LP Tank Overfilled

[tderonne]

I mis-stated that a bit. Our ASME type tanks do have overfill protection, not the same STYLE as the verticle tanks. ASME tanks have had them a lot longer. Nothing happened to the ASME style when the verticle tanks got the OPD valve and the triangle handle.

[Roadking]

I've had my 2003 40 gallong horizontal propane tank filled dozens of times and every time while filling the OPD shuts the propane flow off before any liquid comes out of the "spitter" valve. As Tderonne stated the horizontal tanks have had OPD's a lot longer than the 5 gallon, or 40 pound tanks have required them. I had a 94 minne-winne with a 12 gallon horizontal tank that had an OPD on it.

Filling when cold and moving to warm will cause the propane to expand significantly. That is why the OPD stops the flow at 80% filled. The engineers have designed those tanks to handle that expansion and unless the tank is in a fire the liquid should not expand from the 80% level to anywhere near the 100% level. I understand the concerns here, but probably a lot of worry about nothing, especially given no liquid ever came out of the "spitter" valve. Filling without opening the "spitter" is no big deal, ( as you're betting on the OPD to shut down at the 80% and it's more likely it will shut down than winning any lottery, regardless, I would still use the spitter during filling.

[jdanbowman]

Update..

I purchased a kit that allows me to run my grill from the RV tank. It took a while to get the propane vapor to come to the grill. I had to vent the system several times before it would ignite at the grill.

I am now burning off the excess with my grill. Will be doing a lot of cooking outside for the next few days. Seems to be working well. Not sure how long this is going to take but I think this will work without venting the LP vapor in the air and without risking fire in my coach.

Thanks for all the inputs.. All went into my decision to go this way.

Dan Bowman
2003 Journey.

PS: I will make a final posting when I get the tank down to the 80% full mark. Maybe a few days away.

[jdanbowman]

Originally Posted by Route 66

If you are getting vapor and not liquid out of the valve, then the tank is not over filled.

Are you still smelling propane?

Does the gauge on the tank indicate full or 3/4 or less.

When my propane tank is filled to the 80% level, the gauge on the tank indicates approx. 3/4 full.

I did smell propane but have not since I released some of the vapor and hooked my grill to the coach tank and burn off some of the fuel. The outside gadge registers way past full but is coming down. Usually after filling it does read 80%. The tank was definately overfilled and to make it worse, it was filled at 34 degrees afterwhich I can to AZ where I am in 70 degrees.

Thanks,
Dan Bowman

[Eddie Foy]

Originally Posted by TandW

Propane exists as a vapor and as a gas. Thus it has a vapor pressure.

What's the difference between a vapor and a gas?

[steelheadbluesman]

Wow! Well, here's my experience w/ my old PaceArrow: Operator overfilled my tank, and the gauge was pegged. Everything was shut off. I drove away from the "fill-up" facility to the middle of the parking area, made sure everything inside was off and opened the bleeder valve. We watched vapor come out for about 15-20 minutes, tank gauge went down to around 3/4 and I closed it. It took a few minutes for my appliances to adjust and light. I ran that rig another 6 years and never had another problem related to that over-filling. FWIW, good luck.

[grtharris]

A good way to check the actual level in the tank is to pour hot water on the tank. The area about the liquid with warm up and area in the liquid will stay cool.

[jdanbowman]

I have been burning the grill 8 to 10 hours every day and the gadge still is pegged way over full. It looks like just burning the grill is going to take a week to burn off the excess fuel. I am thinking maybe the gadge is indeed broken.

The bleed valve still spits out only vapor.

Today, I lit up my stove top and it seemed to work well. I ran it for a while with no ill effects.

I have not turned on the furnace nor the hot water heater. Does anyone see any reason that the stove top would work and the other gas equipment would not. I am going to have to move back to cold weather tomorrow so I expect to have to run the furnace.

I will keep you posted as to how the rest of the equipment works as I crank it up tomorrow.

Dan Bowman

[MrTransistor]

Hi Dan,

You may have gotten liquid into the system that caused some items to not work properly but everything past the 11” regulator on the tank is tied together as one low-pressure system and if one item is working properly, then all items should work properly. As soon as you stopped getting liquid from the bleed valve, you were at 80% and there was no need to burn off any more gas. All you needed to do was purge the liquid from the low-pressure system via the stove and everything should have started working properly.

Our Horizon had the additional valve located at the tank and it was turned off from the factory. The first time we went to fill it at a Flying J, the tech. opened the valve beside the filler and got no venting when he started to fill the tank and stopped immediately (good training). As I started to investigate, I crawled under the coach and found the valve turned off. After opening this valve, the tech filled the tank with no problems.

[jdanbowman]

I have now tried my stove and my refrig and but not my furnace or hot water heater. The outside gadge is dropping but is still way over the full mark. As many of you have said, you don't think it is really overfilled. I am beginning to believe that. I am wondering if the gadge is really just measuring pressure and the tank has too much pressure in it.

Another observation: When I was trying to burn off the gas with my grill, the grill regulator would frost up to the point that it cut the gas supply nearly off. Once or twice the flame actually went off. Anyone know why the regulator would freeze like this? I thought it was because liquid propane might be reaching the grill regulator. It does not appear that the coach regulator is freezing.

Thanks,
Dan

[Campingman]

Originally Posted by Eddie Foy

What's the difference between a vapor and a gas?

Same same I thought. Vapor & Liquid are the two states of propane.

[MrTransistor]

Hi Dan,

My records show that the meter reads 1 1/8 for a period of time after a fill up dependent on how much usage there is. In the summer, this can be 2 or more weeks. I created this drawing of the gauge to track propane use. I recorded the One Place indication, and accurately recorded the gauge readings for about 10 months. I used my digital camera at the end of a tripod set to fixed focus and flash fill to reach under the slide out to snap pictures of the gauge. Then using the drawing I was able to record the readings to an accuracy of about 1/64 of a tank.

You wrote:
“When I open the bleed valve, there appears to be only vapor/gas there at first. If I let it bleed a minute or so, a drop of liquid does come out (maybe the gas is just condensing) but it certainly is not spewing out liquid. If it is vapor at the bleed valve, does this mean it will remain vapor at the furnace or stove top?”

This is quite normal and indicates that the liquid level is below the bleed connection (80%). When liquid comes out of the bleed valve, you’ll know it! It actually spews liquid that evaporates within several inches on the opening.

I can’t think of a reason for your grill regulator to freeze up, since you do seem to be feeding it from the low pressure side and not the high pressure or liquid side of the tank. If it was specifically designed for low-pressure use then take it to a propane dealer or repair facility and ask them if they can give you an answer. If on the other hand, the grill was designed to be connected directly to a small tank then it is for high-pressure vapor and I don’t know what the reaction would be.

At this point, my best guess is that the gauge on your tank seems to be about as inaccurate as mine. If this is so, there will be liquid left in the tank when the gauge reads empty. Mine does just that. When the gauge hits empty, there are still 5 gallons of propane left in the tank. I intended on finding out if it could be adjusted but since I’ve pretty much run out of steam, I will leave it alone but keep the error in mind. Just get a good sense for yours, and keep on trucking, but let us know here if you do manage to find a way to correct the error. My thought is that the arm inside with the float on it is too short causing the gauge to read too full and too empty. You know, just like your gas tank gauge.

http://www.irv2.com/attachments/phot...0/LP_Meter.jpg

[jdanbowman]

Originally Posted by MrTransistor

Hi Dan,

My records show that the meter reads 1 1/8 for a period of time after a fill up dependent on how much usage there is. In the summer, this can be 2 or more weeks. I created this drawing of the gauge to track propane use. I recorded the One Place indication, and accurately recorded the gauge readings for about 10 months. I used my digital camera at the end of a tripod set to fixed focus and flash fill to reach under the slide out to snap pictures of the gauge. Then using the drawing I was able to record the readings to an accuracy of about 1/64 of a tank.

You wrote:
“When I open the bleed valve, there appears to be only vapor/gas there at first. If I let it bleed a minute or so, a drop of liquid does come out (maybe the gas is just condensing) but it certainly is not spewing out liquid. If it is vapor at the bleed valve, does this mean it will remain vapor at the furnace or stove top?”

This is quite normal and indicates that the liquid level is below the bleed connection (80%). When liquid comes out of the bleed valve, you’ll know it! It actually spews liquid that evaporates within several inches on the opening.

I can’t think of a reason for your grill regulator to freeze up, since you do seem to be feeding it from the low pressure side and not the high pressure or liquid side of the tank. If it was specifically designed for low-pressure use then take it to a propane dealer or repair facility and ask them if they can give you an answer. If on the other hand, the grill was designed to be connected directly to a small tank then it is for high-pressure vapor and I don’t know what the reaction would be.

At this point, my best guess is that the gauge on your tank seems to be about as inaccurate as mine. If this is so, there will be liquid left in the tank when the gauge reads empty. Mine does just that. When the gauge hits empty, there are still 5 gallons of propane left in the tank. I intended on finding out if it could be adjusted but since I’ve pretty much run out of steam, I will leave it alone but keep the error in mind. Just get a good sense for yours, and keep on trucking, but let us know here if you do manage to find a way to correct the error. My thought is that the arm inside with the float on it is too short causing the gauge to read too full and too empty. You know, just like your gas tank gauge.

http://www.irv2.com/attachments/phot...0/LP_Meter.jpg

Actually the Tee is connected in line prior to the coach regulator so the feed going to the grill regulator is receiving the same high pressure as the coach regulator. This was installed consistent with the instructions on the kit that I purchased from an RV store.

By the way, the gadge is going down. It is still well above the full mark but it is back to the lines on the gadge and not pegged out in the white space on the gadge. I still intend to keep burning off gas on the stove top before turning my furnace on.

Thanks,
Dan

[MrTransistor]

Actually the Tee is connected in line prior to the coach regulator so the feed going to the grill regulator is receiving the same high pressure as the coach regulator. This was installed consistent with the instructions on the kit that I purchased from an RV store.

That answers that question. I still think you are below 80% and that burning off any more propane would be throwing away money. Try normal operations again and see if all is well now. If not, you could go back to burning off more propane. Be advised that the furnace could take several tries to light off since there may be some air in the line like the stove had. When you fill up again, make note of the gauge reading, calculate how many gallons it should take to fill, then compare that number to the actual amount added. i.e. a 31 gallon tank is supposed to hold 24.8 gallons, if the gauge reads exactly ¼, then it should take 18.6 gallons to fill it. If it actually takes, say, 24 gallons, then you know the gauge really is off. But if it takes 18 or 19 gallons, then you at least know that the gauge is fairly accurate at that reading. If you decide to take it down to bone dry, then you know that it should take about 24.8 gallons to fill. Ours is a 31 gallon tank and when dry will take 25.6 gallons. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[wa8yxm]

Re: the gauge reading beyond full

Though Propane guages tend to be better than vehicle fuel guages.

As you know your car's fuel guage goes way past full too.

[jdanbowman]

Okay guys, I am now using my furnace, stove and refrig with no obvious ill effects. The gadge is going down and is almost to the full mark. It appears that there has been no permanent damage to any of my equipment (at least at this point in time).

One other point, the Winnebago Owners manual indicates that the freezing of my grill regulator is caused by the propane containing water. According to the book, even though companies go to great length to keep water out of propane, sometimes it gets into the providers system and thus to the RV tank. As of now, this moisture has not affected the onboard equipment but it did have an effect on the grill regulator.

I sincerely appreciate all the inputs made to lead me through this problem.

Thanks,
Dan Bowman

[bobpie]

If U burnt UR grill 8 hrs. and the guage didn't move, I'd say it is bad. Your good to go.

[jdanbowman]

Originally Posted by bobpie

If U burnt UR grill 8 hrs. and the guage didn't move, I'd say it is bad. Your good to go.

I actually burned it several days but the gadge moved very little. As noted previously, the grill regulator kept freezing up and the flame would go down to almost nothing and sometimes even went out.

After burning the stove, heater and hot water heater, it is now down to 80% full. I will calibrate the gadge the next time that I fill the tank. Even with the stove and heater runnng, the gadge moved very slowly as it was pegged way over in the white portion of the dial.

There is no doubt in my mind that the tank was overfilled but things are in indeed "good to go".

Thanks,
Dan Bowman

[Roadking]

Prechance I'm missing something here, but how can a tank be over filled if the OPD works properly? And, how can a tank be overfilled if no liquid came from the "spitter valve"??? Did the manufacturor install the tank properly so the OPD and spitter valve, and gauge are properly oriented towards the top? With the OPD failing, the Spitter valve failing, and the gauge reading wrong it appears to me the tank was not installed properly, i.e. it may be rotated from vertical.

The OPD should always shut down the propane flow during the filling process when the tank is filled to the 80%. When I say "shut down the full", the OPD closes stops the propane flow. The valve makes a very loud click at which time the flow stops and the operator then closes the valve on the end of the hose, closes the spitter valve, and turns off the pump. This typically always happens before any liquid comes out of the "spitter" valve. The OPD should prevent the tank from ever being overfilled.

I suggest using the entire contents of the tank be used (i.e. empty it) and before filling the tank again have the OPD removed and inspected. and also inspect how the tank is installed.

[Route 66]

And, how can a tank be overfilled if no liquid came from the "spitter valve"???

The OP stated in his first post that the person filling the tank did NOT open the 80% valve.