Turning off House Batteries kills 50amp!?!

[Stevegd007]

I switch my Aux Battery off when on park (shore) power. All 12v my stuff still work through the power converter. When I get ready to travel I switch by to Aux Battery power to power all 12v stuff while on the road.

[pameridan04]

SOooooooooo

Are you saying that when I am camping with 50 amp shore power hooked up, I shut off my Aux Battery disc switch and turn ON my Inverter at my control panel to power all my lights and tv's..??? and it will convert/invert the shore power to all the other electrial stuff?

Jim P.

[Stevegd007]

No......not the inverter. The converter, should power 12v stuff on shore power. The converter should work with the Aux power switch off, while on shore power.

[RickO]

Originally Posted by Stevegd007

No......not the inverter. The converter, should power 12v stuff on shore power. The converter should work with the Aux power switch off, while on shore power.

That's what this entire thread is about. It doesn't seem to be consistent across all types of coaches and/or vintages. My coach, and apparently many others, don't seem to work that way and feedback on this and another forum seems to indicate that it depends on where the Aux switch is wired in the circuit. I'm calling Winnie factory in the morning and will see what they say. I don't necessarily NEED to be able to use the Aux switch while hooked to shore power... I just want to know if my coach is working as designed or if this is an indication that my Dimensions is getting dementia!

[azloafer]

I believe everything is working the way it should work, but my question would be, "why would you turn the aux power switch off when connected to shore power?" I don't turn anything off unless I am parked in the storage lot and then I turn both the aux switch off and the main battery switch so nothing is draining the battery. Have a good one, Joe

[Stevegd007]

Originally Posted by azloafer

I believe everything is working the way it should work, but my question would be, "why would you turn the aux power switch off when connected to shore power?" I don't turn anything off unless I am parked in the storage lot and then I turn both the aux switch off and the main battery switch so nothing is draining the battery. Have a good one, Joe

With the Aux power in the off position while on shore power you are not charging the House aux. batteries. Overcharging the house battery is the number 1 way to kill the battery, boil off the fluids and terminate the life span early. If parked on shore power for extended lengths of time, or just parked at home/storage, unless you plan to travel soon, I turn off the Aux battery to lengthen the life of the house battery.

[Wayne M]

Well, if I really want to know I can go outside at the pedestal and look at the PT-50C indicator. It will tell me how much is being drawn on each leg.

My 2008 works the same way on the EMS. Shore power, no indication of current draw. Generator, or 30/20 service, current draw is shown on the meter.

Yep! If you turn the house battery disconnect to off you will not have any items that run of of 12 volts working. Also, in my case, I will not be charging the batteries. Both the House switch and chassis switch have to be on for the converter to charge the batteries. (for my system)

[MrTransistor]

Hi All,

Issue 1: The ‘appearance’ of 50 Amp. power being disconnected when Aux. Battery disconnect is activated.

Someone mentioned the 12 Volt supply to all circuits. This is correct, no 12 Volt power to the thermostat, refrigerator, PowerLine, or anything else. The PowerLine needs 12 Volt power to energize the relays that supply the shedable loads, hence everything seems to turn off. Normally, when connected to 50 Amps., the PowerLine will indicate 50 Amps. with all load lights off and the Amp. reading off. It still needs 12 Volts to energize the relays to power all the downstream loads.

Depending on the year of manufacture and the make of the RV, the PowerLine will function slightly differently as to how it controls different items such as (in particular) the air conditioner(s). Some are designed to control the 12 Volt signals that energize AC compressor #2 while others control the power to the second compressor. The 2004 Winnie’s fall in a design notch and there seems to be no way to tell what you have other than through experimentation. This I learned the hard way, but finally, I have corrected all the factory miss wiring and everybody works as they should now.

Item 2: Why does the PowerLine not indicate Amperes when on 50 Amps.

Our RV’s are designed to work on either one or two 120 VAC legs (Lines or Poles). When on one leg, i.e. 30 Amp. (20 Amp. or 15 Amp. work the same), all the current that flows through the hot wire of the pedestal also flows through the neutral wire. Since loads can be turned on or off or shed, it is easiest to measure the current of the neutral conductor to read total current. This is what the PowerLine does. There is a simple Amp. meter designed into the control board, which feeds Amp. data to the microprocessor on the board as well as the remote display. There is a current transformer on the neutral wire in the PowerLine panel that feeds a voltage, representative of the current, to the meter.

The microprocessor measures the total current just before and just after each load is shed and stores the difference as the Amp. draw of that device. This is the value it uses to determine what to turn back on. If you hold down on the button for ‘20/30 AMP SELECT’, the PowerLine will go into a display mode that will tell you what it thinks is the load current for each device. If, when it sheds a load, that load is off at the time, it will think that that device uses ‘0’ current and as such when it restores power to that load, if it thinks it is ‘0’ Amps. when it really is ‘10’ Amps. as in the hot water heater turned on in the mean time, you may see the current display jump to over 30 Amps. until the mistake is corrected by the microprocessor and the HWH is shed again. ‘Now’ if you check the currents, the HWH will correctly display 10 Amps.

You may have figured out already why the display is blanked with connection to 50 Amps. Since the circuitry uses the neutral to sense current, when connected to 50 Amps.which is 2-pole power, not all current will always flow through the neutral wire. An example would be if both compressors are on in the AC. Compressor 1 is connected to Line 1 and Compressor 2 is connected to Line 2. Current flowing in compressor 1 would match the current in compressor 2 and no current would be flowing in the neutral other than that of the two fans. This would yield a false current reading for compressor 2 of minus 12 or so Amps. because instead of the current falling when compressor 2 is shed, the current in the neutral would increase because all of Line 1’s current would now be flowing in the neutral instead of 10 Amps. flowing in Line 2.

If this is hard to follow, then trust me, if you are connected to 50 Amp. power, there is no need to know what the Line 1 and Line 2 currents are, you will never exceed the supply.

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by Stevegd007

With the Aux power in the off position while on shore power you are not charging the House aux. batteries. Overcharging the house battery is the number 1 way to kill the battery, boil off the fluids and terminate the life span early. If parked on shore power for extended lengths of time, or just parked at home/storage, unless you plan to travel soon, I turn off the Aux battery to lengthen the life of the house battery.

The charger will not overcharge the battery. I am on my fourth class A and I never turned the aux switch off. Protection is built in and I never replaced a battery, that was overcharged and damaged, in any of the coaches. Happy travels, Joe

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by azloafer

The charger will not overcharge the battery. I am on my fourth class A and I never turned the aux switch off. Protection is built in and I never replaced a battery, that was overcharged and damaged, in any of the coaches. Happy travels, Joe

Actually it is my fifth coach if I count the '07 Simba that I dumped after a couple of months of headaches. Joe

[RickO]

Originally Posted by azloafer

The charger will not overcharge the battery. I am on my fourth class A and I never turned the aux switch off. Protection is built in and I never replaced a battery, that was overcharged and damaged, in any of the coaches. Happy travels, Joe

Hi Joe.... I'm afraid it's just not accurate to state that the charger will not overcharge the battery. I'm glad you've had good luck with your 5 coaches but my Dimensions inverter cooked two sets of my batteries within six months of taking delivery of my coach. If everything is working properly, I agree with you but that's not always the case.

Having said that, I do not turn off the disconnect switch when hooked to shore power. I started this thread because everything went dark when I threw the switch to replace my coach batteries and I thought I had a problem with my coach. Now it's looking like it's probably working as designed... although not all coaches work this way.

[azloafer]

It's amazing the things that we find out that we apparently never quite understood, even after owning a coach for a long time. An example would be my last trip out. While camping and hooked to shore power, a sudden storm came up and the wind was later reported to be 50 to 60 miles per hour. I tried, in a panic, to pull the slides in because the slide toppers were billowing and flapping like crazy. I kept pressing the "in buttons" and they would not work while hooked to the shore power. I ran out in the rain to pull the plug. Then I came in to get the slides in. Only later did I find out that I could have started the generator while plugged into shore power and the slides could have been pulled in because there is an automatic device that switches the coach to generator power even when the shore power is hooked up. I could have pulled the slides in by just starting the generator. I lost one topper when the wind ripped it off. I never knew about that "shore power generator thing." Maybe it is unique to my coach, but I'll remember it the next time! We live and learn. Happy travels, Joe

[Wayne M]

Wow Joe, that is a surprise. (well, maybe not) I have the same as you except it is the 2008 Winnebago Destination 39W. All of my EMS settings work the way the manual states they should work.

As for the slides, I can pull mine in, or out, on either 12v, generator running, or plugged into shore power. They work off of the 12v system on my coach. I always, always operate my slides with the engine running so that the alternator can assist with the voltage/current. If you have low voltage on the system batteries you will get a fault indicator and the slide will not work. I don't remember the threshold, but it is not much of of what the system should be at.

Me thinks something is wrong in Itasca land if you cannot pull your slide in when hooked to shore power. What does the manual say?

Edited:
I just looked at section 10 in the 2008 Itasca 39w manual and it is the same information that is contained in my Winne Destination 39w. You should be able to operate the slide as long as the battery has enough power.

[azloafer]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

Wow Joe, that is a surprise. (well, maybe not) I have the same as you except it is the 2008 Winnebago Destination 39W. All of my EMS settings work the way the manual states they should work.

As for the slides, I can pull mine in, or out, on either 12v, generator running, or plugged into shore power. They work off of the 12v system on my coach. I always, always operate my slides with the engine running so that the alternator can assist with the voltage/current. If you have low voltage on the system batteries you will get a fault indicator and the slide will not work. I don't remember the threshold, but it is not much of of what the system should be at.

Me thinks something is wrong in Itasca land if you cannot pull your slide in when hooked to shore power. What does the manual say?

Manual? Are we supposed to read that thing? Just kidding, I'll have to see what it says. I was in such a panic when the wind started to rock the coach and I could hear the toppers flapping and lightning and thunder that I may have done something wrong or not recall exactly what I did. When the storm started to build in the mountains I should have pulled the slides in then as a precaution. Next time I will know what to do. Joe

[jimmccreary]

Mr Transistor
Thank you for your detailed explanation of 50A service. I think I finally understand now. Appreciate your detail

jim & debbie, 04 Journey 34H, suzuki toad

[RickO]

Update....

Just got off the phone with Winnie and, as several of you have pointed out, the system is functioning as designed when throwing the "Aux Bat Disconnect" switch makes the coach go dark... even when connected to shore power.

Al told me that the Inverter/Charger feeds directly through the house batteries and that this is common on many/most of their coaches.

Thanks to all for contributing to this question. I know I've learned some things I didn't know before.

[pameridan04]

Hi RickO:

Thanks for your due diligence on this matter. I am always learning from these sessions.

Glad to know the coach is operating correctly. I keep telling my other RV buddies about this site. I don't know what I would do without you guys.

Many Thanks......

Regards Jim P.