who didn't tighten whatever it was they were supposed to tighten. I'm just grateful we didn't burn up.

You can easily google further info about this recall.

Also I have always used a surge protector but it won't save you from a recalled ATS.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:09 AM   #18
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Thanks DebbyDiver... I will research. We love our Cambria! Perfect size for us.
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:38 AM   #19
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Defective ATS

Whatever the defect in the recalled ATS units, it must be very bad. I'm imagining that some part of the contactor assembly breaks off and shorts the power to the grounds. That would create some fireworks, until the pedestal breaker pops.


Just returned from a 2 month west coast trip and all went well, except for a minor situation with a power pedestal in OK. The owner of the park said that the 50 amp breaker was replaced and wanted to see if all worked well. Our 50 amp, internal mount "Surge Guard" indicated all was good and ran the AC, water heater and microwave normally. My curiosity led me to check the pedestal. The 50 amp plug was cool, but the 50 amp breaker in the pedestal was fairly hot to the touch. Poor connection somewhere in or around that breaker. If the breaker is hot on the outside, then something inside is much hotter. A check of the voltages at the surge protector showed both at 120 volts. Our power usage was decreasing in the evening, so I advised the owner and let it go. There were no problems and we left in the morning. If we had stayed for another hot day, I believe the pedestal breaker would have burned up.
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