2019 forza 36g 250k Acquisition mistake

[THAWK]

Long thread;
we purchased a new 2019 forza 36 g a few months back. We really like the coach (sitting still in a nice park).
But we are curious, does every Winnebago made exhibit the symptoms of a cheap Chinese item. We knew we were not purchasing a "Prevost" (price was the first clue).
Our observation is a coach made with low quality product, many items with poor design and/or engineering, assembled with poor craftsmanship, and little or no quality control.
Complaint items the dealer repaired before we left the lot;
roller shades hung crooked - paint chips repaired - adhesive removed from the floor - bedroom headboard not secured to the wall - kitchen counter back splash fell off - filthy interior (not really corrected) - rear cap exterior molding falling off - water tank not secured, causing broken water piping (dealer repaired with construction adhesive. They didn't have the correct materials lol!) - dinette table installed crooked - and a few complaints that were not addressed.
Items in need of warranty repair;
street side slide making a loud popping noise when extending or retracting - curbside bedroom slide noisy when extending or retracting - curbside living room slide squeaking and rattling when traveling - shower enclosure making a popping noise when walking on bathroom floor - dash air operation is intermittent - left rear brake light operation is intermittent - transmission dipstick tube was installed incorrectly resulting in dipstick tube cap and dipstick cap being oval shaped - bad handling resulting from wandering when traveling faster than 55 mph.
Items we repaired or paid to have repaired;
coach tilted 2" to the left at the rear - baggage doors not adjusted correctly (1 would not open & 1 would not stay closed when traveling) - bath door would not stay closed when traveling - right front mudflap not installed correctly causing a squeak and rattle - shower enclosure was installed backwards (had to step over the toilet to get in) - wood shower molding fell off - shower light trim ring would not stay on - bedroom floor 1/4 round molding not secured - fuel fill access door(s) rattle when travel in windy conditions - back side of coach, rear end louver assembly not attached - replaced sewer access door with larger unit to allow the removal and replacement of hose without requiring disassembly -freezer can not be used to store ice when traveling - glass shelf on bottom of fridge would not stay in place (plastic shelf supporting glass is warped (winnebago says call whirlpool)
one of the front hood struts failed after a 200 mile trip.
And finally, sewer hose can not be put on stands because the auto level system leaves the coach too low (winnebago says use the manual method of adjustment to get the coach leveled higher).

What do you think? Is this the new norm for made in usa quality product?

Before you ask, two month wait for a local dealer to make repair. And, 3.5 hour drive to dealer we purchased from.

[SarahW]

Hello and welcome. Sorry you are having a bad experience with your new coach, but sadly your experience is fairly typical nowadays. If you read RVing forums you'll find many people have a similar story; it seems that the industry is churning out RVs and leaving the consumer to handle "QC." I hope everything is fixed to your satisfaction and that you will enjoy your RV going forward. Let us know how it goes.

[4x4van]

If I had found that many issues prior to driving it off the lot, I would never have bought the unit. How much of a PDI did you do?

[THAWK]

In hindsight your probably right. If you read the thread closely you will see multiple items we picked up on our PDI (none of those were picked up by the Dealer during their PDI).
The balance of items were found during our first trip home from the dealer and the first camping trip we made.
Trip we just returned from and now two more items picked up.

[creativepart]

You haven't said where you are located, or what dealer. But in a case like this, with this many issues, the only true way to handle this is to get on the phone with Winnebago service, make an appointment and drive to Iowa and have Winnebago fix EVERYTHING all at the same time.

I'm sorry to say that it's not like buying a Chevy that you can take to the dealer to have everything fixed. The dealer is probably the least likely place to successfully take care of this RV and you. The factory is in Northern Iowa just south of the Minnesota border. It's dead of winter. At this time of year and until May you can get into the factory service center easily. But from May to November the service center is totally booked up. The sooner you make an appointment the better off you'll be. And, everything is still under warranty.

Remember, even though it cost a lot of money, what you purchased was the cheapest diesel pusher that Winnebago makes. Much of the money you spent was put into the expensive diesel chassis. I know to you it's a massive investment and anything that costs this much should be perfect. But when diesel pusher RVs range from $250k to $800k+ you have to realize that something has to be "missing" from the cheapest versions. This applies not just to Winnebagos, but to every RV Brand.

I'm sure you don't want to hear any of what I'm saying and I don't really blame you. But I'd rather offer real world comments than sugar coat the situation.

I truly hope you can get all these issues corrected and happily enjoy your lovely motorhome for years to come.

[THAWK]

(CREATIVEPART)
I'm in southern California, dealer is in Las Vegas, Nv. The limited repair work that the dealer did warrants me never returning to them , even if i wanted to make the 7 hr round trip drive.

I'm semi retired, making a 3500 mile round trip run to the factory for repairs is not my idea of fun.

As I noted i knew i wasn't purchasing a high dollar rig! But, I was not prepared for extremely low value for the money spent (no matter what the amount is).
So I guess your thought is if i purchased a more expensive Winnebago i wouldn't have the poor quality I'm experiencing?

And your answer to my thread question "is this the new norm for made in the USA?) is yes?

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by THAWK

(CREATIVEPART)
I'm in southern California,
Making a 3500 mile round trip run to the factory for repairs is not my idea of fun.

Nope, it's not fun. However, if you want your RV fixed... that's what's probably necessary. I'm in South Texas and went to the factory on April 30th. 1,400 miles. It wasn't fun, but we then traveled another 2,500 miles visiting a lot of places up North that we normally wouldn't see. That was fun.

I just remembered, Winnebago has a new Class A Motorhome factory and Service Center in Junction City, Oregon. That has to be MUCH closer to you. They only build diesel pusher motorhomes at that factory. They don't build the Forza there but they could do a great job repairing your coach under warranty.

Originally Posted by THAWK

So I guess your thought is if i purchased a more expensive Winnebago i wouldn't have the poor quality I'm experiencing?

I would guess you'd have a list of issues, but it would be much shorter and less serious. Folks seem to be happier with their more expensive MHs.

Originally Posted by THAWK

And your answer to my thread question "is this the new norm for made in the USA?) is yes?

Folks that have been into RVing for a number of years and purchased many different motorhomes have learned:
1. Any motorhome at any price CAN have defects, sometimes too many
2. More expensive RVs have higher quality parts and are built slower. Generally less slapped together. But not 100% of the time.
3. More expensive RVs seem to get more attention from the selling dealer
4. Accepting an RV from the dealer without EXTENSIVE Pre-Delivery Inspection, training and proof of everything is working often leads to disappointment. It's always best to camp as close to the dealer as possible, even on site, after pickup to be able to immediately return to the selling dealer for immediate repairs. Once you leave, the dealer forgets you.
5. Many purchase newer used expensive motorhomes because their owners have already worked out most of the problems.
6. The RV Industry has a history of low quality manufacturing and poor quality control. The makers expect new owners to find and point out flaws.
7. Unfortunately, the reality is of RV ownership is sometimes, but not always, disappointing.

[rarebear.nm]

We have two RVs, one 5th and a Minnie Winnie. Both were bought used and we've been happy with that decision. I doubt if I would ever buy a new RV for just the reasons you are having and the large depreciation you'll take. I prefer leaving this stuff to someone else. Not all new RVs have that many issues, but its probably rare to find that does not have issues needing to be fixed. Some folks take their rig into a dealer after a couple of months for fixing and it sits there for many months for many sad reasons all the while the warranty is ticking away. When you get it back you may still have more issues and little warranty left. A detail PDI is so important. I spend over six hours going through, under and on our last purchase and operated everything before we even made an offer.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Coffie Drink]

IMHO there is no reason a customer should receive the build quality most RV companies are turning out. My experience as a new owner was wow, what a pos. Inside tires with screws and no air, on my View the pressure was very hard to check. 3 years later I have a PHD in dealing with my coach. I won’t list the issues but there were many.
I now have a very good coach. If you buy a coach, Expect the unexpected. It’s not a car. The dealer will fix stuff, You will be surprised when they tell you they are three months to get an appointment. Your AC may not work, too bad if you have to wait until end of Sept to get it fixed.
If you want to use your Coach say n the summer, expect it won’t have some things working. Like AC , or generator, or refrigerator. Expect it.
Now you want to drive it, expect to add many things to make it drive safe. There are many threads on the RV boards talking about what is needed. Buy a class A on a Ford chassis, that’s the only choice, expect to be loud, handles badly, needing many upgrades, It will sway, rock, ride very rough. Never drive where trucks can pass you, your hands will hurt fighting the wheel.
A class C is about the same. Mercedes makes a good chassis, it not setup stock to have a house added. My coach can be overloaded, if I put in water in the tanks, don’t think you can put 4 people in it, or what you need to camp for a week.
Let’s say you are rich and find that three old expensive coach with a 600 HP Cummings, better hope the engine doesn’t explode, bad EGR design.
There are some coaches that are better, there are lottery numbers that win. You won’t have either.
I do laugh when people a
Say to go to the factory for service. Great if you are near it, but do you hotel it, or drive the tow car home, did your wife expect this.?

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Coffie Drink

I do laugh when people a
Say to go to the factory for service. Great if you are near it, but do you hotel it, or drive the tow car home, did your wife expect this.?

I agree with your comments in the main. Except diesel pusher RVs have a record of high engine/drivetrain reliability. Very unlikely for the engine to "explode" - about the same as a tree falling on your home. But as you say, it's a lottery. So is life.

Lastly, there are camping spaces at all of the factories. Most with power posts. You "camp" at the service center and they come and take your RV each morning and return it each afternoon at 4pm for you to stay in it. Except in rare cases. The factories put Teams of workers on your coach tackling issues in waves and turn what would take 45-days at a dealer into a 2 to 3 day experience.

Yes, you have to spend your days in the nice service center waiting room, or take your toad and go exploring the area. We did both. They fixed 7 items on my list in 1.5 days total. We camped in interesting spots all the way to the factory and when it was finished at noon on the second day we took off for a new state we'd never visited before.

My wife wasn't crazy about it, but it wasn't bad and we met some nice people in the waiting area during our stay. It was much less frustrating than waiting a month to get a service appt at the dealer. Dropping off the coach for who knows how many months and getting it back with half or less of the items actually repaired.

[Coffie Drink]

I think we owners should not defend the work needed to get our Coaches drivable and livable. The industry has prevented states from having lemon laws. The car industry has improved greatly. In hindsight a one year warranty is a joke. Your local dealer suffers from low payout for that work, Would you buy a car and expect the same? The chassis has a better warranty but you will need to know where to get service.

[creativepart]

Coffie Drink, I do agree. However, I live in the present world as it currently exists. I hate to say it, but we're not going to stop buying imperfect RVs and as a result nothing will change until new RV sales fall for any reason other than economic conditions.

I personally think the RV manufacturers KNOW about the crap they're putting out - but they also know we're buying it. So, they don't see the upside in changing the way they do business.

[jpspaz]

I agree that the build quality in most mainstream RV manufacturers is not great but I would never expect a laundry list issues no matter how much I paid for it. We've been in the RV game for fifteen years and have had good luck. Our first was a trailer that had minimal issues. Currently we own a gas Class A Vista. Purchased it used from a guy that hardly used it and had it stored indoors for few years. It looked immaculate and there were some things that he never even used (i.e. furnace, awning, etc.). Lack of use caused other issues though and we had to replace the A/C compressor as it was shot from sitting and not being used. The point is this...we purchased a motorhome that was already put through its paces and the original owner dealt with all of the stupid stuff with the dealer in the first year. He even gave me the documentation on it. The original owner also ate the depreciation. I think those are the biggest benefits to buying a used versus new motorhome.

I understand that some want the latest and greatest and will only buy new. Leaving out the very high end manufacturers that are custom builds, I have heard very good things about Newmar and Tiffin. That they stand behind their products and do whatever necessary to make things right. I have never owned either but this is what I have heard from others. But that being said, I would expect more from Winnebago. I wouldn't want to drive to the factory either but if I thought it would get the care it deserved and would be a one time thing, I might go for it. At least then everything could be taken care of to your liking.

[Pianotuna]

It may be better to buy a used RV where many of the problems have been taken care of. If I could afford to buy new, I would buy factory direct.

[DryCreek]

Tell me more about the Forza.
What length? Chassis? Engine and Transmission? Fuel efficiency(mileage)?

We will be in the market for a used DP after I retire in six years. We really would jump on a Meridian 32T now if one in the right age bracket (up to 2008) and price were to suddenly materialize.

[THAWK]

The FORZA we bought is a Model 36G
37'-10" O.L.
340 HP CUMMINS diesel
FREIGHTLINER XCS chassis
ALLISON 2500MH 6 speed trans (THE ONLY ITEM WITH NO PROBLEM)
8 to 8.5 m.p.g.

[Hawkeye]

We had a 2007 Winnebago Journey that we had bought brand new and was very happy with the quality and workmanship. We wanted to upgrade and started looking at Winnebagos line-up, and was really disappointed in the selection and the quality. We ended up with a Newmar product. I hate to diss on a home state company, but I think their main focus is towables and van type 4x4 campers. They have also gotten into the boating industry after purchasing Chris Craft. We looked at two Winnebagos sitting on a dealers lot, and couldn't believe they would display something that had so many workmanship flaws. Really turned us off.

[DryCreek]

Originally Posted by THAWK

The FORZA we bought is a Model 36G
37'-10" O.L.
340 HP CUMMINS diesel
FREIGHTLINER XCS chassis
ALLISON 2500MH 6 speed trans (THE ONLY ITEM WITH NO PROBLEM)
8 to 8.5 m.p.g.

Thanks,
Is the Cummins the new V-8 that they are putting in the Nissan pickups now, or is the 6.7L ISB?

[GBFANKEN]

Pianotuna, Ask most Nexus owners "how buying factory direct is working out for them????"

[THAWK]

Drycreek:
6.7 isl