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Old 06-17-2016, 09:53 AM   #1
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2000 Journey no crank on first try

I have a 2000 Winnebago Journey with 5.9 ISB Cummins. I have an issue starting the engine. I turn the key to on, wait for the wait to start light to go out, and then turn key to crank and the instrument panel lights come on but the engine doesn't crank. I let got of the key and retry starting and the lights comes on again as usual and the engine cranks and fires right up. It happens like this almost every time I start it. Last week we had just finished getting fuel and it wouldn't start at all. lights came on but no crank (or any sound for that matter). After about 5 minutes I managed to get it started. I know the batteries are charged up so thats not the issue. I'm pretty sure its not the neutral safety switch. when I try to start without being in neutral the IP lights don't come on either. I'm thinking that it is the starter relay or the starter. I'm not sure where the starter relay is located (not the starter solenoid). Any one had a similar problem or a solution. We head out again in a couple weeks so I'd like to fix this before we go. Thanks for any help you can offer
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:22 AM   #2
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Welcome to the forum.

I've had to replace two starter relays on my Freightliner chassis .
The relay are on a plate , on the frame , between the batteries and the starter.
I hope this info will help because I don't know your coaches chassis.
Here's a document on the relay , if you're on a Freightliner chassis; and a picture of the mounting taken from under the battery tray, behind the RR duals in my case; it's the relay on the left, the other items are 135 amp fuses , for 12 volt system protection of the cables to the front of the coach.
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:42 AM   #3
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thanks for the info Skip. I've located a similar device on my chassis. its located on the inside of the frame on the driver's side near the starter. My Coach is built on a Freightliner Custom Chassis. You say you replaced your relay twice; did you have similar symptoms?
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:21 PM   #4
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Same thing happened to me on my 2001 Journey. Turned out to be a bad starter solenoid.
Cheap fix.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:27 PM   #5
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If I remember right its on the frame on the driver side. I do remember following the wire from the starter to it. Had to replace my starter solenoid. Easy and cheap fix. Mine also would sometimes crank and sometimes not.
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimster View Post
thanks for the info Skip. I've located a similar device on my chassis. its located on the inside of the frame on the driver's side near the starter. My Coach is built on a Freightliner Custom Chassis. You say you replaced your relay twice; did you have similar symptoms?
Both times , that the relay acted up, no cranking after the bulb check , first time at fuel pump I was stuck trying to start for 10 mins. Second time 1/2 hour at RV park check in finally had to go under and jump from the battery cable to the solenoid power stud to start the motor. You haven't lived till that motor cranks over and fires up with your face 3 inches from the oil pan.
I've since installed a fused circuit with a push button, to power the solenoid, in the engine bay so I don't have to crawl underneath, AND of course the relay hasn't failed since.

If you have a Denzo starter there are replaceable contacts in the solenoid that can give the same problem. There is a small plate on the end of the solenoid of the Denzo starter , that looks like home plate held with 3 small bolts. Here's a picture of the parts you'd need. You can just pull the plunger out and examine the contacts for burnt areas , some times with the starter in place. Batteries disconnected of course.
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Old 06-18-2016, 07:13 AM   #7
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This happened to my 2000 Itasca Horizon about 10 years ago. In my case the solenoid was located on the curb side of the passenger side frame rail. The Horizon is also on a Freightliner chassis. If I recall correctly I was able to start the engine by turning the key to the on position and using a screwdriver to jump two of the solenoid terminals together. I believe there are two solenoids close together and my wife turned the key to the start position and I could hear the faulty solenoid click. The new solenoid was not very expensive.
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Old 06-18-2016, 05:01 PM   #8
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You've probably noticed that lately ; even in parts books; that the words relay and solenoid are used as meaning the same .
Old timers like me used them slightly differently.
A device that uses low amp power to switch a high amp power circuit on and off used to be called, just, a relay.
A device that uses low amp power to switch a high amp power circuit , on and off and perform a second function was a solenoid.
So in this case the device, that takes the signal from the ignition switch, and is grounded through the neutral safety switch before supplying the power to signal the starter to crank is a relay.
While the device on the starter that gets the signal from the relay and closes the circuit between the batteries and the starter armature AND moves the starter drive to contact the ring gear is a solenoid.
When and how they got mixed up is a mystery , but it sure confuses this old ....
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:42 AM   #9
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I've gone ahead and bought a new starter solenoid..(the one attached to the starter). I've pulled the starter out and removed 2 bolts that attach the solenoid to the starter. When I pull the solenoid away from the starter the plunger is still attached. I can't seem to figure out how to separate them. Anyone else done this repair that can help me through it. Thanks in advance
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Old 06-24-2016, 02:31 PM   #10
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I should mention my starter is a Delco Remy 28MT
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimster View Post
I should mention my starter is a Delco Remy 28MT
HTH

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/CUCVTechn...als/1M-128.pdf






"Pivot inside end of solenoid assembly (1) out of


engagement with shift lever in gear reduction and


drive group (B) and withdraw solenoid assembly."


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Old 06-25-2016, 04:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimster View Post
I have a 2000 Winnebago Journey with 5.9 ISB Cummins. I have an issue starting the engine. I turn the key to on, wait for the wait to start light to go out, and then turn key to crank and the instrument panel lights come on but the engine doesn't crank. I let got of the key and retry starting and the lights comes on again as usual and the engine cranks and fires right up. It happens like this almost every time I start it. Last week we had just finished getting fuel and it wouldn't start at all. lights came on but no crank (or any sound for that matter). After about 5 minutes I managed to get it started. I know the batteries are charged up so thats not the issue. I'm pretty sure its not the neutral safety switch. when I try to start without being in neutral the IP lights don't come on either. I'm thinking that it is the starter relay or the starter. I'm not sure where the starter relay is located (not the starter solenoid). Any one had a similar problem or a solution. We head out again in a couple weeks so I'd like to fix this before we go. Thanks for any help you can offer
I recently had a similar problem. Before changing out any parts do a test.

Locate your start solenoid. Have someone turn to key and when the failure happens measure the voltage to ground on the small terminals. If you have the voltage there, it is a good chance the solenoid is bad. If you don't you could have a bad/corroded harness connector or, as in my case, a bad transmission control board. The neutral signal was not getting through the electronics of the board to pass the starting signal to the solenoid. The solenoid is fed by the transmission module. (That is the best I can explain it.)

I truly hope you have the cheaper fix.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:58 PM   #13
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Got the Solenoid changed out on the starter. Starter all back in place this morning. Engine fires up on first try every time i've tried it today. Looks like the solenoid was the culprit. I'm feeling relieved. Thanks for all the input guys.
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:40 AM   #14
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Got the Solenoid changed out on the starter. Starter all back in place this morning. Engine fires up on first try every time i've tried it today. Looks like the solenoid was the culprit. I'm feeling relieved. Thanks for all the input guys.
This is always good news. The "cheap" fixes are always the best ones.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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