Installation of Onan Energy Command in Adventurer - Page 4

garybtt · 05-06-2007, 01:18 AM

Bill, Thanks to your initial guidence did I even attempt this and your directions made this very simple. Thanks again.

vicsryd · 05-06-2007, 04:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by garybtt:
In trying to keep the install simple, I used the 110 source for the Engine heater switch that is in the same area. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Gary,
Did you put that socket in downstream of the enginer heater switch (i.e. so shore power would only be detected if the switch was on)?

vicsryd · 05-06-2007, 04:49 AM

The part that bugging me about sensing shore power is if you truly want to sense shore power for real then it has to be independent of the inverter. To me it makes no sense to tap into the junction box, engine block heater circuit (same circuit as the hair dryer and GFC outlet in the bathroom in my floorplan), or any other outlet that has power supplied by the inverter.

To better understand what is exactly is required here I need information which does not appear to be posted in this thread. An electronic copy of the EC-30 installation/user manual would go a long way for me. However, it does not appear to be posted on the Onan web site. All I can find anywhere is the spec sheet. If anyone has a PDF they could post that would be huge.

My biggest questions are:

1. Does the presence of shore power only inhibits auto-start? Does it also cause the generator to shut down when it's already running due to low-battery or HVAC request? The basis of this question is the fact the suggested 110v taps all come live when the generator is running (i.e. could be self-defeating).

2. Does the presence of shore power prevent auto-start even if the battery is low?

Thanks.

garybtt · 05-06-2007, 05:47 AM

No, The socket was installed on the live side.
The unfortunate part is that this line is also supplied by the inverter.

peter griffin · 05-06-2007, 12:03 PM

HERE IS MY 2 CENTS.

Shore power prohibits the onan from starting when you are on shore power.

It does not shut down the onan when the ac is already on...each wire to the onan ec 30 has a specific function. If the thermo does not need power to run the ac or heat it tells the ec 30 to shut down.

When gen starts in auto mode the ec 30 will run the gen fo a min of 10 minutes. even if the call for ec 30 is no longer present such as thermo, batteries, etc...it is a safety to prevent quick excessive start and stops.

as for ac power make sure whatever you use for ac shore power sense always comes live when you plug in to shore power and not on a switch or 3 way switch etc. or only live with the inverter on.

As for the manual please email me and I will scan to you. [email protected]

cbeierl · 05-06-2007, 01:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by peter griffin:
...as for ac power make sure whatever you use for ac shore power sense always comes live when you plug in to shore power and not on a switch or 3 way switch etc. or only live with the inverter on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it sounds like it's OK for the 'shore power sense' to be active when either shore power is connected or the generator is running, since it will inhibit starting the generator but will not stop the generator once it's running. That would imply that any 120V circuit that's not on the inverter would be OK. Is that correct?

garybtt · 05-07-2007, 02:13 PM

As promised.

http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showph...o=4899&cat=674

Pusherman · 05-07-2007, 03:21 PM

Gary,

Nice install; very professional (I inspected it personally!!!).

vicsryd · 05-10-2007, 07:12 AM

Gary,

Very nice. Unfortunately in my case I don't have the room above my One-Place to move the water heater and engine block heater switches.

vicsryd · 05-10-2007, 07:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cbeierl:
So it sounds like it's OK for the 'shore power sense' to be active when either shore power is connected or the generator is running, since it will inhibit starting the generator but will not stop the generator once it's running. That would imply that any 120V circuit that's not on the inverter would be OK. Is that correct? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Chris, after reading the EC-30 installation manual (scanned copy sent to me by Peter Griffin

), IMHO the behavior of the EC-30 relative to "shore power sense" is the following:

1. The genset will run a minimum cycle time (i.e. 10 minutes or whatever the current adaptive value is) even if shore power comes on.

2. The EC-30 will not shut down the generator when shore power comes if there is a current HVAC request in process. When the HVAC request is completed then it will shut down the generator (assuming condition #1 has been met).

Under all other conditions, including low-battery, it will shut down when shore power comes on if minimum cycle time requirements are met.

My take shore power is difficult to set up for real as there is no direct source to tap before the transfer switch and/or inverter. As such my approach will be to use a 12v transformer on a 110v outlet internally and either unplug it or set up an in-line switch when I want to defeat shore power sense function (i.e. when boondocking). I will combine this with turning the inverter off when I'm really connected to shore power. A little complicated but all the way around this seems to met most of the possible scenarios one would encounter.

And for what it's worth I'm planning on using the stop side of the old generator switch (which I wont' be removing) as my safety switch. I'll configure the EC-30 safety detect option for brake-light mode.

tomsm · 05-10-2007, 07:38 AM

For what it's worth - I installed an ec30 about a year ago. I decided that I would get around the inverter problem by just leaving the inverter off when I wanted the ec30 to sense loss of shore power. That allowed me to use a nearby ac outlet in the bathroom. I know some (most?) people leave the inverter in standby all the time so it will kick in when they unplug the shore power. I guess it saves resetting the time on the clocks...

I only turn mine on when I want to use it.

When the ec30 gets the call from the thermostat and there is no ac power sensed, it starts the gen. It's supposed to know that it started the genny and not shut down when it senses the ac power coming from the genny. Mine didn't work that way - it would start up, sense ac, shut down, sense no ac, startup, etc. There were some timing delays in there but basically it was an endless loop. I intended to talk to Onan and see if there was a firmware update available, but went on to other things and never made the call. Someone else reported the same problem and solved it by tapping the ac sense where the shore line goes into the transfer switch, so the only possible ac it could see was shore power. It solved his problem and I decided to do it that way too, since it would also mean it wouldn't matter if the inverter was on or off.

Still haven't figured out how to get from the one-place back to the power compartment...maybe someday...

Anyway, it works great at topping up the house batteries when needed.

tomsm · 05-10-2007, 07:54 AM

I should add, mine works great for boondocking when shore power sensing is not a player. But, it doesn't protect the pets from a power failure in the RV park during times when air conditioning is needed and that's really what I bought it for...

smlranger · 05-10-2007, 09:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomsm:
I should add, mine works great for boondocking when shore power sensing is not a player. But, it doesn't protect the pets from a power failure in the RV park during times when air conditioning is needed and that's really what I bought it for... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Protecting the pooch from being baked in an oven would be my primary reason for adding this feature. I'm a bit confused...I don't activate my inverter unless I am without shore power or the genset is off (might use inverter at night in a Walmart lot). In my case, why could I not sense the loss of shore power by tapping the hot side of the water heater electric switch just above my One Place panel?

However, based on what you describe Tom (the endless loop of gen auto on, sense power, gen off, etc.) I would still have that problem. So, I could tap shore power where it comes out of my hard-wired surge protecter before transfer switch. On my 36G, if you could get a wire from rear power compartment to the waste tank compartment, access to the space with the One Place is immediately above the tanks.

tomsm · 05-10-2007, 09:48 AM

You're right on both points. If you don't leave your inverter "armed", as many do, you can tap the ac at the most convenient point. Mine is not working "as advertised" and at least one other on this thread also had the problem. We may just have an early version of the firmware cause it seems to work ok for others.

If I were you, I'd go ahead an install it using the water heater power for sense and if it doesn't work, then go back and pick up the sense at your surge guard.

I've to get off my you know what and get that finished up right. It's a great little device and good insurance for the critters...

jr johnson · 05-10-2007, 09:59 AM

the best way to protect pups when park power is lost is to wire ec30 start command with a normally closed relay with a 120v coil. connect one side of relay contacts to a 12v positive from house or chassis battery and other side to gen start command. the coil on relay is fed from 120v incoming power before surge guard. when power is present the relay is made opening contacts. loss of power drops relay out and makes contacts starting gen. wiring system in this manner does not require a/c start command just set a/c for cool and set temp.

jr johnson · 05-10-2007, 10:03 AM

just wanted to add i have mine wired in this manner and it works great pups stay cool as long as you remember to set ec30 to auto when you leave r/v.

smlranger · 05-10-2007, 10:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jr johnson:
the best way to protect pups when park power is lost is to wire ec30 start command with a normally closed relay with a 120v coil. connect one side of relay contacts to a 12v positive from house or chassis battery and other side to gen start command. the coil on relay is fed from 120v incoming power before surge guard. when power is present the relay is made opening contacts. loss of power drops relay out and makes contacts starting gen. wiring system in this manner does not require a/c start command just set a/c for cool and set temp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doing this would eliminate the need for the 120VAC to 12VDC transformer, correct??

jr johnson · 05-10-2007, 10:08 AM

yes it does

jr johnson · 05-10-2007, 10:12 AM

the relay i used was a 90-341 this can be purchased from any refrigeration or a/c supply or possibly radio shack

vicsryd · 05-10-2007, 11:58 AM

I like the relay idea. But unfortunately there was no room in my electrical bay (Journey 34H bay is dinky) to safely do an "internal" SurgeGuard. So I ended up with a locked "outdoor" unit on the end of my 50 amp cord.

Since I have a 110v outlet hidden in a cabinet just below my One-Place (had a battery vac plugged into it from the factory) I think the transformer plus a switch plus turning the inverter off while on shore power (which I typically do anyway) will be simple and sufficient.

I'll try the relay idea when on the next coach (Horizon circa 2010 I hope

).