Do I need ailerons or flopper stoppers?

Wetstuff · 10-08-2018, 01:47 PM

You, pilots and mariners, will know of what I speak... I have had my Sightseer since spring but have not driven it much. (I am both busy and having too much fun working on it.)

I automatically had the FE aligned at the Freightliner dealer, there are new tires and Konis at all four corners ...but, I am a little nervous.

I am a little timid because I sense a roll, or banking, that makes me feel as if I am sitting high on a skateboard when I get a gust of wind. I haven't gone off center much, but every once in a while get a little queasy...

Are these generally 'self-righting'? ...'just hold the wheel steady without adding correction? I figured a bunch of you would know. Thanks.

Jim

akeagle · 10-08-2018, 09:27 PM

Our 2016 Minnie Winnie is new to us, having bought it just before winter last year. Did a few short trips with it this summer before going on a long trip (Alaska to Indiana and back) in August. Shortly after starting the trip I noticed a slight pull to the right. It wasn't too bad so I tolerated it for the rest of the trip. Significant crosswinds and passing truck were definitely noticeable but I didn't consider it excessive or scary. After we returned I noticed the outside edges of the front tires were wearing faster than the rest of the tread, so it took it to an alignment center that specializes in RVs. They put it on the machine which said the caster was off significantly and that since Ford didn't put adjustable bushings on our E450 they'd had to replace them. That wasn't cheap, but as I drove home there was no pull whatsoever. All this probably doesn't really answer your question, but I feel its reasonable to assume that since we're driving huge flat-sided boxes its inevitable that we'll feel the crosswinds and passing vehicles and the MH will want to drift at least a little, so yes, at least a little correction will probably be necessary. On the other hand, if it requires a lot of effort to maintain control there may be other issues involved. As I've seen on this thread and others, various suspension parts may need attention too. By the way, I'm not a pilot but I was an air traffic controller and I'm familiar with some of your terminology!

Wetstuff · 10-09-2018, 06:48 AM

"I feel its reasonable to assume that since we're driving huge flat-sided boxes its inevitable that we'll feel the crosswinds and passing vehicles.."

Thanks, AKE... About two centuries ago I drove 2.5 & 5Ts in the Army, but 19yr olds are sensitive to or anticipate - nuthin' ...plus, I'm sure they were more heavily suspended. Friends around the corner run rollbacks and throw all sorts of stuff on the carrier deck and go roaring off like 'time is money'. Before I bought this one, I talked to a seller of the same type unit in PA; he had just finished a R/T PA—AZ run on I-70 or 80. "No problem?!" ...but he also had been a regional trucker.

I sense that getting old makes me look at things like ice as potential head injuries rather than a skating rink. I just might have to put on my 'big boy pants' and wait for a couple of windy days and go out and pick a fight. There's plenty of no-traffic roads in my area. Thanks.

Jim

BobC · 10-09-2018, 09:47 AM

Are you carrying a normal load? My handling seemed to improve when I was loaded for travel. Conversely, overloading will cause problems as well.

Wetstuff · 10-09-2018, 11:18 AM

That may be an issue, Bob. I've never filled the tanks, besides gas. Perhaps they'd lower the CG and/or provide some ballast? I'd need to wait 'till I knew I was going somewhere ...because that's a whole new area of learning! Thanks.

Jim

BobC · 10-09-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetstuff

That may be an issue, Bob. I've never filled the tanks, besides gas. Perhaps they'd lower the CG and/or provide some ballast? I'd need to wait 'till I knew I was going somewhere ...because that's a whole new area of learning! Thanks.

Jim

Let us know how it turns out. I think you'll notice a difference. Also, after you're loaded for travel, make sure to weigh your rig (truck stop or other weigh station) and inflate your tires to the proper pressure for your weight. Although you can't go wrong with the PSIs on your door placard, they are likely higher than necessary and can result in a rough ride. Here's a link to help you sort this out:

https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire...n-loading.aspx

You should be able to find weight/pressure charts on the internet for your tires. The general rule of thumb is to inflate 10% higher than the table pressure for your weight.

akeagle · 10-09-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetstuff

"I feel its reasonable to assume that since we're driving huge flat-sided boxes its inevitable that we'll feel the crosswinds and passing vehicles.."

Thanks, AKE... About two centuries ago I drove 2.5 & 5Ts in the Army, but 19yr olds are sensitive to or anticipate - nuthin' ...plus, I'm sure they were more heavily suspended. Friends around the corner run rollbacks and throw all sorts of stuff on the carrier deck and go roaring off like 'time is money'. Before I bought this one, I talked to a seller of the same type unit in PA; he had just finished a R/T PA—AZ run on I-70 or 80. "No problem?!" ...but he also had been a regional trucker.

I sense that getting old makes me look at things like ice as potential head injuries rather than a skating rink. I just might have to put on my 'big boy pants' and wait for a couple of windy days and go out and pick a fight. There's plenty of no-traffic roads in my area. Thanks.

Jim

I like your style, Jim! Apparently unlike your neighbor, I consider careful planning and preparation to be extremely important parts of any trip. I don't think I'm anal about it, but so far we've had no breakdowns or significant unexpected issues. That said, I probably could be accused of carrying to many tools and "just in case" spare parts.

BobC · 10-09-2018, 11:41 PM

I forgot to mention that, as a former sailboater and son of an Air Force pilot, the ailerons and flopper-stoppers reference got my attention.

Wetstuff · 10-10-2018, 11:14 AM

Tank's guys!

Bob, That Goodyear post an excellent summary. Maybe I should first check the inflation!

I haven't sailed in years. My fondest memories were iceboats in Wisconsin. I was SAIL's 'guy in the Midwest' for a couple of years when it changed from 'The Institute for the Advancement of Sailing' to a glossy mag in the early 70's. Then moved into selling boats for a company in Nova Scotia ..then Detroit ..then simply got tired of being around it.

I kiteboarded/surfed for about 11yrs starting in the early 2000s ...then I started to take some pretty good thrashings. (I got too relaxed in a pasture full of bulls.) There are gusty days when I'd think I'd like to wring the fizz out a Laser or some little, bootstrapped single ...but, Naaa ...the hands on my clock are moving too fast. Cheers.

Jim

BTW.. there's one of us who is still a competitive SUNFISH sailor. There is someone who doesn't lose focus easily.

BobC · 10-10-2018, 03:14 PM

Just make sure you load up and weigh at least front and rear if not the four corners before fiddling with the inflation.

My last boat (sold in 2014) was a Catalina 30 that we kept in Stockton, CA and sailed the Delta and SF Bay. I've spent many, many hours reading SAIL and dreaming of adventures. Most of our sailing friends are now our RV friends!

Wetstuff · 10-11-2018, 06:56 AM

Cool, Bob... The Catalina 30 was a true winner. I gather it stayed popular for many years.

Little inside story: I can't remember his name, but the Westcoast sales rep caused a stir on Commercial Wharf — his commissions were more than Bernie Goldhirsh's (publisher) take home. Of course, Bernie could not be replaced ...and/but, the rep also had a solid foothold in the West. I don't know how it was resolved... Cheers.

Jim

DryCreek · 10-14-2018, 05:30 PM

You might want to look into the "Cheap Handling Fix".
It's worth a try. It helps with the "roll" felt as you pass over uneven surfaces. If you feel a good bit of wind push, then you might also want to look into a rear panhard bar - also known as a track bar. It keeps the chassis centered over the axle by eliminating the "flex" from the rear spring pack. Another way to describe it as "yaw" control.

Wetstuff · 10-15-2018, 10:19 AM

Roger, Creek... I know about 'Panhard bars'. 'Makes sense. If it's not $995 and a $375. install I might consider it.

...no experience, mind you, but I am assuming — if the weather gets really nasty, 'you simply stop'; you are already at your other "home". Cheers.

Jim

RTrider · 10-15-2018, 10:22 AM

Wetstuff,

You have a couple of things going on. Not only does the MH have a high center of gravity, but you are sitting very high off the road. You will definitely feel the roll and movement more than you would if you are closer to the ground. I'm in a nearly 40' Adventurer and I can tell you it moves and there is some tail wag. Just like flying small airplanes flying though thermal, you don't fight it, but small corrections will be necessary, just make them smooth minor corrections. That will be particularly true on windy days. I find quartering headwinds the worse. There are some aftermarket anti-roll equipment that can be added. I have not, but have talked to several people that say they make a significant difference. Happy travels.

BobC · 10-15-2018, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DryCreek

You might want to look into the "Cheap Handling Fix".
It's worth a try. It helps with the "roll" felt as you pass over uneven surfaces. If you feel a good bit of wind push, then you might also want to look into a rear panhard bar - also known as a track bar. It keeps the chassis centered over the axle by eliminating the "flex" from the rear spring pack. Another way to describe it as "yaw" control.

If your chassis is a candidate for the "Cheap Handling Fix", you should probably try it first, before spending money on a panhard bar or other expensive suspension mods. I have a Workhorse chassis so I have no first hand experience with the CHF.

Here's the link: Cheap Handling Fix - iRV2 Forums

Good luck in sorting through the 380 pages. There are also some Youtube videos.

ke4jr · 10-15-2018, 08:01 PM

Had it on my last 40' Bounder and was the first upgrade I did to my 35' Winny after I bought it.
Had tose same issues and feelings everytime an 18 weel rig passed me and when evacuating south running away from a huricane on I-95, passed it on the oposite coast and the cross winds were scary, so I looked into the stabilizer bar on my steering and it did the trick.
I wont drive this rig without it, period!

akeagle · 10-15-2018, 11:39 PM

Great input, RT! I might add that the more one drives in adverse conditions, the more one can begin to anticipate the MH's movements and apply just enough counter pressure to minimize it.

Wetstuff · 10-16-2018, 09:31 AM

RT... My thoughts exactly - allow the mass to adapt/self-correct w/o a heavy hit of rudder. It's just 'Nervous Nelly' the first few times you hit a little lateral turbulence.

I guy went by me in my car in one of those massive/tall/shiny 40'ers with a Grand Cherokee in tow. It looked like it should have been painted in Santa Fe RR livery — massive! Thanks/Cheers.

Jim

DryCreek · 10-16-2018, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetstuff

Roger, Creek... I know about 'Panhard bars'. 'Makes sense. If it's not $995 and a $375. install I might consider it.

...no experience, mind you, but I am assuming — if the weather gets really nasty, 'you simply stop'; you are already at your other "home". Cheers.

Jim

The one I ordered through UltraRV was just a little over $450. It took me about three hours to install, but I was taking my time since it was hot that day.

CoveredWagon · 10-16-2018, 05:30 PM

Hi folks! This is my 2nd RV in 20 years. The first was a 1983 Pace Arrow 31 ft class A. No slides but plenty of wind drag! I now have a 2005 Winnebago Sightseer 29R. It has a much heavier chassis, a hungrier engine and 2 slides! I have also been a bus driver for a VA hospital for the past 16 year, driving a 36 passenger bus.
Any vehicle with a flat nose is going to have trouble in head winds! Any vehicle that is 10 feet tall with flat sides and no contouring will have side to side swaying in winds! Except for extremely high winds (60+ mph) the side to side swaying should not be a problem. It feels like you are fighting it to keep the rig upright, but the suspension should withstand that easily enough. Minor steering adjustments to keep it between the lines! My Sightseer also has a pneumatic sway control for the steering. It helps a little, but probably not worth the investment. It was there when I bought the RV.
My worst trip was while driving against a 70+ mph head wind ( I was going about 70 too) when the seal on my windshield failed! The bottom of the glass pushed in about 3 inches! When I tried to push it back out, the whole passenger side cracked! I bit of duct tape, clear packing tape, and a small crescent wrench as a wedge got me back on the road until I could stop long enough to replace the glass! It took 3 weeks after they ordered the glass! 1 week waiting for the glass, 1 week waiting for glass after they broke the 1st one, and 1 week waiting for a new seal when I refused to accept the job without a new seal! That was in 1998! Hopefully I don't have that problem again!