diesel engine shutting down: Need some quick advice

mycoolbeans · 09-16-2010, 07:54 PM

I'm hoping to get a quick read and some helpful direction on an issue that emerged today. I have a 2004 Winnebago Journey with a Cat 330 engine. We are on our way to a conference in Dana Point, California.
Have driven from Pennsylvania without incident until today (9/16/2010).
I'll give a few details concerning today's trip. Some of this detail may be totally irrelevant, but I need to find a resolution to my problem quickly because of the schedule I must keep. If I sound desperate, I am.

Upon departure this morning, we stopped at a truck wash and had the motorhome and suv washed. From there I drove over to a Love's Fuel Stop and purchased about 29 gallons of diesel fuel. From there we drove 239 miles from Kingman to Indio, California. Our route was along I-40, into California, and then down US 95 to State Route 62 and 177 to I-10. This route was through very dry desert and it was very hot....95 to 103 degrees fahenheit. Journey ran very well. No problems until I reached our campground in Indio. Checked in, drove to our assigned site. Backed into the space to position the rig. Got out of rig, to check how I was positioned, and then the engine shut down. Temperature now was 110 degrees. I checked the engine temperature and it was ok. I did not get any warning lights at all. Nothing showed on the info center lightbar. I tried three or four times to start the engine. The engine would start up, idle for 10 seconds or so, and shut down again. I wondered about vapor lock of some sort. I thought that maybe waiting until it cooled outside would help. When the temperature dropped to 103, I tried again. Same result. I'm at a loss at this point. I'll place calls to Freightliner, Coachnet, and try to find a diesel service center that can resolve this issue in the morning.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions. It is hotter than hell here in Indio, and that hasn't helped my disposition. Appreciate anyone who might help me focus on what could cause this issue. Thanks for your help

04Crescendo · 09-16-2010, 08:10 PM

Complete guesses of course...Clogging fuel filter or water in the fuel filter? Sounds like the symptoms. Good luck.

RVThere · 09-16-2010, 08:19 PM

Sounds fuel related to me. Have you tried running to WalMart and buying some Diesel Fuel Supplement. I just read my bottle and it says it disperses water in fuel year round.

One other thing you can do tonight is drain your fuel/water separator. Looks like an oil filter but has a knob with a drain on the bottom. Have a pan ready to catch the fuel and water that comes out.

Good man · 09-16-2010, 08:21 PM

Agree with 04Crescendo...

In addition to that, a failed fuel cut-off solenoid coul cause the same symptoms.
To check that:
While you are listening at the engine, have someone turn the ignition switch to "ON" and no further.
You should hear a distinctive "click" as the fuel solenoid is energized to pull a plunger allowing fuel to enter the engine. It should also click as the ignition key is returned to the "OFF" position, thus stopping the fuel flow.
If you do not hear this clicking, look for a blown fuse or for some other reason the solenoid is not activating.
Good luck,
Jim

EngineerMike · 09-16-2010, 08:47 PM

Guarantee it is fuel delivery. Now just gotta isolate the reason fuel delivery is suspended. Reasons include those mentioned above, and
- lift pump failed; usually you would notice that at speed while fuel demand is high, but it depends on specifically when & how it fails. True test is pressure test, along w/monitoring of lift pump demand voltage
- injection pump failing; not likely as it would ordinarily be at high fuel demand
- injectors failing; I believe on an 04 you have electronic injectors. These can be read by a shop w/Cat software.
- ECM signal to shut down engine; always (I think) accompanied by a check engine light
- electrical circuit intermittent "open" on fuel delivery someplace; on an electronic injection model there are a lot of possibilities for this. The easy ones are accompanied by gauges shutting down same time or some other indicator that you have lost a main ground or main power feed. I recall reading about a Freightliner chassis problem like this w/an intermittent in the resetting 12V breaker on a cable that ran front to back along the chassis; it was like a 150A breaker and replacing it fixed the intermittent. This would be best addressed under the chassis forum pertaining to your coach, while the more specifically fuel related intermittents would be easier to dope out w/the help of other Cat owners. Since this is a chassis thing, you might try moving to that forum w/the same background & questions.

ernieh · 09-16-2010, 09:36 PM

I always carry a couple of spare fuel filters for just such an occasion. Just a guess, but I'll bet that your fuel filter has been clogged for some time, possibly because of algae. It's probably been hot and damp where you live, and if your tank was not kept topped off, algae can form. You got as far as you did because your fuel system was not tested by the hot conditions. The operation at your destination just caused more heat to build up around the fuel tank and engine. 110 dropping to 103 is not going to significantly change the conditions within your fuel system.

I would give it another try in the morning and if it starts, make a quick trip to the nearest facility that can check it out.

movin-on · 09-17-2010, 06:52 AM

If it's not fuel related, check your coolant and oil levels...Some Cats are programmed to shut down if levels are low especially coolant...Your coolant level sensor is on the expansion tank...Check the wiring...Good Luck and let us know...

BucknJeff · 09-17-2010, 08:11 AM

Any dashboard trouble lights?

Any buzzers ringing when it shuts down?

When it will start, will it rev up to the governor?

skigramp · 09-17-2010, 09:34 PM

If the coolant is low a buzzer goes off and a red light turns ON ..

This was one of the things I learned when my surge tank ruptured earlier this year.

sumochi · 09-18-2010, 10:56 AM

try pumping hand primer if the engine has one. if the engine runs on hand primer, fuel transfer pump is most likey problem these pumps have check valves that fail quite often.

powderman · 09-18-2010, 02:00 PM

If it was water in the fuel, I would expect to see gray smoke in the exhaust. Probably a fuel filter (if your lucky) or a pump (if your not)

flashnyellow · 09-18-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skigramp

If the coolant is low a buzzer goes off and a red light turns ON ..

This was one of the things I learned when my surge tank ruptured earlier this year.

Is the red light the one with the arrow pointing to below?

Or is it in the cluster? If it is in the cluster does anyone know what this light is for. I have never seen it on. 2005 Journey 39K

Ronnie

cbeierl · 09-18-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashnyellow

Is the red light the one with the arrow pointing to below?

Or is it in the cluster? If it is in the cluster does anyone know what this light is for. I have never seen it on. 2005 Journey 39K

Ronnie

I believe that this is actually the infrared receiver for your steering wheel radio remote control, rather than a light.

flashnyellow · 09-18-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbeierl

I believe that this is actually the infrared receiver for your steering wheel radio remote control, rather than a light.

Thanks Chris. Finding out new things everyday.

Ronnie

mycoolbeans · 09-18-2010, 10:51 PM

Thanks to all of you who sent responses to my previous post. I am in an area that does not have a Freightliner or Caterpillar service area close by. In fact, there is only one diesel service outfit that advertises 24 hour emergency service. I called and made a connection with the owner of this business who came out with a mechanic to look at my motorhome and diagnos the reason for the shut down. These two guys did not have any type of computer or way of checking codes. They asked me to try and start the engine which did not respond. Then they sprayed some ether in the fuel lines and the engine did start up momentarily. After a bit of scrambling around under the coach and looking at the engine via the opening under the bed, I was told that it was probably a defective transfer pump. The guys didn't have a transfer pump and indicated that one would have to be ordered from a Cat facility and wouldn't be here until Monday. I indicated that I was on a very tight schedule and due at a conference. I asked how far away the Cat facility was and volunteered to drive over to the facility and pick up the transfer pump and related gaskets, bolts, etc. which I did. However, over the course of the day, I grew more and more uneasy about how all this was playing out. I just lacked confidence that the problem was truly pinpointed. The Cat facility that I mentioned was 70+miles away. I called Coach Net and asked if having my rig towed to the Cat facility was possible. After explaining my issue in some detail, I was told that I could have the rig towed. I've made arrangements to have this done. I am much more at ease knowing that the Cat service facility will have the equipment and personnel to pinpoint this problem. It may very well be the transfer pump which is at fault. But, I was uneasy with how the diagnosis was first made and the fact that the mechanic seemed not to have any room to really work easily under the coach. At one point I asked the boss how confident on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest he was with nailing down this issue. He didn't directly respond to my question which definitely lowered my confidence in the course of action we were pursuing. I will post another thread in an effort to let readers of the forum and my posts know how this all played out. I appreciate the comments and advice that the twelve members offered. I do think it is a fuel problem (obviously), but whether a transfer pump, sensor, solenoid, or whatever, I want to be sure. Being 2700 miles from home with a problem of this nature is unsettling to say the least. I have had the rig towed before and know what to expect and how it should be done. I hope that I've made the right choice. I will soon find out.

movin-on · 09-19-2010, 05:53 AM

You made the right choice....Spraying ether into a diesel is a no no and can cause damage...

movin-on · 09-28-2010, 05:53 AM

Did your no start problem get solved....

mycoolbeans · 09-28-2010, 05:54 PM

My problem got fixed. I had the motorhome towed via CoachNet. They were excellent. Hooked me up with Plaza Towing in Indio, Ca. "Buddy" hooked up motorhome, took off driveshaft, and got me to Johnson Power Systems in Colton, Ca. 70 miles away. He did an excellent job. As I said, the cost was covered by CoachNet. Coach Net was helpful overall in making all arrangements. Johnson Power System is a Cat facility. The problem was a failed Huei Pump (sp). Cost of repair....ding, ding, ding, $2500.00. This was covered by Good Sam Continued Service Protection. I have a $100.00 deductible. CSP covered $2400.00 plus the cost of my having to stay in a motel room for two nights. CSP required my service records for the past two years, plus I had the service manager call prior to the repair. The service manager explained everyting and CSP was very helpful and cooperative. I was indeed quite fortunate. I'm still in California, but now heading home to Pennsylvania. Hopefully, no more motorhome problems. This has been a bit of a hassle, but if one is going to have a motorhome, one has to go with the flow as they say. But while going with the flow, be sure that you have Coachnet, Good Sam CSP, and that you have records that show you have taken good care of the rig. Thanks for your inquiry as to how things went. And thanks to all for previous suggestions and help.

movin-on · 09-29-2010, 07:13 AM

Glad things turned out ok and since I have Coach-Net and Good Sam CSP even better....That $2500.00 is the reason I have a CSP...It only takes one time..