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Old 01-27-2008, 07:12 AM   #21
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Interesting...

My last RV was a RVision Trail-Bay, Travel Trailer. I had it for about 3.5 years and loved it. I didn't have to take it back to the dealer for any warranty or repair work.

Though, I did see some quality issues. I had the kitchen faucet leak a little and it just ended up needing time tightening (easy quick fix). Also, some of the fit and finish was just horrible: sawdust everywhere (which seemed to never go away for about 2 years), glue spilled all over, sealant spilled here and there, etc.

The above reasons is one of the biggest reasons we went with Winnebago when we were searching for a Class C (we ordered ours in December and should take delivery in late February). From what we can tell and from what people reported to us on RV.net, Winnebago had a higher quality of finish work and durability all around. Also, I have heard many people say the warranty work was painless.

This thread has me concerned now. Interesting enough, I am not an extended warranty type of person. I never buy them for pretty much anything, unless there is an extreme value. Like for my Toyota Prius, I spent the extra $800 to extend my warranty to 10 years/100k miles.

For the RV, I have always wondered about the warranties. Considering this is not a simple vehicle. It's a house and a car. There are SO MANY components that can fail. Considering the house part of the RV gets some serious beating from traveling to and from, I can easily see how things can fail prematurely.

Searching through threads on many RV boards it seems to me that the common advice is to save your money on the extended warranty and just put it in a savings account. I guess the common perception is that the extended warranties are junk. My plan up to this point was to not get the warranty. This thread gets me wondering again...

Anyone want to chime in with their experiences with an extended warranty and maybe advice on a warranty company to go with? How much should it cost (my purchase price is $71k, MSRP is $99k). Also, is this something I need to buy day 1 or can I buy one before my 1st year is up with Winnebago's warranty?

Thank You
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Old 01-27-2008, 08:54 AM   #22
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ClrCrkRider:
Interesting.

Anyone want to chime in with their experiences with an extended warranty and maybe advice on a warranty company to go with? How much should it cost (my purchase price is $71k, MSRP is $99k). Also, is this something I need to buy day 1 or can I buy one before my 1st year is up with Winnebago's warranty?

Thank You </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think that you will have to negotiate that with your selling dealer. EVERY THING IS NEGOTABLE!
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:13 AM   #23
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Check with Good Sam. I thought what they offered was a good deal so I bought it. Probably better than the dealer can offer. By the way, I don't trust dealers
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Old 01-27-2008, 09:59 AM   #24
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"Richard 34A: Another famous and worn out cliche' is; "if they charged for high quality the coach would be out of financial reach of most". The Japanese,& Koreans have proven this is not true, over and over. I am concerned that things are going to go down hill further. As sales decline, quality suffers even more. As sales decline, competition also goes. There was never a better time for a good foreign builder to prove it can be done, along with economy of operation. "

I spent a number of years as a QA Manager/ASQC Cert. Engineer for a major aerospace manufacturer.

What you say is easy to say but just plain false in reality. The harshest environment for electronic/mechanical components is weaponry (howitzer shells and ballistic loads or rockets which burn through a few dozen feet of concrete/steel prior to detonation) followed closly by automotive followed by space applications.

The testing needed to assure a certain minimum mortality rate is massive and expensive and honestly beyond the reach of any person.

I built hi-rel zener diodes for GM auto products and we had to maintain a near ZERO defect/million device failure rate (or as close as possible). That failure rate is darned hard to achieve.

Considering the number of components in the average RV, I am surprized we get by as well as we do.

I will guarantee if Toyota had an inkling they could compete in the RV market, they would have jumped in years ago. They ain't dumb. Go price the european entries.

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Old 01-27-2008, 10:16 AM   #25
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I personally prefer to purchase a CD large enough to cover the most expensive components. So far I have not had to use it, so I have the interest and my principal in tact. That represents the best scenario. I have had warranty contracts previously and they paid, but did not pay any where near the amount the repair place billed. It seems they (warranty company), used a flat rate schedule attuned to the commercial truck or semi tractor. These are much easier to access than an RV, the parts are more readily available, the techs are more knowledgeable. So I had to make up the difference out of my pocket plus the deductible. I am talking chassis problems here and not little items ie; Transmission, brakes, engine,fuel systems etc. Just IMHO. p.s. No where in the fine print did it mention what the basis of payment was predicated on.
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:19 AM   #26
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Remember, the Japanese plants in the USA are not unionized and therefore have fewer expenses.

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Old 01-27-2008, 03:33 PM   #27
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by traveler of california:
Remember, the Japanese plants in the USA are not unionized and therefore have fewer expenses.

Nick, Journey '01 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And they use American workers, with some of the parts produced in the U.S.A. So why do Toyota's, Honda's and Nissan's have the reliability that they do?

Some of the posts here seem to try to justify the quality that we get in RV's; funny thing is, that's just want manufacturer's want you to do. I think we get the quality we get because of the lack of competition.

Ford, GM and Chrysler have lost huge market share to the 'imports' and only recently have realized that no matter how big a company you think you are, bankruptcy isn't impossible. All three had to sell off many assets just to stay in business and I certainly won't be surprised if two of the big three merge just to survive. All three have survived due to the full-size truck market that the imports ignored... until the last few years. Time is running out for American automobile manufacturers and one of the main reasons was the quality (or lack of) that they produced.

With 'entry level' motorhomes starting at $100,000, depreciation that is second to none, gasoline prices at $3.25 a gallon & $200 fill-ups the norm, quality that makes you rethink trading in that 4-year old MH that you finally got the bugs worked out of... it will be interesting to see how the RV industry holds up in five years.

As an example, look at National RV; they seemed to have a nice product line-up, offering gas and diesel, and produced what I thought were beautiful motorhomes. For Christmas, the employees were layed off due to filing for bankruptcy...

And for the record, I've owned five RV's over the last 17 years. I like traveling by MH, and though I've had a lot of problems, I like my MH. I'm not trying to be sour grapes, just expressing my opinion on the overall quality that we get from RV manufacturers...
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Old 01-27-2008, 04:21 PM   #28
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I was speaking to profitability, not quality control. As a matter of fact, I believe objective analysts have concluded that the quality between American and Japanese automobiles is very close.

If our auto companies are going out of business and are unable to compete as you say, I believe it has more to do with costs/unit than QC.

If I'm not mistaken, there are more RV manufacturers than auto manufacturers so competition is not the problem regarding QC. I think these are complicated vehicles and buyers need to be aware of that to reduce problems when purchasing.


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Old 01-27-2008, 11:06 PM   #29
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by traveler of california:

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your comments, but you don't sound very happy. If I disliked RVing that much, I would sell and do something else with my $. I can't believe that everyone is as dissatisfied as you appear to be.

Nick, Journey '01

Nick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry my post was so long and you didn't actually read the last paragraph; please don't infer something that I never said, so here it is again:

"And for the record, I've owned five RV's over the last 17 years. I like traveling by MH, and though I've had a lot of problems, I like my MH. I'm not trying to be sour grapes, just expressing my opinion on the overall quality that we get from RV manufacturers..."
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:36 PM   #30
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by traveler of california:
I was speaking to profitability, not quality control. As a matter of fact, I believe objective analysts have concluded that the quality between American and Japanese automobiles is very close.

Nick, Journey '01

Nick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regarding U.S. automanufacturers and profitability, here's a link which sadly reflects on what, in part, went wrong...

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5356875/Union-d...take-their-toll.html

I guess JD Powers and Associates, along with Edmunds, see's it a little different then you, on both initial quality (at purchase) and more long term reliability. (Too bad JD Powers doesn't rate RV's; it might be a real eye-opener for manufacturers. Of course, they already know that, due to warranty claims, but that information isn't readily available to the public.)

Either way, your entitled to your opinion, so no sense in us going back and forth on information that is easily available on the Internet.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:36 AM   #31
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We here in Ohio have many foreign auto plants particularly Honda. They pay their employees the same as the American counter parts. What is even better, the employees like working for them. I don't believe not being unionized has a twit to do with QC. I don't see that being dissatisfied with the quality of RV's has anything to do with enjoying the hobby. Most of us think they could do a lot better and so far they haven't. A little hard nose competition might change that.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:20 AM   #32
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Homer:
We here in Ohio have many foreign auto plants particularly Honda. They pay their employees the same as the American counter parts. What is even better, the employees like working for them. I don't believe not being unionized has a twit to do with QC. I don't see that being dissatisfied with the quality of RV's has anything to do with enjoying the hobby. Most of us think they could do a lot better and so far they haven't. A little hard nose competition might change that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Homer;

I used to work for Honda and remember when American Honda built a plant in Marysville, Ohio. From day one, they built Accords that were far superior to American products at that time. And of course, while Honda was building them 'their' way, they were using the American workforce and produced the quality that had been done in Japan. American Honda taught American workers how to work as a team, that anyone on the assembly line could shut it down due to a quality-control problem. Honda didn't produce cars that 'must have been built on a Monday or Friday' as the joke applied to GM, Ford and Chrysler.

I agree with you that being dissatisfied with the overall RV quality control doesn't mean that I don't enjoy traveling and camping, and I did state that in my post, so I thought the response from traveler of california was a little unfair. Dealers could, and should, do a far better pre-delivery inspection and manufacturers should do a better job of getting quality components from suppliers and reduce problems. While MH's are complex, rolling homes on wheels, the components used are supposed to be designed for that intended use to begin with and it's disappointing to see systems that continue to have reoccurring issues, such as levelers.

I'll continue to own an RV for many years to come but will feel that the quality needs to greatly improve as long as I see quality-issue threads in RV forums that seem to be so prevalent.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:31 AM   #33
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After all theses comments, I'm positive that I will keep my rig with all the gliches worked out---It's paid for and just as good if not better than all the new rigs I've looked at. Thank you Folks!
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:40 AM   #34
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Your disclaimer doesn't work for me -- sorry.

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Old 01-28-2008, 04:53 PM   #35
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Remember the movie GUNG HO ?

In Gung Ho, Keaton plays Hunt Stevenson, a laid off foreman at an American car plant. The plant is closed, and many employees have been out of work for months. Hunt is sent to Tokyo, to try to convince the Assan Motors Corporation to take over the plant. The Japanese company agrees, and upon their arrival in the U.S., they take advantage of the desperate work force and institute many changes. The workers are not permitted a union, are paid lower wages, are moved around within the factory so that each man learns every job, and are held to seemingly impossible standards of efficiency and quality
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:55 AM   #36
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Richard and Nick:

While it seems you folks disagree on some facet of the discussion in this thread, I would like to remind you of the primary mission of this forum:

Our Mission: "Efficiently support the thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experiences among RV enthusiasts"

While you can agree to disagree, it is not helpful nor productive to insult one another and I respectfully request that you refrain from that on the forum.
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:30 AM   #37
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Richard 34a,

The article you referred us to was slanted entirely to the business view and did not reflect the reality I experienced in 34.8 years with GM. Every contract that was signed had two sets of signatures, the company and the union, not just the union. GM's strategy seemed to be to throw money at any problem they had, not improve labor relations. They didn't care about quality because for many years the buyers did not demand it. It was OK to take a car back to the dealer several times because all the manufacturers built cars the same way. The foreign cars changed that by using quality as a selling point which none of the US manufacturers responded to at first.

While the union and its member's share responsibility for the state of the business today, it is a much more complicated issue than presented. Dr. W. Edwards Deming, a renowned expert of business taught that 85% of the outcomes for a business were the result of the system, which was controlled by management and 15% of the results were due to the employees. These numbers have been proven to be very accurate in most cases. The union workers didn't design the Chevette, the Vega or the Aztec (the bad, the worse and the ugly). They didn't design the brands to all look nearly identical in the 90's when GM nearly went bankrupt. The workers took parts designed by GM and assembled them using manufacturing process designed by GM, neither of which focused on quality until 12-15 years ago. The only goal of the old system was numbers and the process was to move the parts whether quality was present or not. Everyone that has worked at GM, Ford or Chrysler have examples where employees have complained about poor quality and were told by management to "shut up and run ˜em". Now GM makes cars that are as good as or better than any car made in the world with the very same employees as before. These workers are still dedicated to quality and now the parts and processes support that goal.

It has been suggested that wage and benefits concessions would have saved jobs in the US auto industry. While there may have been a chance of prolonging jobs, nothing was going to save jobs once the corporations got a sniff of the benefits of moving work to foreign soil that had cheap disposable labor, no worker protections, no environmental restrictions, exchange rates that could be manipulated to benefit the manufacturers and finally laws in the USA that not only didn't restrict jobs from moving overseas, but actually rewarded them with tax breaks and other incentives. While the auto, steel, and electronics workers made good wages, other industries such as textiles, food growing, etc. that did not have high wages have moved overseas as well. No job in America is safe as the recent moving of engineering and customer service jobs overseas has proven.

In closing, The one thing I have learned in 25 years of consulting is that any organization is a reflection of it's leadership and it's just lately that GM's leadership has began to get it right.

Dave
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:41 AM   #38
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by smlranger:
Richard and Nick:

While it seems you folks disagree on some facet of the discussion in this thread, I would like to remind you of the primary mission of this forum:

Our Mission: "Efficiently support the thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experiences among RV enthusiasts"

While you can agree to disagree, it is not helpful nor productive to insult one another and I respectfully request that you refrain from that on the forum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair enough.....

This is a great site, and there is a lot of useful and entertaining information available. T

Thank you,
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:19 AM   #39
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davel:
Richard 34a,

It has been suggested that wage and benefits concessions would have saved jobs in the US auto industry. While there may have been a chance of prolonging jobs, nothing was going to save jobs once the corporations got a sniff of the benefits of moving work to foreign soil that had cheap disposable labor, no worker protections, no environmental restrictions, exchange rates that could be manipulated to benefit the manufacturers and finally laws in the USA that not only didn't restrict jobs from moving overseas, but actually rewarded them with tax breaks and other incentives. While the auto, steel, and electronics workers made good wages, other industries such as textiles, food growing, etc. that did not have high wages have moved overseas as well. No job in America is safe as the recent moving of engineering and customer service jobs overseas has proven.

Dave </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the reply; I wonder how it is that Honda, Nissan, Toyota and others have been so successful building automobiles here in the U.S.A., while U.S. manufactures left due to the "...benefits of moving work to foreign soil that had cheap disposable labor, no worker protections, no environmental restrictions."

Very complicated issue, and I'm sure that is no one answer. I do know that I have a 2003 Chevrolet Suburban with a driveline/transmission clunk that after numerous repair attempts couldn't be resolved. Using the GM Customer Assistance process, I tried repeatedly to have the transmission replaced. Instead, I received a $2,000 Customer Loyalty Certificate, good for one year; all I have to do is buy ANOTHER GM vehicle.

Personally, I don't feel that after spending $44k for my Suburban with a faulty transmission that a Certificate solves my problem; it certainly doesn't repair or resolve the transmission clunk that I hear on EVERY second to third gear up-shift. I recently thought about trading in at a Chevrolet store; after driving and appraising my Suburban, the manager came over and asked me about the 'clunk' he heard while driving it, and told me that something was wrong and needed to be fixed! And guess what: because the service department was open, he had them run my vehicle I.D. and noted that the Chevrolet repair history showed many repair attempts, and he adjusted his ˜offer' on my Suburban accordingly. I'm still driving it and the whole thing might be funny, if it wasn't MY money!

Having spent 12 years in the automobile business, including some years with Honda and Toyota, I'm certain that those manufactures would have offered a different solution, such as actually repairing or replacing the transmission that Chevrolet admits has 'some sort of defect, and is not the norm'.

While U.S. manufacturers have greatly improved quality and reliability over years past, it seems that comparing the quality & reliability of the full product line of say Honda or Toyota to any of our Big Three's full product line, I don't think we're tied for first place...

And in fairness, I recently read an article on J.D. Powers that says that because overall U.S. quality is improving, buyers are now focusing more on the dealer, how well they are treated, how well the service department handles problems and issues, etc.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:51 AM   #40
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by traveler of california:
Anger issues!? Wow! Diagnosis via the net is quite a talent.

I certainly appreciate your concern but perhaps your time would be better spent bashing Winnebago.

Nick, Journey '01 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nick;

I wasn't 'bashing' Winnebago, simply discussing RV quality in general, and I didn't even start the thread.

I'd like to request that you NOT reply to my posts.
Thanks in advance,
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