New Minnie badly rusting

[Ret.LEO]

Seems that the worse is at cut outs and welds.

[TonyOIB]

It DOES look like I live in a salty environment, but the MH is new and I've only had it since this past August. I've just emailed my response to Winnebago's informing me that rust is NOT a warrantable item.

SERIOUSLY???
FORTUNATELY, We live in America and there are many laws protecting citizens from unscrupulous manufacturer's making and selling shoddy merchandise. I firmly believe that after viewing this next set of photographs and after Camping World examines my RV that it will be clear that this motor home was indeed NOT produced up to the standards of MERCHANTABILITY necessary for this vehicle to be deemed SUITABLE for it's intended usage. I took delivery of this new motor home on 8/10/18 and you will note that in one photo the underneath of the battery compartment is already severely deteriorated and almost rusting through, other photos show an electrical grounding block, the bracket that holds the dump valve , EVEN the screws holding the dump valves ALL disintegrating and already needing repair or replacement, not to mention the propane fittings. As I may need to remind you: An implied warranty of merchantability applies to nearly all purchases made by consumers, as it guarantees that the product will work for its intended purpose. The implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose applies if the seller knows or has reason to know that the buyer will be using the goods he is buying for a certain purpose. If the seller knows the purpose for which the goods are to be used, the seller impliedly warrants that the goods being sold are suitable for that specific purpose. OBVIOUSLY, judging by all the responses I have gotten from the various forums I have posted this situation on, Winnebago knows fully that this severe rusting is an ongoing problem and one that I personally will NOT bear the brunt of. I will be demanding a return and full restitution of what I paid for the motorhome.

[John Locke]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Not a big deal. Corrosion X Heavy Duty is what you need.

What is Corrosion X HD? I read their website but it doesn't say. Is this a heavy duty paint, or is this an oil of some sort.

A good sandblasting company can spot blast accurately to miss cables and lines to remove most rust. With that done you can then apply a good heavy duty paint, or FlexSeal spray. That stuff is reported to be pretty good.

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by John Locke

What is Corrosion X HD? I read their website but it doesn't say. Is this a heavy duty paint, or is this an oil of some sort.

A good sandblasting company can spot blast accurately to miss cables and lines to remove most rust. With that done you can then apply a good heavy duty paint, or FlexSeal spray. That stuff is reported to be pretty good.

John,



I'd not bet that a 'good' sand blasting company could miss cables, wires, hoses and lines.....


More CorrosionX....




CorrosionX Heavy Duty is a thicker film version of regular CorrosionX that forms a dripless, dynamic, non-hardening, self-healing film that stubbornly resists displacement by splash or spray - including complete submersion in saltwater. CorrosionX Heavy Duty will slowly penetrate existing rust and corrosion, remove moisture and stop electrolysis. And then it seals moisture out. Unlike wax coatings CorrosionX Heavy Duty will not dry out, stiffen or crack under stress.

• Aviation Grade CorrosionX
  • CorrosionX Aviation 16oz Aerosol
  • CorrosionX Aviation 16oz Spray
• CorrosionX Standard
  • CorrosionX 6oz Aerosol
  • CorrosionX 16oz Aerosol
  • CorrosionX 16oz Spray
• CorrosionX Heavy Duty 16oz Aerosol

I've Corrosion X for a number of years. It will 'heal' and 'prevent' rust and corrosion. Not your common spray on cover up. Not a WD like product. While it may help to remove some of the heavier rust build up, it will repair and protect with out much 'prep' work. It is used by the military and in aviation. It has a National Stock Number.... which should be meaningful. Not cheap. Regarding the electrical connections. It's safe for them as well. And, IRRC, non-conductive.


Agreed, there is an amazing amount of what looks to be 'superficial' rust on this RV. But, the chassis builders only put on enough paint to get it off the production floor and into a up-fitter shop. And if there are any scratches in the paint or places where the up-fitter has cut through any metal bits the unit is going to quickly rust. Also along metal edges.


IMHO, its a waste of time and money trying to clean all that mess up ans lay on some type of paint. The rust will return... again and again. You want to 'kill' the chemical process causing the oxidation rather than covering it up. (Quick chemistry review: Rust is an iron oxide, a usually red oxide formed by the redox reaction of iron and oxygen in the presence of water or air moisture. Rust consists of hydrated iron(III) oxides Fe2O3·nH2O and iron(III) oxide-hydroxide (FeO(OH), Fe(OH)3).) Water, air and iron = rust. So you want to stop the oxidation process at the molecular level.


I'd think that Corrosion X would be way easier to apply ... and re-apply if necessary. It will seep in between layers and assemblies so you don't need to pull things apart.


To be honest. There's some corrosion damage but it's not on critical components. Untreated, it could go on for decades with little structural loss. Jumping on it now would be a good plan.

[Mvnbrya]

Dear Tony:
I bought a 2019 Minnie Winnie in June. I drove it home and happened to look underneath and it looked exactly like yours. I have been battling Winnebago, the Dealer and Ford to get it resolved. My pictures look exactly like yours. Everyone is pointing fingers at the other and no one is willing to take responsibility. From what I have been able to piece together, Winnebago does a poor job of protecting the undercarriage. But in my case, it was driven to the dealer on salt laden roads and evidently the undercarriage was not rinsed off by the dealer. It then sat on the lot rusting until it was sold to me. Winnebago blames the dealer for not rinsing it off and says the dealer had an opportunity to inspect when it was delivered and note any defects which they didn't do. The dealer blames Winnebago for not coating the undercarriage properly. Ford is kind of a bit player in the drama. I reached out to a lawyer and threatened to sue and still might. However, the dealer told me to bring it in and they will try to fix it. They attempted it but did a half-way job forcing me to bring it in again for one more try which I will do after the first of the year. I am just an innocent buyer now stuck with a problem not of my own making. It has been a big nightmare for the last few months and is not over yet. Even if the rust does not compromise the frame, as an aesthetic issue it affects the value. Any buyer is going to do a detailed inspection and it will affect the price. Because I brought it brand new and it looked so good, I never thought to look underneath.
I have some more thoughts if you want to compare notes on this. If you give me your phone number I'm happy to go into further detail with you or I'm happy to give you my phone number.
Good luck - you will need it.

[Jaeger]

I've lived up north where roads are salted every winter, and to my eye, that is NOT normal corrosion. The tipoff in my uneducated opinion is the bubbling and blistering on painted surfaces that have no visible defects where salt could attack.

I think you've got a serious case of galvanic corrosion caused by an improper electrical connection somewhere. One possible solution would be if you've left the unit plugged in to "shore power" all the time and there's a connection being made somehow between the grounding rod for your home power and the unit. I've read reports of similar situations with boats that are constantly plugged in at their docks in marinas. All it takes is for a circuit to be completed and electrons will flow and rust, deep rust, is the result.

An alternative source of current would be improper grounding of the electrical system somehow, but that would require power being constantly applied somehow. Is there a source of internal power left on that could complete a circuit somehow?


FWIW


Jim

[JetAlaska]

Do a CarFax...and contact Winnebago...that looks like it’s been under water.

[Journey39n]

Those photos of rust do look quite bad for a new RV. Yes, after a couple of winters in the NE, driving on salted roads, you get that look, even worse. But brand new??

I purchased a four year old Itasca Horizon, that had been driven three winters in New England, and stored its last year in Texas. Lots of rust everywhere on the underside. I drove it to Washington State in July 2007, spent three weeks of late afternoons, crawling underneath, pressure washing first, then with a wire brush and coarse sandpaper, spraying on "Krud Kutter" which removed and bonded with rust, and coated all with black Rustoleum semi-gloss paint. When I traded it in the summer of 2010 the underside looked considerably better than any other 4 year old coach on the lot, let alone something in the 7-8 year old category. It can be done, but I was working with a used coach and knew exactly what I was getting.

[Ret.LEO]

If a person would look at the qualifiers that was used in the Toyota frame coating and frame replacement it could make a possible class action suit for Winnie owners.
Even this past fall my son was notified by Toyota that they need to check the frame rust on his 2008 Tundra. If moderate they will use a coating for it. If too bad they will replace the frame
My local Toy. Dealer has a stack of used rusted truck frames sitting behind the shop.

[Ret.LEO]

It wouldn't hurt if everyone who is having this problem to report it to the NHSTA. Easy to do.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/

[TonyOIB]

Hi Matt, I'd love to talk to you. Please shoot me an email at [email protected] I'm also considering an attorney. I firmly believe that since these vehicles cannot even survive ONE ROAD TRIP from the factory to their selling dealer, that Winnebago and the dealer are both violating the IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABIITY law and the vehicles are NOT fit for the INTENDED PURPOSE FOR WHICH THEY ARE BEING SOLD. At least that's MY take, but I'm no lawyer. It really is frustrating when all you want is what you paid for...no more and no less!

[rjsupersonic]

If you travel to any manufacture of motor homes you will see hundreds of chassis sitting in a parking lot waiting to hit the production line. I have no doubt that the rust issues begin there sitting in the rain and snow for weeks.

[John Locke]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

[B]I've Corrosion X for a number of years. It will 'heal' and 'prevent' rust and corrosion. Not your common spray on cover up. Not a WD like product.

I'm unfamiliar with Corrosion X, this is why I ask, it's not paint, correct?

When spraying it on, it sounds like your saying it's a liquid chemical that doesn't dry, rust inhibiting of course. Is that a fair description? So this product is water proof apparently and stays in place for a number of years without having to reapply, correct? Or, is this something that would need to be applied annually on the rusting areas? Is this a clear liquid when sprayed on?

As for sandblasting, my close friend does sandblasting for classic car restorations. Many customers don't want full strip down of their car, just the bottom of the car cleaned up, which often includes rust.

Selective blasting is a skill set that not every sandblast worker possesses. They need years experience with a knack for excellence. You need a variety of blasting tips, tip shapes/sizes, air pressures, blast angles, distances, and media type for each situation you have with different problems. Certain paints and rust ages require different techniques. Shielding tools, that look like hand held sheet metal in different shapes and sizes, aid in the preservation of wiring, tubing, fuel lines and hoses when blasting rust off. These shields deflect the media from hitting the protected areas, carefully held temporarily in place by hand. Of course you cannot get 100% of paint or rust removed in areas behind wires, tubes and hoses, but it's possible to safely remove 95% of it, assuming your a good sandblaster with the patience of a car restoration expert. The only paint/rust remaining are the impossible to reach areas behind wires, tubes and hoses, etc. In those areas Corrosion X may be the next best prevention. But in the examples the OP posted, those are easily blasted and repainted with high quality paint, and or heavy duty undercoating materials that often used for larger surface areas.

My approach would be blast, paint, and consider Corrosion X in hard to get areas, using a combination of both, given the photo of the OP. I would say it certainly needs some surface prep, right? Or are you suggesting to do nothing but spray it with Corrosion X, letting it look ugly?

[akeagle]

Originally Posted by rjsupersonic

If you travel to any manufacture of motor homes you will see hundreds of chassis sitting in a parking lot waiting to hit the production line. I have no doubt that the rust issues begin there sitting in the rain and snow for weeks.

I grew up in the "rust belt", Indiana to be specific, and I've seen frame rust like that, but it was on vehicles several years old. That should definitely NOT be happening on a new vehicle, even if it has been sitting on the factory lot for as long as a year. There is certainly something wrong with this one, and I wouldn't accept it either. Either Ford or Winnebago or both need to take responsibility and either fix it or replace it.

[Old Crows]

Correct. Not paint. Corrosion X HD is a spray on material that chemically stops the oxidation an helps prevent it. It is light gold/tan in droplets but will dry clear. The regular version is nearly clear. It is not greasy or oily when it drys. Drying may take several hours or a day or two depending on conditions. It leaves a slightly darkened surface on steel and iron that slowly turns more metallic when dry. Areas of heavy corrosion will turn black to dark grey as if the metal was stained. On some articles it may take a couple days for it to convert the rust. It eventually leaves a protected surface.

You may have to reapply in spots over time. Usually once is enough.

I don't sell this stuff. I came across it about 10 years ago when looking for a product to remove and protect a painted bumper on our Turbo Beetle from exhaust soot. They make a product called Rejec-X that is used on aircraft to remove and protect against exhaust soot, bug and oil stains.

Corrosion-X is also an excellent product for loosening rusted nuts, bolts and fittings. Or, as a light lube/protectant for tools, blades, pruners, outdoor and garden tools.

We're it mine, I'd clear away the heaviest, flaky, and rough areas and spray it up. Maybe come back in a couple days and retouch it. Recheck things maybe once a year.

It is underneath the RV and over time it is going to catch hell as it is driven in all conditions. No need to put a $10 grand finish on the underside. Just protect it.

The chassis mfgrs save every dime they can so I'd not expect a professional powdercoated frame and gear. They splash on the cheapest paint on a just good enough prep job to get it off the dealer's lot. Also, the chassis may be 1 or 2 years older than the coach so it has been sitting in outdoor storage for a couple years before it was upfitted.

[Stevemac11]

Thank you all for the information. I too recently bought a 2018 Minnie Winnie and I will be checking the chassis in the morning. I see Tony mentioned his is an F350. Is that the case or is it an E 350. Stevemac111

[skyking]

Tony,
From your photos, it appears that the components that are rusting, are parts that Winnebago added. The Ford frame and hardware seem to be rust free.
I've been working with vehicles all my adult life and am old enough to remember when anything from Japan was junk (50's-60's). I mention this, because our cars of that era rusted quickly. The automotive industry corrected that in the 80's, by treating the metal parts with rust inhibiting coatings. From what I've seen, it has worked well.
It seems that Winnebago has not done the same. If I'm right, they or their sub-contractors are not properly preparing or treating their metal parts for rust and corrosion. Tony's electrical connection bracket and gas tank shield (?) are perfect examples.
Winnebago should know better!
Richard

[TonyOIB]

That would be an E350, thanks for bringing that up to my attention. And please let us know your findings....BTW I find it strange that many who responded to my posts have been very complacent in the fact that these RV manufacturers do such superficial (if any) preventative weather proofing treatments on their under bellies. They find it perfectly acceptable to spend a lot of their time and lots of money cleaning, scraping, sand blasting using different paints and chemicals to protect the most vulnerable part of their investment. Some have even suggested for me to just accept this as a given and start working on it. Isn't THIS is what the manufacturer's should have done?? SHOULDN'T we hold them to higher standards??

[Dave11]

This sort of underbody rust is fairly common although it shouldn't be. I looked at quite a few Winnebagos (WI) before I bought one and the majority had significant surface rust on the steel pieces supplied by WI, much less on the chassis itself. From looking at the pictures I would say yours fits that description.
When you listen to the WI marketing they boast about their prowess with making their own steel components and longevity, etc. The truth is their anti corrosion techniques are not very effective, probably similar to any other manufacturer. WI is pretty famous for the windshield frame rust issues on class A models which continued through multiple years with no remedy. Unlike the windshield rust issue the underbody is more out of sight and out of mind.
I have no idea how a legal challenge will work out but I would guess that over the years this has been tried many times. Hopefully you will get some assistance by WI or the dealer this time. As time goes on though the warranty will expire and you will be on your own.
My RV is about 10 years old and has surface rust on some of the WI portions and the electric steps but very little on the Ford chassis. It bothers me so I have been working on scraping the effected areas and treating them with Rustoleum rusty metal primer. It is a bit of a pain to have to do it but not at all difficult. At some point in the future when I move to a newer unit I hope this effort will help with holding resale value.

P.S. Tony, I was typing my reply when you posted your last comment. I guess I am one of the complacent ones, it is an industry wide issue I really see no way around it. The truth is my repair method is very inexpensive and not really very time intensive. I agree with you that the manufacturer should do a proper job so we don't have to repair it, but it is what it is.

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by TonyOIB

... I find it strange that many who responded to my posts have been very complacent in the fact that these RV manufacturers do such superficial (if any) preventative weather proofing treatments on their under bellies. They find it perfectly acceptable to spend a lot of their time and lots of money cleaning, scraping, sand blasting using different paints and chemicals to protect the most vulnerable part of their investment. Some have even suggested for me to just accept this as a given and start working on it. Isn't THIS is what the manufacturer's should have done?? SHOULDN'T we hold them to higher standards??

Surprised are we? Most owners are concerned with fake electric faux fireplaces, double pane windows of dubious value, outside big screen TVs (to annoy your RV park neighbors), "instant hot water" and black tank flushing systems (who sanitizes their septic system????). They really do not give a hoot about the under side of their expensive RV.

Frankly, much of that rust is cosmetic (and annoying to some). Start looking at old (I mean OLD) RVs in the Wally World parking lot. There's a hell of a lot of them with bubbling and distorted fiberglass walls, UV damaged plastic components that disintegrate at a touch, and peeling decals and sun bleached paint. Those rusty bits underneath are still working hard to hold the shambles together as it wobbles down the highway.

RVs are not FOREVER vehicles. Neither are they collector vehicles like a Benz 300SL Gull Wing. They are houses built on wheels and just like that chassis is sits on, designed and built just well enough to get it off the lot and a day past the warranty period (if you can collect on it...).

The simplest solution is to modestly clean it up and lay on some 'real' 21st Century anti-corrosion chemistry .... Yeah. Yeah.. Used gallons of Rust-o-lieum back in the last century. Good stuff but not the same product today. They changed the formula back in the late '80s. And, being under the RV any paint is subject to weathering, rain, salt, dirt, sand blasting and high velocity abrasion. Sooner or later it is going to wear away and leave an opening for corrosion to happen.

Frankly, I'd be more concerned about 'soft' roof maintenance ... 'cuz that's where the big troubles begin.... but being a "Crow" I think a bit differently.