Gas vs Diesel

[LUMPY]

Hello everyone,
What a great site. My wife and I have a 2002 Adventurer which is gas.
We're looking at a 2006 Journey which is diesel. I understand about more power and engine should last longer but I really want to know what any of you think the pluses and minuses are between gas and diesel.
Any info at all would be helpful. We're relatively new at the Class A, but we've had some kind of trailer or 5th wheel for the last 40 years. Sure do love the one we currently have.

[RickO]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

If you use our search function and type "gas vs diesel" you'll find more information and debate on the topic than you can imagine.

My own summary on the topic is that unless you full time and/or spend a lot of time out west in the mountains... you don't really "need" a diesel. It can be argued that even if you travel in the western mountains you don't need a diesel but that's an excuse a lot of us use.

The bottom line in my mind is that the best reason to get a diesel is because you WANT one. Don't even try to make a financial case to justify a diesel because I just don't think the numbers come close to working.

Best of luck to you!

Rick


rick

[Dadeaux]

I read a story one time about a farmer who wanted a new tractor and his wife was putting up a strong argument against it. Finally she said "you don't need a new tractor" to which he replied "I didn't need you but I wanted you" he got tractor.

Truthfully that's why many of us drive a diesel.

[NLOVNIT]

Hi LUMPY, :welcome:. We're glad you're here.

I'm in the same camp as Rick. Unless you're going to do more than weekend & a few extended vacations camping, having a diesel isn't worth the cost. When we bought our 2006 gas Bounder, we were also looking at a diesel Bounder. For us, it came down to use & price, but we also used this pro/con list:

Diesel pros: Air ride, more carrying capacity, higher hitch rating, available in lengths above 40ft, upgraded interiors (at the time that meant ceramic floors, solid surface counters, LCD TV's, residental fridges...etc. many available on gas units now), higher resale value

Diesel cons: Much higher initial cost, more costly to maintain, have to deal with truck lanes at travel plazas, higher fuel price, intimidating (for us) to work on ourselves

Gas pros: Lower initial cost, less costly to maintain, less intimidating to work on ourselves, ease of getting gas, lower fuel cost, ease of getting chassis service (we have a Ford & Ford truck centers are plentiful), available in shorter lengths (easier maneuverability)

Gas cons: Harsher ride (without modifications), lower hitch rating, lower carrying capacity, lower resale value

You'll probably hear more from our members. Good luck & let us know what you get.

Lori-

[RVThere]

See I think going the the truck plazas for diesel fuel is a 'pro'. It is much easier filling up there than trying to dodge all the cars in gas lanes!

Otherwise Lori is right on target.

[High Plains]

We went with gas for the lower price. We are still working and may get an out of state trip once a year if lucky. Funny thing was DW didn't like any of the DP's we looked at.

[goldwingerx2]

We downsized from a 37 ft DP to a 34 ft gas. Yes the DP had more power and better ride, but for us the higher maintancence wasn't worth it. We put about 12000 miles a year on ours. I pull the same 10000 lbs with the gas. I don't go up the mountains as fast, but I can come down just a fast if I wanted to. It is much cheaper to do the things needed on the gas engine. I think it boils down to a personal thing either is a great ride, so get what you can afford and want. Floorplan is important.

[Bug512]

Even though we just purchased our 2004 Adventurer, we looked into a used diesel as well. Higher maintenance costs kept us away. maybe we will change our minds in a couple of years but the newer diesels look like a nightmare with the particulate filters and the DEF fluid that needs to be added.

I wonder if older used diesels and newer gas A's will be in more demand because of this?

[smlranger]

Lori has pretty much nailed it. We went from gas to diesel primarily because I just wanted a DP. I still work full time and we travel 5,000 - 6,000 miles per year if we get lucky. We've been out West in the big mountains twice and the diesel torque was nice, but there were plenty of gas motorhomes everywhere we were.

None of these things are cheap to keep but a diesel coach will be more expensive to maintain, especially if you have to pay someone else to do all your maintenance.

Only you can decide. Drive a DP and compare what you will get in terms of power, ride quality, CCC, and other stuff and see if it is worth it to you.

[LUMPY]

You are all awesome. Things I think I had known but you put them in perspective for us. We do live in Oregon. The mountains have not proven to be a problem climbing. In fact a little kick out of passing other motor homes and semi's. Thank you all for the education and I'm sure I'll have more questions as time goes on but were certainly not unhappy with what we hae right now.

[ihbond]

For us we went with gas. able to pull our jeep wrangler and have quite comfortable with 3 german shepherd dawgs + 2 adults.

We average about 21k a year.

For us it was about price, and not breaking the bank,

Lori has my vote though for what you are looking for. REMEBER ALL RV'S are MONEY PITS!
Gas Engines Vs. Diesel Engines | eHow.com

[Grimesy]

After 2 gas rigs with about 100K on each we got our dream 40 foot DP which has turned into a nightmare of excessive repairs, lack of repair facilities and the dark cloud of what will go wrong the next time we take it out. If we ever buy again it will be a gas rig, period.

Don, FMCA,Good Sam, WIT and Freightliner member

[Midniteoyl]

I wonder if older used diesels and newer gas A's will be in more demand because of this?

Just wait for Direct Injected gas.. Electric Assisted Direct Injected will kill the diesel in all but commercial use unless they can make it more viable..

[Pelledan]

I spent my entire working life on the R&D end of diesel engines. Thirty years ago they were much simpler than a gasoline engine but today they are just as complex. Today all truck diesels are turbocharged for performance and EPA compliance and naturally aspirated engines can only be found now in the small cost effective automobile applications and even then they are rareity. If you were to strip away all hype about the differences in the two engines and get down to the basics, it’s all about torque. Torque is the work that the engine will produce. Unlike a gasoline engine where its maximum torque can be held for just a few minutes before the heat it’s generating becomes another problem, a diesel can run at its maximum torque output for days and weeks and would only need to be shut down for its scheduled oil service before returning to its maximum output again. Nearly every RV application with a gasoline engine will use a V-8 configuration. The V-8 is a higher speed engine typically creating its maximum torque in the 4000 RPM range where its speed enhances its pulling power. Nearly all diesel RV’s and trucks use an in-line 6 cylinder engine configuration where maximum torque is generated in the 1400-1800 RPM range. Nothing … I’ll repeat that, … Nothing can beat the low end torque output of an in-line 6 cylinder diesel. Their off-the-line grunt is what makes them the brutes they are and that’s ideal for heavy weights like an RV and any truck pulling a trailer. Fuel economy is an unsung aspect of diesels. When compared to similarly weighted vehicles powered by a gasoline engine, the diesel will typically get 15-20% better fuel economy and that savings easily offsets the price differences in the fuel and puts a good dent in the higher maintenance cost. Most of that higher maintenance cost is accounted for in the diesel’s oil capacity & filtration vs. a gasoline engine. The days of the backyard mechanic are all but gone. Today’s engines, both gasoline and diesel, are mechanically and electronically beyond the ability of the average person to repair. The familiarity of the spark plug can give some people a false sense of confidence when viewing a gasoline engine, but in most cases their knowledge will stop there. I probably rambled on a bit more than I should have here and as someone stated earlier, the big question is how you will use your RV. If your travels will rarely bring you into the mountains or their foot hills, you’ll be fine with gasoline.
Dan

[nsdienes]

Surprised no one mentioned noise. We put about 11K per year on our Meridian. Buying a DP from our 2000 Adventurer was not an economic decision. Like many we wanted one. That said, the biggest difference for us is the quiet. We can talk to each other now. We got so tired of listening to the 4000 rpm scream of the Ford whenever we hit a hill or head wind. Even after Banks the downshift occured more often than not.

[JMonroe]

If I was still working, and our use would continue to be only weekend outings and maybe a two week trip once per year, I'd probably still own the gasser. Now that I'm retired, and we're working toward realizing our dream of full timing, I really wanted to move to a diesel.

Firstly, any gasser exceeding 30', loaded until the storage bay doors can hardly be closed, and pulling a toad that exceeds 4k lbs, is taxed pulling grades and I always worried about the potential for over heating the engine or tranny, especially on a hot summer day with the A/C pumping as fast as it can. For a full time rig we'd want something in the 40' range, and I'd just spend too much time stressing over the drive train stresses. We've not yet had the time or flexability to explore the rocky mountain states to any extent and part of that was I was always worried about whether or not the gasser rigs we've owned were up to the task. Additionally, God and our government willing, we hope to put a LOT more miles on our rig once we're both retired and full time. Anicdotal testiments to the contrary, most gassers past 100k miles, with the heavy service required of them to pull 30k lbs, or more, become suspect. We've owned rigs in the past that would turn every attempted trip into a new adventure at the local mechanic shop and it's no fun. Yes, any rig can and will experience problems, but I'm looking to move the odds in our favor.

With our DP I now have zero concerns as to whether or not the rig will be able to handle the steepest and longest of grades. I have no concerns about the miles we put on it (assuming we can afford the fuel). We've weighed the rig and I sincerely doubt we'll ever begin to approach it's GVWR or it's GCWR. In spite of a gross weight difference, over our last 34' gas class A, to account for a nice class C, it still gets better fuel economy than any of the gas rigs we've owned in the last 25 years. That includes motor homes or towables.

As for the increased maintenance costs, I've not owned our DP long enough to make a direct comparison, but I tend to follow manufacturers recommendations very closely for service intervals. For the same over all miles driven I think the diesel may be slightly higher, but I'm not sure. Our V10, under the '07 Allegro Open Road, was to be serviced every 3k miles, or once per year. Having just read the Cummins manual, they recommend service once every 15 to 20k miles, or once per year. Another reason that if your only use is local and an occasional vacation trip, the gasser may be more economical. 7 or 8 quarts vs several gallons. If, on the other hand, you'll put 15k miles on the rig in a year, that's 5 service intervals vs 1. It was costing me around $70 to have the Allegro serviced. From what I've read, I'm thinking regular service on the diesel won't be much more, on an annual basis. That is with the understanding, however, that any mechanical issues, once off warranty, are likely to cost much more for the DP. Oh, and the noise mentioned above? He's exactly right. Shouting to be heard over the gasser (do a search and see how many threads there are concerning how to dampen that noise) to normal conversational levels, even when pulling a grade.

Bottom line, it's a personal choice. There are some that will rabidly insist that the 'perceived' diesel advantage is based solely on hype and myth and others just as 'enthusiastic' about diesel. In truth, both have their place in the RV market. It's your job to determine which will suit your needs, taste and budget best, and we can all relate. We've all been there.

Good hunting.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Pelledan

...... Fuel economy is an unsung aspect of diesels. When compared to similarly weighted vehicles powered by a gasoline engine, the diesel will typically get 15-20% better fuel economy and that savings easily offsets the price differences in the fuel and puts a good dent in the higher maintenance cost. Most of that higher maintenance cost is accounted for in the diesel’s oil capacity & filtration vs. a gasoline engine......................Dan

DAN: I agree with everything you stated about the power of a diesel and its suitability to propel a MH. However, I think your statements quoted above are a little optimistic, at best. Using your claim of 20% better MPG and factoring in ONLY a $.25 per gallon difference in fuel cost, I don't think the numbers support your contention of "easily offseting the price difference". To support my postion, here are my calculations:

UL gas @ $3.00/gal VS Diesel @ $3.25/gal

6.5 MPG = $.4615/mile VS 20% better= 7.8 MPG = $.4166/mile

Therefore, with a cost per mile "savings" of $.0449 per mile, running a DP 10,000 miles per year saves $449.00 per year in fuel costs.

Many gassers get better than 6.5 MPG, but I doubt many DPs actually get better than 7.8 MPG pushing their heavier loads. Regardless, even if a gas owner is buying synthetic motor oil at $6.00/quart and changing the oil & filter every 3,000 miles, the annual maint cost for a gas engine is considerably cheaper than that of a diesel. As you stated, a diesel requires much more oil and more expensive filters. I conceed the frequency of service is less on a diesel, but certainly not the cost. Add the fact that many gasser owners can change the oil & filter themselves, I think the maintenance cost savings of gas engines exceeds the fuel cost savings of diesel.

There are lots of reasons many folks want a DP, and that is their choice to make, but I hope this discussion will shed some light on the true costs of operating these beasts.
Respectfully,
Ed

[Bug512]

Time to get out the excel spreadsheet !!

Ed, I like your posts and you state that the "frequency is less on a diesel".. but is it?

If you have a DP and you only put 3,000 miles on it on one year, even-though the milage factor is not there wouldn't you still need to change the oil?

So gas or diesel, you are changing the oil at least once per year.

I know some topics come up over and over but it is interesting to chat about them..

[RickO]

Originally Posted by edgray

DAN:

There are lots of reasons many folks want a DP, and that is their choice to make, but I hope this discussion will shed some light on the true costs of operating these beasts.
Respectfully,
Ed

Well said. I LOVE my DP but won't even try to justify it's cost on any objective level. All the "pros" are really nice but they cost money. But, what the heck... we can't take it with us.

Rick

[GaryKD]

Hi LUMPY,
I purchase a coach based on my floor plan and storage requirements. Since 1978 I've had a gas coach. In 2005 the wife decided it was time for a new coach. We made a commitment to show our Gkids the USA before they go to college. The wife didn't want to take the Gkids on long trips with an "old" coach.

Based on our needs, I could not find a gas powered coach that would work. All the floor plans we considered were diesel. This was due to the weight of the coach. To tell you the truth, this made me look very hard at every gas powered coach I thought would work. I did not want to make the change to a diesel powered coach. We got the current coach (diesel). The floor plans works perfectly for us and the diesel has been a learning experience but things are under control.

My story is to steer you to making the floor plan and storage your top priority. What engine comes with the coach might be better put lower on the list of things to consider.