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Old 02-12-2019, 01:41 PM   #1
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2008 Journey Basic Electrical Block Diagram

I solved an electrical problem I was having, but now I am more confused! For over a month I periodically kept getting "dead battery" alert on the updated magnum power monitor and I would lose all power in the coach. My warning light above my solar monitor would light up showing low amperage for the batteries.

Background - had AM Solar install 4 solar panels, upgraded the inverter and installed a new magnum monitor. No problems for 4 years.

All the power in the coach (AC and DC) would go off. Batteries were in fact charged showing 13+V. I would switch all the main circuits off (battery and power bays that interface solar charging, battery charging, etc), then back on and that would restore power (and battery gauge would show 100% charge). Battery pack showed good at the posts, and the BMS circuits had continuity (checking next in line on advice from AM Solar). Then just over a week ago everything died. No matter what I could not get power on in the coach. Power monitor/surge protector on the pedestal showed good 50 amp power. Inside magnum monitor showed 1.4V DC. Working my way back from the battery I found a single fuse in-line from the batteries where the fuse cover was off, and the fuse had partially come out. Fuse was good, and after putting the fuse back in and putting the cover solidly back on to hold it in place everything was honky-Dorey. 13+V now on monitor (matching the battery post measurement).

I am trying to find a basic block diagram of the electrical. I have the wiring diagram, but that does not explain to (dummy) me why I need 12V in order for me to have 110V coach power when I'm plugged in to shore power. I understand that it must be going through some main power center that requires 12V in order to monitor the power and pass it on. However all the block diagrams I've seen show pedestal -> coach -> 110V outlets. Nothing in-between. Obviously there IS something between where the power enters the coach and the 110V outlets inside.

I know there are lots of experts here on-line and maybe someone has a more accurate block diagram of what's really going on.

Thanks in advance!

Trippin' Engles
Currently in Southern Texas
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:31 PM   #2
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Here’s a very basic generic block diagram that may help. Please understand this is generic and only depicts the possible and not the specific.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:31 AM   #3
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Thanks. This is good info, but does not show why 12V DC is required for any 120V to be available in the rig.
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #4
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I can see it being required if you have a electronic load center panel controlling the loads and switching. Without looking at your specific wiring it's hard to tell if you need it or not for your specific coach.

You will find that as time goes on and projects happen things can get out of sorts. Sounds like you need to get the factory diagram and have the installer of the latest mod do a as-build, as we call it in our industry, to document the connection to your systems. Sounds like the inverter is doing most of the coach now so 12vdc issue on the battery side will affect everything on the inverter.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:33 AM   #5
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Sounds like a plan. Thanks Mike.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:54 PM   #6
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In my 2006 Journey the 120V side works even with the AUX battery switched off. That is the microwave and outlets work. Fridge control panel needs 12V and air conditioner thermostat needs 12V so they won't work.

Your energy management system will shed high power devices if it detects 30amp power or your tell it you are on 20amp power, but I don't believe it can disconnect 120V power.

If you have an after market 120V AC power manager such as Progressive: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw50c it will disconnect shore power if it detects bad incoming power. However that will not disconnect 12V power.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jengle View Post
I solved an electrical problem I was having, but now I am more confused! For over a month I periodically kept getting "dead battery" alert on the updated magnum power monitor and I would lose all power in the coach. My warning light above my solar monitor would light up showing low amperage for the batteries.

Background - had AM Solar install 4 solar panels, upgraded the inverter and installed a new magnum monitor. No problems for 4 years.

All the power in the coach (AC and DC) would go off. Batteries were in fact charged showing 13+V. I would switch all the main circuits off (battery and power bays that interface solar charging, battery charging, etc), then back on and that would restore power (and battery gauge would show 100% charge). Battery pack showed good at the posts, and the BMS circuits had continuity (checking next in line on advice from AM Solar). Then just over a week ago everything died. No matter what I could not get power on in the coach. Power monitor/surge protector on the pedestal showed good 50 amp power. Inside magnum monitor showed 1.4V DC. Working my way back from the battery I found a single fuse in-line from the batteries where the fuse cover was off, and the fuse had partially come out. Fuse was good, and after putting the fuse back in and putting the cover solidly back on to hold it in place everything was honky-Dorey. 13+V now on monitor (matching the battery post measurement).

I am trying to find a basic block diagram of the electrical. I have the wiring diagram, but that does not explain to (dummy) me why I need 12V in order for me to have 110V coach power when I'm plugged in to shore power. I understand that it must be going through some main power center that requires 12V in order to monitor the power and pass it on. However all the block diagrams I've seen show pedestal -> coach -> 110V outlets. Nothing in-between. Obviously there IS something between where the power enters the coach and the 110V outlets inside.

I know there are lots of experts here on-line and maybe someone has a more accurate block diagram of what's really going on.

Thanks in advance!

Trippin' Engles
Currently in Southern Texas
You have told us many things here. What I don't see is that you lost ALL 120VAC power. If the inverter does not have power from the house batteries I am not certain that the ATS within it will operate properly. When shore power is applied to the inverter it wants to charge the batteries. Besides, I believe the remote control for the inverter is powered by the 12V house battery connected to the inverter. If you are using the inverter in the UPS mode it will always be ready to supply 120VAC IF it sees the 12V house battery condition as good and available. Only the inverter 120VAC sub-panel is affected. When plugged into shore power everything else should work even if the inverter is not functioning. http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_163688.pdf
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:42 AM   #8
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Having that fuse loose will cause the Magnum to go wonky, and the entire coach won’t like that there’s no solid 12v applied.. So not only does the Magnum get stupid, the fridge won’t work, and the EMS system also requires +12v to work at all.

My guess is that you DID have 120vac in the coach but didn't know it since the monitor panels that would show that all run in +12v.

Having said that, what fuse do you have thats not bolted in? On mine the factory OEM fuse located in the battery compartment is bolted on both sides.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:49 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the replies. No... I did not have ANY 120V power in the plugs, fridge or panel.

Got a reply back from AM Solar that explains it a bit:

Depending on your wiring, any passthrough capability will usually not be enabled unless the inverter is powered on and it's allowing power through. It sounds like yours is the case that the inverter controls if the power is passed through to the coach, and it's going to require 12V to power on.

We can say with past experience that it is very difficult to determine the wiring of Winnebagos by looking at their diagram, but you can usually discern it's wiring by the behavior in which the power flows.


End quote. The behavior is that there is NO pass through capability for our Journey. Power is routed through the inverter and the inverter needs 12V DC.

NOT what I expected, but the behavior is what it is! Fortunately for us the batteries were actually charged, it was just a loose fuse from a fuse cap being off.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:44 AM   #10
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5 Amp Fuse

Just one last quick note - the 5 amp fuse that was loose is between the lithium batteries' controller (black box) and a larger shut off switch both installed by AM Solar.

The fuse issue shut off 12V power to the rig, as if the factory shut off had been thrown disconnecting the battery.
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Old 02-20-2019, 09:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jengle View Post
Just one last quick note - the 5 amp fuse that was loose is between the lithium batteries' controller (black box) and a larger shut off switch both installed by AM Solar.

The fuse issue shut off 12V power to the rig, as if the factory shut off had been thrown disconnecting the battery.
Yes the fuse would act like turning off the factory shut off. It looks like the fuse is going to the battery controller, which is taking input from the BMS to insure the lithium batteries don't go over or under voltage and probably monitors temperature as well. I believe the round thing to the right of the battery controller is a solenoid which is activated by the controller as long as all battery conditions are good. If the 12V to the controller is missing the 12V from the controller to the solenoid is gone and the solenoid de-energizes which cuts all power from the battery to everything except the solar controller.
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