Surge Protectors

[Saltydog44]

There was a long discussion on another forum on this topic. Several of us were told we didn't need anything other than what the mfr. had installed - in this case Entegra.

The consensus was that the issue wasn't really surge protection which does come with most coaches, but low voltage which is NOT protected by the mfr installed equipment. That's where the Progressive HWC comes in. It has already saved me once in 6 months. As best I can tell, almost everyone has added either the portable or fixed PI equipment. Low voltage can do a lot of damage and there's little warning.

Hope that makes some sense.

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by flaggship1

Hey Richard - you listening - I know you took your Power Master offline at one time - but don't recall why?? Any thoughts?

Hi Steve,

Actually, since 2010 when the VC-50 was installed I have removed the VC-50 from the circuit 3 times now at RV Parks that had high incoming voltage, 125 VAC or higher. The only reason for bypassing it was so I could sleep at night. Otherwise the High Voltage error would keep kicking it off and then back on all night.

The newer PowerMaster VC-50 units such as yours has the auto-bypass built into it such that when the incoming voltage reaches 125 VAC it will circumvent the boost circuit. Whereas with the older units such as mine you have to unplug it and bypass around it. That's one of the reasons I wired it the way I did. Unfortunately, Todd won't let me trade my old one in for a new model with the bypass feature.

There is at least one iRV2.com member who adamantly stated that he wanted his voltage booster placed AFTER the Progressive Industries HW-50C EMS unit so that if the RV did sustain a high surge HW-50C would be the sacrificial lamb. I disagree with his thinking but to each their own. It's his RV and his money.

I want the VC-50 to do its job FIRST by boosting the low voltage up which you will find is the problem in more than 80% - 90% of the RV Parks and campgrounds you will stay in today. More so in the hot summer months versus the winter ones.

The VC-50 has 3580 Joules of Surge Protection and the Progressive industries has the same 3580 Joules of Surge Protection. They both have replaceable MOV's so the only devices that are getting sacrificed are the MOV's.

If the RV were to sustain a direct lightning strike, well it really won't matter because both the VC-50 and the HW-50C will be sacrificed along with possibly many other things inside and outside of the RV.

You and I both have a great setup so don't mess with it regardless of what others say or claim. They are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. They can do whatever they want to their RV, it's THEIR choice and it's THEIR money.

You are well protected from errant shore power whatever the situation might be. AND, you will also be running your A/C's while others with only the HW-50C will be sitting in their very HOT RV's waiting for the low voltage to go back up after the high demand has passed. An then there will be the others who don't own either the VC-50 or the HW-50C who will be replacing their A/C's one day well before they should have to because of premature failure due to running them on very low voltage.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by Saltydog44

There was a long discussion on another forum on this topic. Several of us were told we didn't need anything other than what the mfr. had installed - in this case Entegra.

The consensus was that the issue wasn't really surge protection which does come with most coaches, but low voltage which is NOT protected by the mfr installed equipment. That's where the Progressive HWC comes in. It has already saved me once in 6 months. As best I can tell, almost everyone has added either the portable or fixed PI equipment. Low voltage can do a lot of damage and there's little warning.

Hope that makes some sense.

Your fortunate to have such good power available. My Hughs unit usually goes into boost mode several times a day at most parks that I have been at. I would not want to be one minute without it sitting there doing its job 24/7.
Every time the voltage drops you get extra wear and tear from excess heat buildup on any running electrical items which will accumulate until the long term damage gets to the point that you have a failure.

[NeilV]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Hi Steve,

Actually, since 2010 when the VC-50 was installed I have removed the VC-50 from the circuit 3 times now at RV Parks that had high incoming voltage, 125 VAC or higher. The only reason for bypassing it was so I could sleep at night. Otherwise the High Voltage error would keep kicking it off and then back on all night.

The newer PowerMaster VC-50 units such as yours has the auto-bypass built into it such that when the incoming voltage reaches 125 VAC it will circumvent the boost circuit. Whereas with the older units such as mine you have to unplug it and bypass around it. That's one of the reasons I wired it the way I did. Unfortunately, Todd won't let me trade my old one in for a new model with the bypass feature.

There is at least one iRV2.com member who adamantly stated that he wanted his voltage booster placed AFTER the Progressive Industries HW-50C EMS unit so that if the RV did sustain a high surge HW-50C would be the sacrificial lamb. I disagree with his thinking but to each their own. It's his RV and his money.

I want the VC-50 to do its job FIRST by boosting the low voltage up which you will find is the problem in more than 80% - 90% of the RV Parks and campgrounds you will stay in today. More so in the hot summer months versus the winter ones.

The VC-50 has 3580 Joules of Surge Protection and the Progressive industries has the same 3580 Joules of Surge Protection. They both have replaceable MOV's so the only devices that are getting sacrificed are the MOV's.

If the RV were to sustain a direct lightning strike, well it really won't matter because both the VC-50 and the HW-50C will be sacrificed along with possibly many other things inside and outside of the RV.

You and I both have a great setup so don't mess with it regardless of what others say or claim. They are entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. They can do whatever they want to their RV, it's THEIR choice and it's THEIR money.

You are well protected from errant shore power whatever the situation might be. AND, you will also be running your A/C's while others with only the HW-50C will be sitting in their very HOT RV's waiting for the low voltage to go back up after the high demand has passed. An then there will be the others who don't own either the VC-50 or the HW-50C who will be replacing their A/C's one day well before they should have to because of premature failure due to running them on very low voltage.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

So how long will you be sitting without low voltage correction while waiting for the MOV's that got sacrificed in your VC unit to get replaced? Every day, week, month it takes to get them replaced you are now sitting in a very HOT RV like those with only the surge protectors with low voltage shutoffs.

The only thing you loose by having the dedicated surge protection first is the an additional level of surge protection while awaiting replacement of its MOV's when they get tripped while having it after the Voltage Correction unit if the VC units MOV's get tripped you loose the second level of surge protection along with your voltage correction while waiting for the MOV's to get replaced in the VC unit.

I'd rather not be without the Voltage Correction unit after a surge that would cause its MOV's to require replacment and find it more reasonable to have just the Surge Protector out of service awaiting MOV replacement. What are you more willing to do without after having a surge that requires MOV replacement?

[Dr4Film]

A dropped Neutral can do as much or even more damage to your RV electrical systems as can a direct lightning hit.

Surges that come from shore power and power companies are rare and FAR less damaging than a dropped neutral or NO Neutral.

How many times since having the HW-50C installed in your RV have you had a recognizable SURGE in your shore power?

As I stated earlier, you have the right to do as you wish with your RV and the devices/components inside your RV. It's totally up to you as the owner.

I have chosen what works the BEST for me and I'm sticking with it. And I believe that Steve also has a very good understanding of the system.

For those RVer's that choose to place the voltage boost AFTER the Progressive Industries HW-50C, Go For IT!

I certainly hope that you enjoy sitting in your HOT RV's without power due to the heavy power demands during PEAK air conditioning usage. Low voltage is FAR more common than any SURGE from the power company.

BTW, I have 3580 Joules of SURGE protection regardless of whether the PowerMaster is plugged in or not. Both the Progressive Industries HW-50C and the VC-50 have 3580 Joules of SURGE protection which gives a total of 7160 Joules available for sacrificial purposes. However, if anyone has done any reading at all about how MOV's actually work, having them in series doesn't mean squat.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[NeilV]

Dr4Film - I hit the low voltage bypass on the surge protector so low voltage shutting down the surge protector and cuttion off power to the VC unit is not an issue. Even in low voltage bypasse mode it still provides protection against all other power issues.

Lets say we are ever parked next to each other and experience a surge that requires the MOV's to be replaced I will just unplug the surge protector since it is the unit closest to the power pole and plug directly into the VC unit while your VC unit will be out of service waiting for the MOV's to be replaced. I will still have low voltage protection while you will not for the time it takes to get the VC units MOV's replaced. You choice will then be during low voltage situations to sit in a hot RV or take a chance on running on the low voltage while I will still be enjoying my protected RV.

That is your choice for sure however my choice is to reduce as much as possible any chance of being without low voltage protection and I will less likely face the hot RV situation you have mentioned concern about.

My surge protection is not built into my transfer switch and even if it was I would put in exactly what I have now in the same order.

MOV's work as a valve and divert excess voltage to ground only allowing their design voltage to pass through with the SurgeGuard designed to shut down power completely if its MOV's get overloaded and fail so what is the problem with having multiple metal oxide variator type voltage regulators in series? This is done in the computer industry as SOP having a main set at the power panel and another at the feed points of the building wide uninterruptable power units with the use of work station MOV surge supressors highly encouraged.

[s1njin]

Resurrecting this thread.

I just bought a 30A Autoformer. I'm now considering where to put a SurgeGuard 34730 (portable - my electric compartment is narrow so i don't want the Autoformer and SurgeGuard making a lot of heat together). I too am considering placing it on the pedestal and letting it feed my Autoformer. Here is my rationale:

A. The Surge Guard is cheaper to replace should it take a hit
B. The Surge Guard acts as a PI EMS in that it cuts power at 102v and 132v. I'm okay with it cutting the power to the coach at 102 b/c the Autoformer can only boost 10%. 103v + 10% only gets me to 113 volts, 2 below the minimum needed for my A/C unit. So if it cuts power, the situation is beyond what my Autoformer can fix anyway.

Am I missing something?

[KoolBell]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

I was told by the salesman that my new 2014 Journey had a built in surge protector so I didn't need to transfer my hard wired one from my old coach to the new one. I called Winnebago and they also said I didn't need one either. Whats your thoughts on this?

Do what you want, but here is what happened to me; http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/elec...s-197210.html\

Look at that post, and all the pictures I took. My "built in" surge protector did not stop me from having some major repairs. I suggest you add one like I ended up adding afterwards.

[emiddleb]

KoolBell, your link doesn't work. Need to remove the slash at the end of the link.

.html not .html/

[Reyo13]

I take what saleman and even manufactures tell me with a huge grain of salt. Many don't know or out right lie. I had a hardwired Progressive surge protector (and does many other things) installed in our Reyo. Saw if anything blew it would probably be several thousand $$$$. Well worth the investment to me!

[majfrizz]

I was at the Winnebago service center last week and even asked the service advisor. he said he would if it was him. They even sold them there in their parts department and they install them. I had previously purchase a Progressive protector and had them install it for me. Just a little extra peace of mind.