Weighed Coach NOW WHAT??????

[flaggship1]

FIRE UP
4 paragraphs of specifics on successfully running over weight bracketed by - it's up to you and I'm not telling you to so it, seems pretty approving and reassuring to me.

It's clear many people run overweight. And, like pushing the limits of anything, nothing is a problem until it is a problem, and then it's too late. Given the low probability of my being near anyone over weight is low (I get clear of all RVs as quickly as I can) it is still no reason to just say - what the heck, go for it. That said - free country and your coach, life, liability and loved ones.

What's truly sad is that so many discussions of weight and capacity begin post purchase. And what's worse is manufacturers producing rigs that border on overloaded when they leave the assembly line. Couple that with a salesman that you can inform of intended use and he will still not show you where the required sticker is with detailed weights including carrying capacity. So it's buyer beware, and threads like this where people rationalize their way into things, and seek assurance that numbers are arbitrary and for reference only. Sure, some get away with everything, some get caught every time the break the sped limit.

As you said - you, the OP, all of us can do as we please. But giving any credence to a bad idea is a bad idea IMHO. I'm with Don - I feel bad for the OP - if they bought a weekender or vacationer with intent to full time, a mistake was made. Put my 2 cents in the jar with the rest of em.
Steve

[targaboat]

This thread has run is course for no one agrees. I have a potential solution, contact the manufacturer of the axle, it probably is Meritor and with patience and persistence talk to some one in the engineering department and ask them what their rating for that axle is for light duty applications. Or to be more exact tell them it is a motor home and that vehicle wise you are not over weight. You will need the model number and the serial number which will be on a name plate near the center of the axle.

Ratings are set for working applications such as UPS trucks. Therefore, I can guarantee that you will never put enough miles on your coach to wear out the axle. And since you are not off roading you will never brake it as well. The air suspension system, while it does not transfer weight, is self adjusting for ride height where within reason weight is not an issue in the ride of the vehicle.

If you still have energy and this response turns out negative, take the issue to Winnebago. You might even contact Winnebago next. A forum is not a place to get real answers for the knowledge of the people responding is extremely variable and in the long run, you the owner, is the responsible individual to research the issue and make the decision.

[D Lindy]

Hadn't hear about the 014's having a 23000 lb. rear axle rating, will contact Winnebago about this. Also YES the fresh water tank is right behind the FRONT axle, I can see it, so water weight is no issue with the load capacity I still have on the rear axle. The Black and Grey Tanks are about 3/4's of the way back toward the rear axle, but both were empty. In a month when I take the unit to the dealers for winterization, I'll be going by the same CAT scale I weight it on yesterday, and will have the unit empty and reweigh then. Also my TOTAL rear tire capacity is over 26000lbs, so no worry there as far as the tires go & I can only guess if the rims are appropriate for the tire capacity.

[pocketchange]

Question with reference to steering axle weight;
Did not the DOT increase max weight recently for motor homes (couple of years ago)?

As for concern about being stopped and weighted (not to worry), in 5 decades of bumping up and down USA highways I have NEVER witnessed a motor home sitting on a set of scales.

I'd be (more) concerned about tire pressures, speed, road and driving conditions (& I'm anal about this).

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by pocketchange

Question with reference to steering axle weight;
Did not the DOT increase max weight recently for motor homes (couple of years ago)?

As for concern about being stopped and weighted (not to worry), in 5 decades of bumping up and down USA highways I have NEVER witnessed a motor home sitting on a set of scales.

I'd be (more) concerned about tire pressures, speed, road and driving conditions (& I'm anal about this).

Axle weights were increased for the interstate system to match those of buses. However, that doesn't apply to state and local roads except for "reasonable access".

This isn't an issue of whether or not one gets stopped and weighed. The OP didn't raise that as his concern. The real issue is that MH manufacturers have in some cases ignored common sense in developing a coach design. It makes no sense that a MH gets to a dealer with insufficient USEABLE CCC to meet the basic needs of the customer. By useable I mean that as pointed out in the OP's situation, one axle will get maxed out before GVWR is reached.

No RV should get to a lot without a sticker that provides SPECIFIC axle and corner weights so the customer knows what they are getting. Properly done it should be able to provide data on weight with any volume of fuel, fresh water, and propane. It should even be able to provide changes in corner weights based on this data. Of course, we are talking in terms of AS DELIVERED. Any dealer options that do not add more than, say, 200# would be noted to include that weight but not evaluated.

This should be in plain language so that a novice can understand it. After all, we were all novices at one point.

I do not want to argue with anyone that chooses to run outside of the manufacturer's design. That is a personal choice but I would caution others that such a practice could open an individual to personal liability actions if the situation arises. It could also be basis for denial of insurance coverage according to some sources but that is hotly debatable. Finally, it is hard to support a position based on something good or bad not happening to the individual. The fact that nothing has happened yet is not evidence that the practice is sound. It just means that the law of averages has spared someone from the impact of running on or near the edge of the cliff.

[Statgeek]

Whew.. I just weighed my new coach yesterday, and thankfully I came up a few thousand under weight. My rear axle was about 1k under and my front axel was about 2k under.. I normally travel with full water tanks though, and my 100gal tank was empty. That'll add 750 lbs (tank is slightly forward of center, so more weight on front axel but not by much.) When I then put on my human cargo (family), and food in the fridge, and clothing, I still think I'll be underweight--but not by much. I can't say I'm surprised though, as I packed my basements pretty darn full with all the cooking and camping supplies I have used to date. Nothing was left at home for the scales to miss. I guess I'm better off than some folks out there. Sympathies to the OP.

I would ad that if the coach is pushing the limits completely empty, the OP may have a valid case against the coach manufacturer.

Weight limits could be increased by installing different wheels, tires, and/or air bags.. Expensive stuff, so I'd likely start leaving some things home.

[vsheetz]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

UMMMM...300# would be the correct answer. It would actually unload a little weight off the front axle.

Adding 300 lbs to the very back of the coach adds 300 lbs to the rear axle and reduces the weight on the front axle. So adding 300 lbs to the coach reduces the overall weight of the coach? Help me to understand this.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

This is not the first case of a MH not being properly designed to carry what it needs to carry. MR_D will attest that even Newmar missed the boat on this in the past.

I wish I felt better after this rant but I don't. I feel bad for the OP.

Yep, I can attest to it!

On our 2002 DSDP the front axle was overweight before we ever loaded anything or even got onboard ourselves. Only fix was a new front axle.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by pocketchange

Question with reference to steering axle weight;
Did not the DOT increase max weight recently for motor homes (couple of years ago)?

As for concern about being stopped and weighted (not to worry), in 5 decades of bumping up and down USA highways I have NEVER witnessed a motor home sitting on a set of scales.

I'd be (more) concerned about tire pressures, speed, road and driving conditions (& I'm anal about this).

True, I think it was in 2012 that they started allowing RV's to have a rear axle rating up to 23,000#'s

[PushedAround]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

Adding 300 lbs to the very back of the coach adds 300 lbs to the rear axle and reduces the weight on the front axle. So adding 300 lbs to the coach reduces the overall weight of the coach? Help me to understand this.

Adding 300 lbs to the coach will increase it's weight by 300 lbs, no more and no less. Where you place it will affect how much of that weight is carried by the front axle and how much by the back. If you put it directly over the rear axle, then it will carry all of the 300 lbs and the front will carry none of it. If you place it behind the rear axle (30 years of Porsche experience here) then the rear will carry more than the 300 lbs, and an equal amount will come OFF of the front axle.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Statgeek

...Weight limits could be increased by installing different wheels, tires, and/or air bags....

Yes and no.

The ultimate determination of GAWR is the manufacturer. As an example, my Spartan IFS is rated by Spartan @ 14,600# but Newmar de-rates it to 14,200#. This is because of tire selection and building in a cushion for L/R balance. They also chose to use 305/70R tires all the way around instead of something like 315/80Rs.

If the coach is nearly equally balanced L/R those tires can support 14,600# and not exceed tire weight ratings but it requires 115 PSI. While my tires are rated up to 120 PSI I am not wanting to exceed 115 PSI for various reasons including ride comfort.

Fortunately, my floor design is very well balanced. My current front axle weight is right at 14,120# which requires about 111-112 PSI. If I needed to I admit that I will run up to 14,600# and not sweat it one iota. That is my personal choice based on the following; I am not exceeding GVWR, Spartan's GAWR and not exceeding maximum tire pressure/weight ratings. I also know that each hour I drive it I will lose at least 60# as I burn fuel which is almost entirely on the front axle.

If they had opted for 315/80s this wouldn't have been an issue at all but then those would be like balloons on by drive and tag axles not to mention the higher cost. It was a tactical decision they made. However, no mater what tires they put on the coach the max front axle weight would remain 14,600#.

I'm real versed in this subject. LOL BTW, I have considered investigating the possibility of running 315/80s up front but don't really think I will push that unless I start seeing that I am consistently pushing 14,500#. Keep in mind that I will probably loose some of the extra weight to large tires and maybe different rims. That doesn't count the issue regarding ride height that I might run into and would rather avoid. The biggest advantage of doing this would be that I would still have to run 115 PSI but on tires designed for up to 130 PSI instead of 120 PSI.

Now, you brought up something I think is important regarding air bags. Certainly there has to be some limits on how much more they can support but I don't know what those are.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

Adding 300 lbs to the very back of the coach adds 300 lbs to the rear axle and reduces the weight on the front axle. So adding 300 lbs to the coach reduces the overall weight of the coach? Help me to understand this.

You got me there.

I over simplified the situation and incorrectly transferred some of the finer points since I have a tag axle. With a tag axle weight on the back of the coach, like a motor cycle, is added to the tag wheels and removed from the front axle. Even then, there are a couple variations of a theme. Tag height is one since on some coaches that can be adjusted. The other is tire pressure. I run 10-15 PSI higher on the drive axle compared to the tax axle to let weigh on the rear help reduce weight on the front. In effect I am using my drive axle a bit like a fulcrum. I run a spread sheet that basically calculates how many pounds per PSI is being support by each tire on the tag and drive wheels. I inflate my drive wheels to a point the support less weight per PSI than the tag there by they stay "rounder". If I don't do that then more weight is on the front wheels. It is relatively small but I am within 80# of Newmar's GAWR so why not?

YES...most folks that follow my long winded postings know I am rather anal about things in general and extremely so about weight an balance. LOL My apologies.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

Adding 300 lbs to the coach will increase it's weight by 300 lbs, no more and no less. Where you place it will affect how much of that weight is carried by the front axle and how much by the back. If you put it directly over the rear axle, then it will carry all of the 300 lbs and the front will carry none of it. If you place it behind the rear axle (30 years of Porsche experience here) then the rear will carry more than the 300 lbs, and an equal amount will come OFF of the front axle.

[Libero]

Pusharound

100% correct. By adding 300# anywhere adds 300# to the GVW. HOWEVER, with the 300# aft of the rear axel the C of G shifts to the rear more, thus more than 300# is applied to the rear axel. This is easy to calculate knowing the wheelbase, distance from the rear axel to the additional load etc. Anytime you put an additional load fore or aft (or side to side) of the current C of G, the dynamics change and the C of G shifts accordingly. If the additional load was placed between the axels, then the 300# would be proportionally shared between the front and rear axels. If it was exactly at the C of G then 150# added to each axel.

As a very long time Aeronautical Engineer, I have dealt with weight and balance issues many times, albeit this is obviously more critical in aircraft scenarios, but still important for any moving craft. There are tolerances for most situations but I recommend operation within the allowed tolerances. I have been on many aviation accident investigation boards and while the aircraft may be within its payload limits but the distribution was ignored and the aircraft crashed. I don't know if road vehicle accidents are given the same degree of examination but IMHO, know the limits and stay within them.

Good luck with getting the weight and balance sorted out,

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

I am not assuming anything and I hear where you are coming from. The facts are that it was weighed without even adding water. I think we can also agree that packed for vacation means it will still weigh more when it is loaded for full time. Also, unless the guy is carrying a rock collection (funny true story about another coach being overloaded) I doubt the OP can unload 920# of stuff off the rear axle.

Granted, it would be nice for a full picture if the OP had weighed it before loading it to see just how much it was. Still, let's assume for the sake of argument they unloaded 1800# off the rear axle. That means that with full water the axle would be nearly maxed out already. IMHO...that is NOT an acceptable starting point for any MH, especially a DP.

Yup ... I'm just sayin' that it's hard to know what's happening unless you know the As Delivered Weight. And yes ... there is far less "stuff" that you can put in an RV than can be expected by a purchaser.

What I am taking away from this discussion is that I am going to my coach and starting over ... you accumulate "stuff" pretty quickly that can better be stored at home (or sold/trashed/whatever). For example, I have far too many books/guides/etc. in the overhead. It's not like I don't know what state I'm going to on our next trip. How many cans of chili do I really need? Do I really need to carry 4 pairs of vicegrips? I have a lot of opportunity to reduce the load.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

...What I am taking away from this discussion is that I am going to my coach and starting over ... you accumulate "stuff" pretty quickly that can better be stored at home (or sold/trashed/whatever). For example, I have far too many...

Yes...Sandee accumulates lots of shoes! 2 pair this week. LOL

For some of us with rigs that have lots of CCC we have room to accumulate "stuff". Unfortunately, the OP appears to be stuck in a MH that is somewhat lacking in CCC. In my research that brought us to our DSDP, even in the Newmar line a 4 slide, non-tag MH was CCC challenged.

Having previously owned a Winnebago and researching Winnebago/Itasca I became concerned about realistic CCC. Anecdotal stories from a few WIT owners seems to indicate similar issues.

AND....WE DON'T TRAVEL LIGHT!

[EDALLSAILS]

Why don't you remove all cargo from MH. then FILL with Fuel and water. Empty Grey & black tanks. Weigh all 4 corners. this will give you a more true load on each of the 4 corners EMPTY. This is the starting point. Now when you add cargo stuff weigh it and add weigh to which ever wheel it is nearest. You can also help your weigh at this point by draining fresh water to achieve desired 4 corner weights. many MH come from factories over weighted for the axels. Recently there was a post on a new $400,000 Winnie that was over weight on front axels with only fuel and couple on board. It is not unusual for Mh with slide on galley with refrig, cabinets to be heavy on that side. By trial and error you can get things balance for safety. Before I was comfortable with my 4 corner weight I loaded and unloaded 4 times, making adjustments between weighing. Do it for you and your families safety. Safe travels.. ed

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by EDALLSAILS

Why don't you remove all cargo from MH. then FILL with Fuel and water. Empty Grey & black tanks. Weigh all 4 corners. this will give you a more true load on each of the 4 corners EMPTY. This is the starting point. Now when you add cargo stuff weigh it and add weigh to which ever wheel it is nearest. You can also help your weigh at this point by draining fresh water to achieve desired 4 corner weights. many MH come from factories over weighted for the axels. Recently there was a post on a new $400,000 Winnie that was over weight on front axels with only fuel and couple on board. It is not unusual for Mh with slide on galley with refrig, cabinets to be heavy on that side. By trial and error you can get things balance for safety. Before I was comfortable with my 4 corner weight I loaded and unloaded 4 times, making adjustments between weighing. Do it for you and your families safety. Safe travels.. ed

Yes indeed ... And if not 4 corners at least F/R with same scenario.

[homeless]

Mount the Motor Cycle on the front! The cantilever with it hanging on the reviser will add a ton to the rear axle..

[njs42]

Sadly this condition exist on many, many coaches fresh from the factory. My guess is that it is a stunning number. Particularly gas coaches but as I read here diesel coaches are effected as well.

In my own circumstance I was completely new to this and purchased my first, one and only coach after determining the factory posted weight on many models and makes. I bought this coach for many reasons but an important one was the difference between the advertised weight and the gvwr.

Honestly I shopped for MH's that right in the literature had less than a thousand pounds difference between the build weight and the gross weight. You can't take the family to the beach for an afternoon w/o racking up a thousand pounds. The "overweight" coaches were being sold as fast as my model was. They are on the road today I'll hazard (pun).

For me it has been a constant struggle to keep the weight down on my rear axle. As pointed out a lot of stuff is expected to be in the rear of the coach. The bedroom is there and clothes do weigh more than you think, fuel tank, generator, propane and water tanks kind of hung out there on the end.

I work at this all the time and weigh before every trip. We are seasonal so we use the coach for about six months at a time. That is a half of a full timer; we take a lot of stuff.

I have traveled over weight sometimes knowingly other times I was a victim of weight creep which infects us all. The overweight varied from 200 pounds to 900 pounds. Ironically I have weight available on the front axle, I just cannot get it there by packing differently.

The solutions other than adding capacity to the rear axle is to move things around, put things in the toad and to constantly evaluate if you "need" this or not; husbands an wives are now dividing up community property over this discussion so be careful here. No, I'm not going to pile the clothing in the living room so we can travel but we have both taken stock and discovered what we actually wear while away and cut down. My tools are as far up front as I can move them and I have spread them out and made choices about how much of what I really need. It is not as handy as I like but it helps tremendously in balancing weight.

It is easy to get overweight, it is easy to buy overweight, but it is remarkably effective to make good choices about what to carry and to pack it properly. I was surprised at the difference I achieved the last time I did this.

It is shame, an industry wide shame, and shame on consumers for not revolting, but it is also a very common occurrence. I do the best I can to get the weight as low as possible then I go. I concern myself with it but my best guess is most people who own MH's do not.

As far as helping the OP I can't think of anything more superfluous than what I have just written. Except to say you are in the company of many.