Engine Battery charging issues

[B Bickelmann]

I bought my 2005 Journey, 36G a couple of months ago, I've been staying at a RV park for a little more than two months, noticed the engine battery charge voltage was low and a couple of days later it seems to be zero.

I ran the generator for a few hours and little or no charge to engine batteries.

Can I hook up a battery charger? Can both batteries be recharged at the same time or do I disconnect one and charge it and then do the same to the other one?

I'm afraid to do damage to the electrical system.

Thank you
Bob

[Eagle5]

I'm pretty sure your generator will not charge your main motor battery. I assume you just have one main motor battery, right? If it is at zero voltage, it probably will not recharge, so you should take it out and get it tested. Once your main motor battery is either charged or replaced with a new battery, I would suggest you get a maintenance charger, which can back-feed your main motor battery through a cigarette lighter outlet. Just plug it into one of your house 120 VAC outlets.

[ThomB]

Consider getting and installing one of these.
It Hooks between the house batteries and draws power from them to trickle charge the chassis battery. We had the same issue with parking for a while and having issues with the starter battery going flat and this fixed the issue.

AMP-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer - Overview Page

[Cataska]

Yes you can use a battery charger just charge the house battery first if they are connected with a amp l or similar the chassi battery will charge when the house is charged if not charge seperatley.

[cbeierl]

Here a Winnebago Service Tip 2006-04 Trik-L-Start - on installing the Trik-L-Start (little brother of the Amp-L-Start referenced above) in our coaches to keep the chassis batteries charged up whenever the coach batteries are being charged. Works great! (Winnebago started installing them as standard equipment on the 2006 DPs.) [Note that the Trik-L-Start link in the pdf is outdated, here's a current one: Trik-L-Start.]

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by B Bickelmann

I bought my 2005 Journey, 36G a couple of months ago, I've been staying at a RV park for a little more than two months, noticed the engine battery charge voltage was low and a couple of days later it seems to be zero.

I ran the generator for a few hours and little or no charge to engine batteries.

Can I hook up a battery charger? Can both batteries be recharged at the same time or do I disconnect one and charge it and then do the same to the other one?

I'm afraid to do damage to the electrical system.

Thank you
Bob

Bob,
As usual, Chris comes through with appropriate answers, wiring and suggestions. You have a Winnebago Journey, 36G DIESEL coach. And as such, you may, or may not, have what's called an "INVERTER/CHARGER". The original versions in that coach, SHOULD be a Dimensions 2000 watt, inverter/charger. However, it is possible that the original owners or, whoever ordered that coach, did not opt for that 2000 watt inverter/charger and, opted for the much smaller and waaaaaaay cheaper, 600 watt unit, normally located up in or around the TV compartment.

But, in the event that you DO HAVE the Dimensions 2000 watt Inverter/Charger, this is how things work on YOUR COACH! That inverter/charger, as implied by the descriptive name, is an INVERTER and, it's a CHARGER. In the inverter operation, as you may already know, it takes your 12VDC battery power and INVERTS it, to 120VAC. And, when that's happening, you'll have certain outlets in your coach, that are powered up by that inverter. Maybe all of them, maybe not, it depends on how it was wired at the factory.

Now, as for the charger side. It has a basic, 3-stage charger. In that, if you've been "boondocking" for say quite a while and your HOUSE batteries are down by quite a bit, and then you plug into shore power, the charger side of that inverter/charger goes into the charging mode with a full head of steam. That is, it starts out on a low set of batteries, with a very high rate/amps of charging. I forgot what the first level of charging is called. But, once the charger determines that, that level of charging is adequate, it then drops down to the "Acceptance" level of charging.

It will hold that level for a while until it decides, that the batteries are almost up to par. From that point on, it will drop to the "Float" level of charging. In that mode, you'll see maybe 3 amps dropping to 1 amp, in a given amount of time, based on the condition of the batteries, if you're using them at the time of charging etc.

Now, that's how the basic system works, FOR THE HOUSE BATTERIES ONLY !!!!!!!!!! Chris sent you a link, that was an implementation that Winnebago implemented in the early part of the '06 model year. Up until then, the Inverter/Chargers ONLY charged the house batteries, while on shore power. When the "Trik-L-Start" came out, Winne decided to install it, to help oleviate the "dead chassis" battery problems that plagued so many Winne and Itasca owners up until then.

Now, what that Trik-L-Start or, its newer bigger brother, the Amp-L-Start, do is simple. Neither of them are BATTERY CHARGERS!!!!!!!!!!! What they do is this. They or, one of them, is installed between the house batteries and the chassis batteries. When the inverter/charger goes into the charging mode, no matter what level of charging, the Trik-L-Start or the Amp-L-Start (which ever is installed) sees that charging, it analyzes the voltage difference between the two battery banks.

When it sees that there is a .5v difference, it steps into action. All either one of them does is, siphons off, SOME of the amperage/voltage/charging that is destined for the house batteries, and sends it to the chassis batteries. The Trik-L-Start is limited to a maximum of 5 amps to be sent to the chassis batteries. The Amp-L-Start is limited to a maximum of 15 amps, to be diverted to the chassis batteries.

Now, that's how those two systems work. Sorry for the War and Peace novel but, it helps for owners to understand how things work, in order to help them analyze problems when they happen. You can install the Trik-L-Start or the Amp-L-Start in a matter of about 20 minutes or less. For your coach, the most appropriate place is where Winnebago installed it from the factory, on later model coaches. And that place is, up front, where you lift the hood, over the generator. It will be placed INSIDE that box, with a panel cover over it that says: " Disconnect solenoid" behind cover. You'll see the instructions on how to install it. I did just that, only on a Vectra and a Horizon, all that equipment is behind the left rear dual wheels, in the shore power electric compartment.

Once that Trik-L-Start or Amp-L-Start is installed, all your low voltage chassis battery problems will be behind you and, that system is completely automatic. And, it's a simple plan, to install it. No messing with any form of auxiliary battery chargers and all that junk. Good luck.
Scott

[B Bickelmann]

Hi Scott, thank you for taking so much of your time to explain things, I ordered the new unit, 15 Amp I was thinking I'd attach it in the battery compartment but the front area sounds better, less heat and fumes? Will the instructions show me how to wire it up?

I've been charging the two engine batteries and they seem to be almost fully charged.

Thank you very much for the help, its amazing to find so many helpful people out there who are generous with their time and knowledge. I'm new to the diesel pusher and am finding the diesel pushers are nice but are more complicated.

Bob

[B Bickelmann]

Originally Posted by cbeierl

Here a Winnebago Service Tip 2006-04 Trik-L-Start - on installing the Trik-L-Start (little brother of the Amp-L-Start referenced above) in our coaches to keep the chassis batteries charged up whenever the coach batteries are being charged. Works great! (Winnebago started installing them as standard equipment on the 2006 DPs.) [Note that the Trik-L-Start link in the pdf is outdated, here's a current one: Trik-L-Start.]

Chris, thank you. I printed the instructions out but will need to review and or get more help later? I ordered the new one and have charged the engine batteries so once I know what to do, I'll give it a try.

Bob

Post 3


I'm not familiar with this site, hope my thank you gets back to those who helped me?

[Mike Owens]

Originally Posted by B Bickelmann

Chris, thank you. I printed the instructions out but will need to review and or get more help later? I ordered the new one and have charged the engine batteries so once I know what to do, I'll give it a try.

Bob

Post 3


I'm not familiar with this site, hope my thank you gets back to those who helped me?

So when someone comments (like you just did) others who have posted get a notification that someone has commented. So they should get it. First thing I did was install a trik-l-start in my Navion/View. They stopped installing them as a standard in 2016.

[Bigpeetee]

Our '04 Vectra has a trick l charge, extra bonus, we have fitted 3x 220w solar panels on the roof (660w in total) now we never have flat batteries even here in the UK that gets little sun through the winter. Both batteries full by midday.

In fact, from April to the end of September, we don't have the shore power used on the charger. We full time for 6 months through the summer and have quite a large power draw on the 12v circuits.

Changed all lamps to LED helped a lot!!

[Mongobird]

Since this thread seemed to pretty much hit the nail on the head, I thought I would post a sort of addendum here as to how I am considering solving my problem of keeping all batteries topped.

First, I am admittedly a fan of smart chargers, as they can use different profiles for different battery chemistries. The prevalent ones are flooded, for chassis batteries, where a large starter current is needed, and the batteries are seldom run down much, in theory at least. The second chemistry is AGM, which is better suited for house batteries, and will tolerate better cycles, and if cycled much tends to not need electrolyte (or rather water) replenishment.

In my 2004 Itasca Meridian, 34H, some 120VAC outlets are powered by the Dimensions 2000 inverter. Other outlets are only powered when there is short power or when the generator is running.

Since the use cases for wanting the chassis batteries is when the RV is parked for an extended period of time, and most likely on shore power, I have elected to install a smart charger, which would only be powered when on shore power or generator power. This protects me should there be a known situation where the chassis battery might get depleted, either by use or by parasitic style loads.

To restrict it's use to when there is short power, or the generator is running, I plan to power the smart charger off one of the 110VAC circuits which is not powered by the inverter.

By taking this approach, I am not relying on differentials between house and chassis batteries, and in fact the chassis battery could get charged even if the house batteries are not installed, as long as there is shore power (or the generator). The Smart Chargers as a group are pretty good about tolerating wide power input, many rated to 65V to 250 VAC, so poor power is less likely to cause non-operation.

I realize that this is different from many setups that people may have, and I am not trying to suggest that anyone should adopt my approach, rather I am just sharing the approach.

sidebar: So in the basement by the propane tank, there is a Kussmaul charger, and a male receptacle, apparently there to charge chassis batteries during longer term storage. Kussmaul seems to make things for the fire and EMS sector, and this unit has been advertised as a unit to keep rigs ready to run between calls. It appears to support about a 12amp charge rate. But it is not a smart charger, and even though it is there, I do not think I want it connected all the time when not using the rig. It appears to be an adaption done by the 1st owner to address low chassis batteries.