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Old 06-18-2014, 10:20 PM   #1
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If Airplanes were built like motorhomes

If airplanes were built like motorhomes those of us who flew would no longer be on this side of the earth. It is shocking to see how many constant problem issues we have with our coaches. It does not matter who the manufacturer is, we all have issues. It is almost as if we all have become numb and just expect them. With legitimate quality construction, care for customers, pride of company and quality control there truly would be improvement. We love traveling and being in our coach but really is there not a company out there who does it right? We are Winnebago Product Class A owners and are going on 76 issues on a new off the lot coach. Please do not ask me to list them. It would take an hour or more to write them up and explain the problems.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:24 PM   #2
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Well said👍👍👍
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:32 PM   #3
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I don't know?? I've worked on some older Lockeed products in the military that would make you cringe!!!
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:46 PM   #4
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I started with a 1973 Brave, then 2000 Minnie Winnie DL, 2008 View, and now a 2014 Journey so I guess that makes me a some what loyal Winnebago fan. Got the last 3 new and had our share of problems. Some times it was just way less trouble to fix things myself. On the other hand, when flying, if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!!!!! :-)


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Old 06-19-2014, 03:19 AM   #5
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hmmm...

and what would be the cost of the motorhome built like an airplane?
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:10 AM   #6
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If Airplanes were built like motorhomes

I wondered when someone would come up with the comment on what it would cost to build a motorhome like an airplane.

But really isn't it kind of a joke all the issues motorhomes have. And truly, can't a company have pride of construction so that the number of things that go wrong (and there are literally thousands over and over) be seriously lessened? If it was my company and I saw all of these malfunctions posted day after day I would be embarrassed.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:22 AM   #7
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The RV industry has no incentive to spend money for better design, engineering, assembly and quality control. They can still get away with slapping 'em together and shoving 'em out the door as long as there are willing buyers.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:33 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackspot1 View Post
I wondered when someone would come up with the comment on what it would cost to build a motorhome like an airplane.



But really isn't it kind of a joke all the issues motorhomes have. And truly, can't a company have pride of construction so that the number of things that go wrong (and there are literally thousands over and over) be seriously lessened? If it was my company and I saw all of these malfunctions posted day after day I would be embarrassed.

I dont have an easy answer, but..... A 40-foot aircraft with as many toys as we have in a 40-foot MH would never get approved by the FAA without costing millions. And aircraft are not totally defect-free. So your answer is a Prevost or Newell (et al).
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:34 AM   #9
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In my opinion, motorhomes are being built like car manufactures built cars back in the 60's and 70's. Not much QAQC and there was always something to fix. Then a foreign nation stepped in and said "this is how you build cars" and almost put our manufactures out of business.

Most of the problems we see on a new unit are QAQC related. At a car manufacturing plant near us, every person on the assembly line has the big red STOP button to stop the line to be able to fix something they see as a problem. Proper QAQC does not cost money, but saves money is fewer returns, better customer satisfaction, and better employee attitude which is results in a employee doing a better job the next time and taking the time to do it right.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:46 AM   #10
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In my opinion, motorhomes are being built like car manufactures built cars back in the 60's and 70's. Not much QAQC and there was always something to fix. Then a foreign nation stepped in and said "this is how you build cars" and almost put our manufactures out of business.



Most of the problems we see on a new unit are QAQC related. At a car manufacturing plant near us, every person on the assembly line has the big red STOP button to stop the line to be able to fix something they see as a problem. Proper QAQC does not cost money, but saves money is fewer returns, better customer satisfaction, and better employee attitude which is results in a employee doing a better job the next time and taking the time to do it right.

If these principles were applied, the wide variety of RV lenghts, styles, front/rear kitchen, etc would drastically diminish. "Variety" is a big part of how RV makers compete.
Catch 22?
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:47 AM   #11
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The main thing is that motorhomes are not going to fall out of the sky or sink, so there is much less incentive to make sure that they are properly constructed.

The only real incentive for the MFGs is when people vote with their wallet. Witness the quick rise in popularity of the Entegra brand. People perceive them as having higher build quality and they are flocking to them in droves.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:47 AM   #12
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Actually motorhomes are built better than most military aircraft, and at a fraction of the cost. Take the F18 and F35 for example. The F18 can be purchased for a mere $50,000,000.00. Add another $3,000,000.00 to $5,000,000.00 a year for "maintenance" and you've got a fairly dependable machine.

I say fairly dependable because they've been grounded a few times due to the fact they were developing cracks "faster than the engineers thought they should". That sotra means they were expected to need continual repairs other than routine maintenance to keep them flying.

The F35 has surpassed everyone's dreams, or is it nightmares? It was supposed to cost about the same $50,000,000.00 as the F18. Somehow costs have ballooned to over $100,000,000.00 and are still climbing. As for "maintenance costs", they're projected to be in the $5,000,000.00 per year range.

I guess that with a $3,000,000.00 to $5,000,000.00 "maintenance budget" there are more problems to deal with than your average motorhome.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:03 AM   #13
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Perhaps the Airplane-Motorhome comparison is a little strained; however the sentiment about MH/RV construction is right on.

Before we purchased ours we went to the factory and watched our model being built. At the end of the tour I was not so sure any longer that getting one was such a good idea.

But here we are 12 years later having endured the "shakedown" phase. I complained like crazy during the process, committed it to writing; even had responses from the Company President et al. I'm sure in the end all I did is bore a bunch of folks.

I'll quit now lest I do the same here.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:12 AM   #14
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Can not imagine 70 items, some people have high expectations, found this out from 42 years in the hotel business. Not going to please everybody by a long shot.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:19 AM   #15
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What we all would agree is a dismal record on quality control, pretty much across the RV spectrum, leaves a BIG opening for a new competitor, one absolutely committed to producing a problem free product. I suspect many would be willing to settle for fewer choices if that meant you could drive off the lot and not be expected back at the dealer before regular service was due.

My first new car was a 1972 model year. Back then it was assumed you'd be making a few visits back to the dealer for "adjustments". Once foreign competition showed it could be done better that forced the domestics to up their game too. The only warranty issue I can remember in our last four new vehicles was a door activated switch (for the dome lights) on our '07 Jeep.

As for less choice, you used to have a 100 different option combinations available from any of the "big three", on most any model. It was again the foreign competition that "discovered" they could increase both value and quality by simply building them all "he same". That's when we started seeing things that had been expensive options become standard - things like air conditioning, power windows and locks, etc.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
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...... On the other hand, when flying, if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!!!!! :-)

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LOVE THAT. I used to hear that on almost every Southwest flight, and think it is still part of their DNA. Think SW got a discount for the free promo? Probably not...
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:31 AM   #17
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I have had three motorhomes. Two different manufacturers. None of them have ever been to a repair shop or back to the dealer. Two were purchased new. I've gotten over 100,000 mi on the three of them and not even so much as a flat tire.

My guess is that of the hundred's of thousands of RV's on the road only a very small minority ever show up here and have complaints. When we see the number of recalls that GM has had recently, the motorhome industry looks pretty good for the complicated product that they put out.

I have no connection to the RV industry nor any manufacturer, just a retired happy RV'er.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:59 AM   #18
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Maintenance costs of even General Aviation aircraft are roughly 10% of the purchase price...yearly.

So a $150,000 Cirrus or Mooney or Piper is roughly 15k a year in maintenance, annuals and squawk items..(things that break).

I don't spend 10% of the purchase price of my MH...

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Old 06-19-2014, 08:08 AM   #19
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WOW - Will you buy me some lottery tickets then ?!?

I think this is my 7th or so rv - heck, have lost count !

and this latest one is the worst...
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:15 AM   #20
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I have had three motorhomes. Two different manufacturers. None of them have ever been to a repair shop or back to the dealer. Two were purchased new. I've gotten over 100,000 mi on the three of them and not even so much as a flat tire.

My guess is that of the hundred's of thousands of RV's on the road only a very small minority ever show up here and have complaints. When we see the number of recalls that GM has had recently, the motorhome industry looks pretty good for the complicated product that they put out.

I have no connection to the RV industry nor any manufacturer, just a retired happy RV'er.
I basically agree and you inject a note of sanity; but the reality in my opinion lies somewhere between your experience and the person with seventy complaints. One thing that baffled me when we bought our MH (our first only and last) was the kind of universal acceptance of the so called "shakedown" phase of ownership. It seemed to be a right of passage agreed to by acclamation.

Actually when I relive our experience it was not the "faults" in our MH that drove me crazy it was the sloppy manner in which the matters were attended too. Basically human folly drove me nuts. I went from being a reasonably calm "don't over state things" kind of person to a raving zealot determined to get literally every little thing fixed. I was eking out retribution for the way I was being treated after investing a substantial amount of money in "their" product.

Of course much of the fault belonged to the dealer. Basically the MH was sound and has been but returning over and over again to get one piece of service done correctly was maddening. It is not a problem peculiar to the MH industry but it has found a comfortable home there IMHO.

In our case and overall I guess we would say we are happy and satisfied with our choice and after all our experience. Unfortunately saying so makes me feel I am part of the conspiracy of "below average" when it comes to servicing what is sold.
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