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Old 05-01-2013, 07:46 AM   #1
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No Brake light signal on 7 pin connector

I towed my Jeep Cherokee for the first time yesterday and unfortunately discovered that the brake light signal on the 7 pin connector on the back of the motorhome, 01 Journey 36dl, doesn't have a signal when the brake lights are on. Turn signals work but brake lights do not.
Im not sure where to start with this one, any suggestions?
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:05 AM   #2
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The brake signal on a 7-pin is at the 5 o'clock position on the coach socket, 7 o'clock on the toad plug when looking at them face-on. First thing I'd check is to see if you are getting power at the coach socket when the brake is depressed, then see if you have signal coming out on the plug side.

Sounds like you have already checked this, but just making sure.

Next thing I'd check is the actual brake pedal in the coach and see if the wire is loose to the sensor on the brake pedal arm.

Do your Journey brake lights work properly?
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:11 AM   #3
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brake lights work on the Journey, I thought the brake light signal was on the same pins as the turn signals. I think the pin you are referring to is for electric brakes.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:19 AM   #4
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This is the wiring I've always gone by... yes, I do use a dolly but I thought the pin-outs were the same on the 7-plug regardless... wiser heads might prove me wrong.


Terminal Wire Color Function Location - RV socket Location - Toad plug

1 White Ground 7 o'clock 5 o'clock
2 Blue Brakes 5 o'clock 7 o'clock
3 Green Running 10 o'clock 2 o'clock
4 Black Power 2 o'clock 10 o'clock
5 Red LT 9 o'clock 3 o'clock
6 Brown RT 3 o'clock 9 o'clock
7 Yellow Aux or BU Center Center
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:53 AM   #5
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Here's a Winnebago Service Tip that may help: 2007-03 Seven-Pin Trailer Connector -
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:53 AM   #6
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rshakelford,
First off, I want to make sure of something here. Does your Journey have "Amber" turn signals? I think it does but, just want to make sure. If so, your brake lights both on the coach and, your signal to the correct pin on the plug of your coach is totally separate from your turn signals. As you most likely know and, it's been shown by another poster here, if you have amber turn signals, there will be a separate pin for right and left turn signals and, one for brake lights.

Now, with that being said, does your Grand Cherokee have ambers too or, just red brake lights? Sure makes a difference in how things are wired. Again, not trying to insult your abilities here, just wanting to be on the same page. Just because you have brake lights on the coach does not mean you'll have brake lights in the plug. On many Winnes, there's a separate set of fuses that handle that trailer plug assembly. It took me a while to find mine but, I eventually did and for me, mine are tucked in behind the lift-able louvered panel at the left rear of the coach.

If, you've got trailer plug fuses, you'll have to determine where they are. If you don't, then make sure you're getting a signal to the correct brake light pin on the plug, regardless if the coach brake lights are working. If you're getting a brake light signal to the plug, then, your issue is beyond that plug and possibly on the Cherokee side. Let us know what you find.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:54 PM   #7
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I do have amber turn signals.

I thought that the brake and turn signals were on the same pin, and that the brake on pin 2 was power for the electric trailer brakes.

I am not getting a signal on the RT and LT pins with turn signals off and brakes applied. I didn't check to see if the Electric brake on pin 2 had a signal or not.

The Cherokee is not involved at all. I have magnetic lights and a 7 pin to 4 pin converter. I plug the converter into the 7 pin connector on coach and magnetic lights into other side of converter.

The magnetic lights work with the turn signals but not when just the brakes are applied.

To reiterate, I checked pins 5 and 6 on the 7 pin connector with a Voltmeter, no converter in place, and I do not see any voltage when the brakes are applied.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:14 PM   #8
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might check the fuse box for the 7 pin.

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #9
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any idea where I can find that on an 01 Journey?
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:53 PM   #10
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Here's a thread with photos for an '04 Horizon, but still a Freightliner so might give you a starting point... for them it was behind the last panel drivers side; needed to unscrew the panel and lift up, then dig around. Photos at bottom of thread.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/fuse...lp-143340.html
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #11
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On our 2004 Journey, the fuse box for the 7-pin hook-up is in the drivers side, rear compartment, with the electric hook-up. The fuse box is behind the sheet metal panel to the right side of the compartment. The panel comes out by removing screws at the back and on the outside of the compartment. the fuse box is hard to see, you will really appreciate the engineers for putting it in a place that is so hard to get to for service. Check each fuse and replace the one's that are bad. You should then have power to the brake lights.
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #12
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I think this is the diagram you want.
Brake lites appear seperate from turn signals.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2001/136939.pdf
from:
Wiring Diagrams
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Old 05-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rshackleford View Post
I towed my Jeep Cherokee for the first time yesterday and unfortunately discovered that the brake light signal on the 7 pin connector on the back of the motorhome, 01 Journey 36dl, doesn't have a signal when the brake lights are on. Turn signals work but brake lights do not.
Im not sure where to start with this one, any suggestions?
You may need a converter. Amber turn signal to red turn signal.

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Old 05-01-2013, 11:16 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=rshackleford;1552245]I do have amber turn signals.

I thought that the brake and turn signals were on the same pin, and that the brake on pin 2 was power for the electric trailer brakes.

OK, let's see here. You have "amber" turn signals. So that means your running, brake and turn signals are all separate. So, no, the brake and turn signals will NOT BE ON THE SAME PIN, in your 7-pin trailer plug on the coach.

I am not getting a signal on the RT and LT pins with turn signals off and brakes applied. I didn't check to see if the Electric brake on pin 2 had a signal or not.

You shouldn't get the left or right turn signal pins to see any voltage when the brakes are applied. You'll only see voltage in those when either is activated. Now, since I'm not using one, I'm kind of giving a sort of educated guess here but, you should not see any "trailer brake signals" without the use of a "Trailer Brake controller" which, you would have hanging from the bottom of your dash, or there abouts.

The Cherokee is not involved at all. I have magnetic lights and a 7 pin to 4 pin converter. I plug the converter into the 7 pin connector on coach and magnetic lights into other side of converter.

Ok, If I may make a suggestion here. The term "Converter" usually applies to what's called a "Tail light converter" when adapting from a two wire system to a three wire system or, the opposite which is, a three wire system to a two wire system. You use these when the two vehicles are not the same.

Where as an "Adapter" is what I think you mean when you say you go from a 7-pin to a 4-pin connector. Correct? Am I interpreting this correctly here? Now, in your case, you need "BOTH" a converter and, and adapter. The reason you need a converter is, you have three different filaments performing tasks on the back of your coach. One, a running light, two, a brake light, three, an amber turn signal.

But, you only have "TWO" filaments performing those same three tasks on your magnetic lights, correct? So, since the wiring in the seven pin is different than what's needed in the 4 pin for those magnetic lights to work correctly, some changes in the wiring must take place in order for both systems (three filament on the motor home and two filament on the magnetic lights). Those changes are done with the use of a "Three wire to a two wire tail light converter. And, in your case it would be wired into the plug that plugs into the 7 pin trailer plug on your coach.

These "converter boxes" are magic to me. I'm presently using one in our setup. You see, it's the exact opposite you have. Our coach only has a two filament system but, we're towing a 2011 Honda CRV which, has a three filament system so, a "Two wire to three wire" converter was installed near the tail lights on the Honda. All works perfect.

Without drawing it out, what you need is a "Right turn into the converter, a left turn into the converter and, a brake light into the converter. Then, on the out going side of the converter all you'd see is, a RT turn/brake, and a Left turn/brake on it. It's a simple system.

The magnetic lights work with the turn signals but not when just the brakes are applied.

What you may be experiencing here is two separate problems at the same time. You see, by not having the correct wiring, converter etc. you're not getting the correct signals through the system all the way to the magnetic lights on the back of the car. And, the second problem you may be having is, you're not getting a brake light signal to the 7 pin trailer plug on your coach in the first place. So, that must be repaired prior to you moving on with the rest of the corrections.

But, an electric trailer brake almost always comes from a "controller" of some type because of the variance of applied voltage needed for variable pressure on the magnets in the trailer brake wheels. If you were to use your regular brake light signal for applying trailer brakes, you'd lock them up each and every time you hit the brakes, even just for slowing down some, because you'd be giving those magnets full voltage instead of variable voltage and also the inertia that's applied to the controller due to the action of the coach when the brakes are applied.

To reiterate, I checked pins 5 and 6 on the 7 pin connector with a Voltmeter, no converter in place, and I do not see any voltage when the brakes are applied.[/QUOTE]

OK, at the minute, I'm not at my trailer plug to see which pin should light up with brakes applied on the coach so I don't know which one to tell you "should" work when your brakes are applied. You need to find out if you've got a blown fuse for the trailer plug brake lights. In many Winnes and Itascas, there is a separate set of fuses just for the trailer plug. I'm always hesitant to say that you or anyone else should have these separate fuses just because I have them. Most of these rigs are built close to the same, but not always. So, you'll need to find, if you have them, those trailer plug fuses and see if one's blown for the trailer brakes.

If you don't have a separate set of trailer plug fuses, then you'll just have to find out what the cause of the " no signal" is to any of the pins in the 7 pin trailer plug. Once you've done that, then you can move on. I hope this has helped some and I didn't drag this out too much. But, anytime a domestic to foreign or, three wire to two wire or, two wire to three wire (as in our case) is encountered, changes must take place in order for all the kids to play together happily.
Scott

On edit: I didn't see that the poster above me supplied the picture of the converter I was trying to describe. That's the exact one you need. In fact, you'd need it whether you are using the magnetic lights or, powering up the factory lights on the Grand.
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