UPDATE--EMS not recognizing 50 amp service

Carnles · 06-19-2007, 12:05 AM

I received a lot of good advice concerning this problem that I originally posted on April 21st. I have now been back to the dealer twice for various items that needed attention (including this one) and each time the technicians and service manager have not believed that there is anything wrong with my EMS.

I guess I don't really have an update yet, but the service manager has assured me that he will call Winnie and get back to me with the answer. I know for a fact that there are some RV technicians that have worked at that dealership for 20+ years so you would think that they would possess some basic troubleshooting skills and be able to at least identify that a problem does exist (even if they can't resolve it without manufacturer help). Thanks for indulging me as I blow off a little steam.

Carnles · 06-19-2007, 12:05 AM

I received a lot of good advice concerning this problem that I originally posted on April 21st. I have now been back to the dealer twice for various items that needed attention (including this one) and each time the technicians and service manager have not believed that there is anything wrong with my EMS.

I guess I don't really have an update yet, but the service manager has assured me that he will call Winnie and get back to me with the answer. I know for a fact that there are some RV technicians that have worked at that dealership for 20+ years so you would think that they would possess some basic troubleshooting skills and be able to at least identify that a problem does exist (even if they can't resolve it without manufacturer help). Thanks for indulging me as I blow off a little steam.

robbstein · 06-19-2007, 01:59 AM

Have you considered it may be the RV Park not the coach? I have had several cases where the EMS would not recognize a 50 amp circuit. In my case, the park was not correctly wired. We had 50 amp but they were the same phase. If I remember, the EMS requires a second phase to recognize 50 amp. Also had a campground not too long ago that was 50 amp, but the breakers showed only 25 amp each. I pointed this out to the owner and they corrected the problem the next day - it was the wrong size breakers since the place had been wired correctly. (Older park-new owner).

Robb & Sue Steinheider
03 Ultimate Advantage 40K
02 Saturn Toad

Outbumn · 06-19-2007, 02:16 AM

I had this same concern at the start of the season. My EMS readout that shows the amps you are using was blank when we hooked to 50 amp service. I had to read my manual a few times, but as I understand the EMS now it only shows amp usage when connected to shore power below 50 amps. When connected to 50 amp service, the readout is blank.

jtharley · 06-19-2007, 02:52 AM

I just got back from a week trip at 3 different camping locations. At each one the panel on the wall read 50 amp once connected to shore power.

I replied to the last thread about my 2005 Journey which would only read 30 amp when connected to 50 amp service. I called intllitec, they sent me a new control board and after a 15 minute installation (thanks to this forum) everything was normal again.

I took it to the dealer and had a tech come on site at one fo the campgrounds and both told me the sytem "tested" fine.....when it is all said and done I would be willing to bet that this is the issue. Way too many people having this problem in the past on this forum and others.

resqguy · 06-19-2007, 07:46 AM

I had the same problem as well. The EMS would show 30 amp when connected to a 50 amp service. The dealer swapped out the control board and it fixed the problem, for a while. About a year later it failed again. Now I'm back to reading 30 amps again.

Gene Rondenet · 06-19-2007, 01:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robbstein:
... We had 50 amp but they were the same phase.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't that be zero volts ??

Pusherman · 06-20-2007, 05:56 AM

For 50A services, If the park is wired correctly (with a double pole breaker tapping 2 sides (phases) of a panel), then across those 2 hot contacts it will read 220V.

If the park receptacle is wired incorrectly, with both hot contacts tapping off the same leg (phase) of the panel, then it will read 0V across the 2 hot contacts, even though there is 110V present on each side(no path to ground). You can verify this by taking the neutral lead of the meter and making contact with the neutral or ground, which will read 110V.

Note: You will read 110V in this manner when it is wired correctly as well, with each hot coming from the opposite leg (phase) of the panel, but in this case when you read across the 2 hots, you will get 220V.

When the 50A service is wired incorrectly with both hots coming from the same leg (phase) from the panel, This is actually a dangerous condition which can overrate the neutral wire, as the 2 hots amperage will be additive to the neutral wire, and you will over-current the neutral and possibly cause it to overheat, melt, and other bad things.

To check a 50A service, Take a voltmeter and check the voltage across the 2 hot terminals in the receptacle. If it reads 220V its OK; if it reads 0V it's not wired correctly.

PHESPE · 06-22-2007, 03:11 PM

It's a known problem
do a "FIND" on ems problem and read the several threads.

Or do a find on my ID phespe to find the same threads. There is a description on how to check 2 pins (4 and 6 I think)that show 240vac if all is working correctly.

It sure sounds like you have the same problem I, and others, had and fixed

PHESPE

It takes a new printed circuit board that was supplied free

Carnles · 06-22-2007, 05:00 PM

jtharley--when you got a replacement board from Intellitec did they just send you a new board after you discussed it over the phone or did they handle it some other way? I am considering contacting them instead of waiting for the dealer to finally come around to fix it. Also, to answer the other questions, I have tried several 50 amp sources, all of them I have checked for 240v to make sure it wasn't the supply. Still no luck.

jtharley · 06-23-2007, 10:06 AM

Intellitec just sent me one after a phone call and requested that I send back the old one. I don't like messing with anything electrical but this really was an easy fix.

The folks at Winnebago and Intellitec said this was a problem back in '04 & '05 and since so many folks had the same thing happen they where very accomodating.

jtharley · 06-23-2007, 10:07 AM

BTW- make sure you mark the wires when removing them from the old unit and simply put them back on in the same order.

Carnles · 06-24-2007, 03:27 AM

jtharley, thanks so much for the information. Maybe now I can get the system working properly.

resqguy · 07-07-2007, 07:42 AM

I found another thread that explained the problem. I went out to my coach and found the problem right away.

Here is the location of the EMS controller in a Horizon:

Here is the board that is fried:

Here is a close up of the board:

I will contact Intellitec for another replacement. This will be the 2nd time replacing this board.

jtharley · 07-07-2007, 10:11 AM

That's the bugger........After I replaced the board it worked fine. Wonder if it isn't something else if you've gone thru 2 boards already...Keep those wires in order and good luck.
Jim

Carnles · 07-07-2007, 05:22 PM

I called Intellitec after I checked the 240v input and the 12v control signal and they both checked good...the Intellitec rep, Mike, said that's what he would have recommended and said since they were both good to have my RV dealer/service rep call them for a replacement board.

So I called my dealer and told him and got a call about half an hour later explaining that they couldn't take my word for it and that they would have to troubleshoot before ordering the part. I explained to him (the service manager) that the RV has been in there several times and this particular problem has been looked at three times by their techs and they think it is working correctly, that's why I called Intellitec myself to get an expert opinion. Turns out I still have to let them duplicate my efforts before they will "warrantize" it. So frustrating!

I deal with Shipp's RV in Chattanooga and they are pretty good about most things (a little slow but I think that's how RV warranty stuff is) but this one thing is getting old...it would be nice to have the coach functioning at 100%!

Tom N · 07-07-2007, 05:51 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jtharley:
That's the bugger........After I replaced the board it worked fine. Wonder if it isn't something else if you've gone thru 2 boards already...Keep those wires in order and good luck.
Jim </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he got his replacement board from a dealer and it also failed it was probably one made during the time period when the mis-labeled diodes were being used.

I also had a bad board, called Intellitec, they explained the problem to me and sent me a new board. I installed it and all have been fine since.

I suggest calling Intellitec rather than securing a replacement from a dealer.

-Tom

Carnles · 07-08-2007, 12:03 AM

Tom, I like your suggestion but tried it and Mike at Intellitec told me I would have to go through the dealer. Maybe I should just buy one and try for a refund when I return the bad board?

jtharley · 07-08-2007, 06:33 AM

Tell the dealer and Intellitec that you will return the bad board to them and if it is not a problem you will pay for it.......I didn't have to do that they simply sent me a board because so many had gone bad (the reps words not mine). He requested I get an RMA # and send back the old part which I did.