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Old 12-24-2019, 04:21 PM   #1
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What current model refrigerators and mods are you using to replace your Norcold 1200?

There's many threads on replacing the Norcold 1200, however in most cases the refrigerators mentioned as being used as replacement fridges are no longer available, and in most cases no model numbers for the fridges used are given. Most seem to be using a Samsung, however many say they're not all that good. I have seen mention of GE's being used, Whirlpool, Fisher Paykel, and others. What models are current and being used now with good results? Also, if you could mention what coach and floor plan you have and what cabinet and other mods you needed to do to get it in there. Comments on before and after cabinet dimensions, new fridge dimensions, what mods needed to be made to the cabinets and how it was done would be helpful too. Also, how did you get the old fridge out of the coach and the new one in? Did you remove the passenger seat and go through there or did you have to remove a windshield and pass them through, or other method?




Mention has also been made about the need (or not) for a pure sine wave inverter. Have you converted to one? What did you use, and what other mods did you make? If you left the original inverter in place, has it affected the way the refrigerator runs or lasts?



I'm hoping that this can become a comprehensive, up to date thread on current replacement models and procedures for the seemingly popular Norcold 1200 replacement. This hopefully won't become a thread on debate over whether Norcold is good or bad, and whether to replace or not. Rather than that hopefully it will be a resource for those who have already made the decision to replace and need only to learn how to do it.



Hopefully this can become a valuable resource for those about to do this modification.
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Old 12-25-2019, 06:23 PM   #2
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Samsung French Door Type & Battery Use Considerations For All AC-Refrigerators

Here’s a good video that talks about battery Amp-Hour use and AC power consumption (Watts) so you know what to expect.



What stands out in this video, and what little I can add, is this:

*Stored energy in a battery is rated in Amp-Hours. Your four GC-2 “Golf Cart” batteries are rated at 220AH each, but they are 6V so when you hook them in parallel to deliver the needed 12V to your inverter the total energy stored is about ~440AH. (And don’t forget your inverter is only 85% efficient when converting 12V battery energy to 120V-AC.)

INVERTER & BATTERY TALK

If you want your $500-$600 bank of house batteries to last 3-7 years, then you need to treat them nice.

And by “nice” this means you should not run the battery bank down below 40% or 11.9V.

Consequently your 440AH of stored energy is really only 200AH of useful energy… plus what additional solar energy you gain if you have solar panels… on a sunny day of course, because solar only works when it’s sunny outside.

* Therefore, if your French Door Samsung refrigerator (in the video) draws 204 AH in an 11 hour period you just used up all the battery storage you have or should be using.

This is why some owners are looking into Lithium batteries, but I think you are talking about a $800-$1,000 investment???

...And one day Lithium batteries will be less expensive, but not today. Note: Last year Lithium was $1500 so the price is coming down!

So for now, most of us boondockers with a residential refrigerator, plus 4-Golf Cart Type batteries, still need to run our generator for a few hours before you go to bed at night; and then you have to run your generator again for a few hours in the morning.

Note: If you have 4-100W solar panel (400W) then you have about 30Amps of DC battery storage after you factor in the efficiency of your solar power controller. And if you have peak sun for ~ 4 hours (average) each day then you can add 120AH to your battery calculations, which is meaningful, but not enough to run your residential refrigerator for 24 hours just on solar power. It does mean you will run your generator less and that saves fuel at $3-$4/gallon.

* In the video it states the Samsung refrigerator runs on average about 19Amps of DC power every hour… without opening the doors! BUT THERE IS MORE TO CONSIDER: It is 80F outside. …And I’m guessing the sun is not shining on the side of the coach where the frig is located.

Therefore, your residential refrigerator will require about 450Amps/day under the best of conditions… and probably more like 500-550 amps/day if you open the refrigerator door several times.

***BUT WHO CARES IF YOU ARE ON AC POWER! ...in your campsite or if you are driving your RV, because the engine alternator will be charging your house batteries.

So when boondocking… all this debate over to upgrade to a residential refrigerator is really about:

* How much battery storage and/or solar you have? AND…

* If you need your air conditioner!


YES, THAT’S RIGHT. Your decision to upgrade to a residential refrigerator probably will also be contingent on if you need to run your AC when boondocking too! Why?

If you need to run your generator to run you RV air conditioner, then you don't have to worry about power storage (2 house batteries or 4 makes no difference).

==> There are “campers” and there are “Glampers”. Which one are you?

More reading material: Any Residential RV Refrigerator Regrets? Most Say "Nope!" - RV LIFE
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Old 12-25-2019, 10:04 PM   #3
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How To Pick A Residential Refrigerator For Your RV?

Most of the time you will not have but 1 or 2 choices. This has to do with the size of the hole you want your refrigerator to fit into after you pull out your old gas-absorption refrigerator.

A Norcold 1200 is 12cu-ft. And in that hole we put a Stainless Steel door, 15.5 cu-ft, GE model #GTS16GSHCRSS you can still buy at HD for $700 + $100 for an ice maker.

We have a 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD. (The refrigerator is in the slide out.)

Fortunately, our Norcold had and ice makers which means there was a 120V plug already there. But we decided to add a On/Off switch on the outside wall that has a led in it. This way the LED will light anytime the refrigerator power turns off. It's a good way to know if you lose power, otherwise you have to open the refrigerator to see if the inside light comes on. Plus we can shut the refrigerator "off" when we want without going outside to open the vent hatch to unplug the unit.

After we installed the frig we use some hold-down "L-brackets" so it was firmly mounted to the floor; and then we stuffed the sides with some round "noodles" you use in a swimming pool. This also added rigidity and blocked the wind from entering the coach. It was our 3" version of a weatherstrip.

So, in addition go getting the refrigerator in the hole, we insulated just the front leading edge, reinforced the floor board, ripped out the upper venting, and finished of the front with Popular Wood Base Board we stained "Natural" and then used a Polyurathane top coat that will yellow over time... and the result was a very close match (almost like the original) maple color our interior was made from. We also positioned wood screws proportionally on te ends and added "button-wood-plugs" to cover the wood screws.

All an all it was that involved to replace our gas-absorption frig with a residential refrigerator. Just take off the doors so you can get it through your RV front door... with 1/4" to spare on each side!

Note: We pulled the passenger seat easily. Just 4 nuts easily accessed from under the coach; and the the deliver team from Home Depot pulled out our old refrigerator; and then place the new GE in our RV-kitchen. And then we installed it from their.

You will also need to add a door stop by drilling a hole... between the doors. Then epoxy a female threaded nut... so you can screw your 4" door stop rod in between the doors. (See picture). This is for a standard 2-door refrigerator. However, if you get a French door Frig you can just strap the two doors together... or you may need to come up with another way of securing your doors so they do not open when you turn a corner!

Also we covered the inside of the vent covers with tape so wind does not enter through the louvers, but we left the roof vent open for heat to escape. Of course, most refrigerators that do NOT have visible coils on the back are designed to vent out the front, but even so the refrigerator side walls will get warm. And the roof vent is good for ventilation anyway.

It's been 4 years now and never once have we had any problems with our GE refrigerator or ice maker. We would recommend it over the Samsung French door for functionality, but we have to admit the Samsung French Door does look good. I think it has more freezer storage too and less refrigerator room than our GE so you might investigate that. However, we could not find the Samsung anywhere but from an appliance store with a 6 week lead time.

See attached .pdf for the GE spec sheet that includes dimensions.
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File Type: pdf GE Refrigerator Spec Sheet - GTS16GSHCRSS (15.5cuft).pdf (151.0 KB, 63 views)
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Old 12-30-2019, 08:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
*Stored energy in a battery is rated in Amp-Hours. Your four GC-2 “Golf Cart” batteries are rated at 220AH each, but they are 6V so when you hook them in parallel to deliver the needed 12V to your inverter the total energy stored is about ~440AH. (And don’t forget your inverter is only 85% efficient when converting 12V battery energy to 120V-AC.)
I may be misreading your comment but two 220AH 6V batteries in parallel will deliver 12V with a capacity of 220AH. Two 6V batteries in series will deliver 6V with a capacity of 440AH.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:27 AM   #5
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Hi Doug
We removed the NeverCold in our 2005 Itasca/Horizon 40KD last year with a Samsung, and it's been GREAT. never looked back. someday i'll find the pics and post about the whole project. Had to lower the shelf it sat on as the Samsung was taller than the norcold.
At the time we installed it, we knew we were going to be full-timing (and we did make the jump) we decided last year to go full on with Solar, upgraded inverter, and lithium. Did the install 100% myself (with the enormous help from this and other forums). 1300 watts on the roof, and 600AH LifeBlue batteries, and the full suite of Magnum (hybrid 3000watt, PT100 solar charger, AGS, and ARC 50 controller).
was a big bite financially, but i presume we saved quite a bit by DIY. If you're looking @ a 2005ish Itasca, with basement air (also has been great), the real estate on the roof is phenomenal. We used 4x 325 watt Panasonic panels.
Good luck.. COLD ICE CREAM.. mmmmm

-mike
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:27 AM   #6
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Correction on Voltage/Amp Hours

Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
*Stored energy in a battery is rated in Amp-Hours. Your four GC-2 “Golf Cart” batteries are rated at 220AH each, but they are 6V so when you hook them in parallel to deliver the needed 12V to your inverter the total energy stored is about ~440AH. (And don’t forget your inverter is only 85% efficient when converting 12V battery energy to 120V-AC.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
I may be misreading your comment but two 220AH 6V batteries in parallel will deliver 12V with a capacity of 220AH. Two 6V batteries in series will deliver 6V with a capacity of 440AH.
Not only did I misread your comment (I was thinking two 6V batteries, not four) but we both mixed up parallel and series. Here's the correct situation:

Four 6V/220AH batteries in Parallel = 6V/880AH

Four 6v/220AH batteries in Series = 12V/440AH

In the words of Yogi Bera - "We made too many wrong mistakes.”

Mea Culpa.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:17 AM   #7
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Bob C:

Four 6V/220AH batteries in Parallel = 6V/880AH

Four 6v/220AH batteries in Series = 12V/440AH"


==> But then you need to decide "how nice" you want to treat your lead-acid battery bank?

The "rule of thumb" is not to run your batteries below 40% or 11.9V. This means your 440AH battery bank (4-6V-GC2) will only have ~200AH of "useful energy" to power your refrigerator.

And if you watched the refrigerator video posted above, then you know a residential refrigerator that draws 3A at start-up, and runs at 1A on AC power will only last 1 day. (Probably less due to energy efficiency losses of your inverter.)

Or you can just "run the sh*! out of the batteries... until your inverter will no work. And if you do this a lot, then you will be replacing your battery bank every year!

My 4-6V-GC2 cost ~$550 and that's pretty expensive energy for a season worth of use. So I choose to run my generator at .75 Gal/hr for 2-3 hours every day. This will cost me ~$7-$8/day depending on the cost of diesel fuel so after you add up all the days I am boondocking (without running my air conditioner) I'm guessing that amounts to 20/year. So I'm spending ~$150/year just to keep my refrigerator running. ...On the other hand, I have not spent a dime repairing it, and it runs great, looks great, and frankly I can't stand those gas-absorption "fire traps."

In closing, somebody else drew the attached power schematic, but it's accurate enough. Just add 2 more solar panels to 400W; change the solar controller to a better model; change the inverter to 2000W; and you have the most common setup used in 12V, Class A coaches that have upgraded. It's called a "Series-Parallel Configuration" to deliver 12V to the inverter.

Note: AGM batteries are better, but more expensive. And Lithium batteries are still too expensive to make sense. And let's not forget: Anytime you are boondocking and you need air conditioning... you need to run your generators then too! I.e., if you are always boondocking in heat, then there is no arguement. You have to run your generator anyway so what's stopping you from upgrading to a residential refrigerator?

Here's my advice: As soon as you need to spend one dime fixing that gas-absorption dinosaur, then that's the time you should spend the money on a residential refrigerator upgrade! ...Or if you like making your wife happy, upgrade today!
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Old 01-01-2020, 09:02 AM   #8
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Another factor (in addition to the boon-docking issue) to consider is how much you use your RV. Clearly, full-timers are in a class of their own. On the other hand, some use their RVs regularly for extended periods of time, some for occasional weekend getaways, etc. The cost-benefit analysis will be different for each situation. This assumes, of course, that you're not in fear that your gas absorption refrigerator is going to burst into flames any minute.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:03 AM   #9
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I did not have the room to actually replace my refer with a residential one and get what we wanted. So, I replaced my Norcold 1211 cooling unit with the J. C. Refrigeration's compressor cooling unit. Easier to install, a bit cheaper, and eliminates the fire danger and need for leveling. Works great, if anything too much cold, still dialing it in a bit after 1 month, setting at 3 or 4 and getting zero in freezers and 35-37 in refer compartment.

Best of all, it only uses 66w when running, and runs well with my 1000w MSW inverter when travelling and boondocking. First trip out with it, 300 miles, 80 degree day, and everything nice and cold when we arrived. Very happy with the unit.

http://www.winnieowners.com/forums/m...cture1358.html
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:19 AM   #10
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Did you do the installation yourself?
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I did not have the room to actually replace my refer with a residential one and get what we wanted. So, I replaced my Norcold 1211 cooling unit with the J. C. Refrigeration's compressor cooling unit. Easier to install, a bit cheaper, and eliminates the fire danger and need for leveling. Works great, if anything too much cold, still dialing it in a bit after 1 month, setting at 3 or 4 and getting zero in freezers and 35-37 in refer compartment.

Best of all, it only uses 66w when running, and runs well with my 1000w MSW inverter when travelling and boondocking. First trip out with it, 300 miles, 80 degree day, and everything nice and cold when we arrived. Very happy with the unit.

Winnebago Owners Online Community - Journey39n's Album: Dan's RV photos - Picture
What was the cost of the unit? J.C. Refrigeration doesn't list it on their site.
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Old 01-03-2020, 12:02 AM   #12
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I had to go through a Mobile RV Service Guy to get my insurance to cover all but my deductible. But in my first call to JC Refrigeration, they told me the cost for my Norcold 1211 replacement cooling unit with a 120v compressor unit would be $995, plus $225 to ship to Texas from Indiana. I never saw the actual invoice from them, just paid my $500 deductible to my RV Service Guy.

I split the work, with the Mobile RV Service Guy, but could have done it myself, if a helper was available to help lift the refer out and down, then back up and in. (I'm 70, so perhaps a younger stronger guy could do it by himself.) It was a pretty simple operation, and the JC Refrigeration posted a real helpful video.
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