Solar Power Installation

[Party Barge]

I have a new Itasca Horizon 40 Kd. I plan on adding solar panels and a new battery bank.
I have ordered 4 Kyocera 130 watt panels and a 50 watt blue sky soar boost charge controller. I plan on installing 8 six volt batteries. 4 in the existing tray and 4 more mid coach, between the frame rails, just behind the curb slide.

I would like to find the connection from the existing 10 watt panel to the house battery.

My plan is to move the connection to the chassis batteries and install the new system as the house system.

I'm presently doing some shake down runs and have not been able to get the inverter to work. It shows an over load message and I have turned off all the AC circuits and the message still appears. I have an appointment with Winnebago to deal with the inverter. I don't plan on changing anything until I get the inverter working fine.

The factory customer service told me that all the ac plugs are connected to the inverter. I have not had a chance to check them.

I'm looking for a recommendation for bolting the solar panels to the roof. I have seen some bolts with rubber collars that expand, and one solar dealer talked about some expansion type bolts that remind me of drywall hardware. I'm open to suggustions.

Party Barge

[Party Barge]

I have a new Itasca Horizon 40 Kd. I plan on adding solar panels and a new battery bank.
I have ordered 4 Kyocera 130 watt panels and a 50 watt blue sky soar boost charge controller. I plan on installing 8 six volt batteries. 4 in the existing tray and 4 more mid coach, between the frame rails, just behind the curb slide.

I would like to find the connection from the existing 10 watt panel to the house battery.

My plan is to move the connection to the chassis batteries and install the new system as the house system.

I'm presently doing some shake down runs and have not been able to get the inverter to work. It shows an over load message and I have turned off all the AC circuits and the message still appears. I have an appointment with Winnebago to deal with the inverter. I don't plan on changing anything until I get the inverter working fine.

The factory customer service told me that all the ac plugs are connected to the inverter. I have not had a chance to check them.

I'm looking for a recommendation for bolting the solar panels to the roof. I have seen some bolts with rubber collars that expand, and one solar dealer talked about some expansion type bolts that remind me of drywall hardware. I'm open to suggustions.

Party Barge

[John_Canfield]

Check out our RV Mods page at janeandjohn.org for some ideas for your rig.

I like the idea of all of that solar power

Suggest you become familiar with the Winnie wiring diagrams; having these available on-line is a huge bonus for us Winnie owners. You should discover your solar panel wiring in the 12V wiring schematics. My solar panel has a circuit breaker in the electrical basement compartment which is also near the battery solenoid. One challenge will be for you to run your upgraded solar panel wiring (you ARE going to run heaver gauge wiring aren't you?) Give Winnie a call and let them help you decide on how to run your new solar panel wiring.

Expansion bolts are gross overkill for mounting your panels - I have a 100 pound Datastorm satellite dish on top of our coach and it is simply screwed into the fiberglass/luan; there are maybe 12 or 16 #12 SS sheet metal screws holding the mounting plate to the roof (along with lots of Dicor.) We have driven the coach into a 40 mph headwind and the Datastorm is still there (and so is our roof .

For your solar panels I would use #12 SS sheet metal screws and instead of the Dicor self-leveling caulk you could consider using 3M 5200 caulk. 5200 is not just a caulk - it is a polyurethane adhesive as well. I used it for years to bed deck fittings on my sailboat - once you stick it down with 5200 you will need dynamite to separate it the parts and it is completely waterproof and can even be submerged 100% of the time (not a good idea for your coach.)

If you don't like the idea of something permanently mounted you could try 3M 4200 - it is not quite the adhesive that 5200 is but still has the waterproof properties of 5200.

For your electrical system upgrade, consider going the route I did - replace the Dimensions inverter for the pure sine wave Xantrex RS2000 and replace the house batteries with Lifeline AGMs. . I never need to worry about the AGMs gassing or adding water to them; they also accept a higher charge rate and have a lower internal resistance (they don't self-discharge as quickly as a traditional lead-acid battery.) The AGMs would really make sense if you want to add more batteries in an out of the way place.

Before you start adding a bunch of weight to the coach concentrated in a particular area you should load the coach for camping and then get a four-corner wheel weight. The results might dictate where you can safely add batteries.

[Party Barge]

Thanks for the info. I have weighted out the coach on all fours. That is one of the reasons that i'm moving some of the battary weight forward.
I noticed that the existing solar panel wire goes down through the refer vent but couldn't find it in the back panel, but I was just doing a quick look-see. I have down loaded and printed the wiring diagrams.

Party Barge

[Cruzer]

On my 2003 Suncruiser I installed two 110 watt panels with a 50 amp charge controller (just in case I wanted to add two more). I then relocated the OEM solar panel wire just as you are planning. I also added a Prosine 2500 watt inverter and two more batteries to the system.

On my Allegro Bus I mounted four 110 watt panels with the same 50 amp charge controller, replaced the Freedom 458 inverter with a Prosine 2500 plus AGS module, and swapped out the 4 flooded batteries for 6 AGM batts.

The OEM solar panel on my Suncruiser ran to the hot side of the house batteries disconnect solenoid. When the solenoid was in the disconnect position the OEM panel was still connected to the batteries. I removed the wire from there, lengthened it, and ran it to the chassis batteries. Incidentatly, the chassis batteries still will go down because the OEM solar panel really isn't worth that much as far as output goes so I wouldn't bother doing it again.

I wouldn't use threaded screws to hold down the solar panels to the roof. The Winnebago roof is very thin and I've had screws pull out and back out. I used 3/16" stainless steel rivets on mine. The advantage of rivets is that they "knot up" on the backside so they can't pull out. When it came time to remove them I simply drilled them out and put the panels on the Allegro Bus roof, although I needed longer rivets because the roof was more substantial. Naturally, caulk over everything and under the panel flanges as well to seal up any possible entry points for water.

I used #8 boat cable (similar to Romex but flexible and weather resistant) to run my solar power down to the controller. With 560 watts of PV power you'll need a #8 wire to carry it.

It sounds like you should have a nice system when you're done.

[Gene Rondenet]

I am planning on doing a similiar upgrade to my 2005 Adventurer. I am planning on using an Outback MX60 Charge Controller and their sealed inverter (more mounting options). One question I have is it possible to connect the PV panels together in series to keep the amperage down, minimize the voltage loss, and use a smaller wire size from the PV panels to the charge controller? The Outback charge controller can take up to 135 volts from the PV array and step it down to battery voltage. Battery storage on my little 33V is a whole other problem !!

Another big question I have is why John Canfield doesn't have a large solar array on his MH, or did I miss something? It seems he has every other possible upgrade.

BTW John, your upgrades make me very jealous and I am always looking forward to your upgrade exploits.

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> One question I have is it possible to connect the PV panels together in series to keep the amperage down, minimize the voltage loss, and use a smaller wire size from the PV panels to the charge controller? The Outback charge controller can take up to 135 volts from the PV array and step it down to battery voltage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Your idea has some merit - double the voltage and halve the current and use a smaller gauge wire. This really is inefficient in my mind since you are going to waste a lot of "extra" voltage at the regulator in the form of heat. Let's say you are sending down 24 volts - the regulator will regulate that 24 volt input down to 13 volts or whatever but in the process of 'losing' the extra 11 volts that will be given off as heat in the regulator

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Another big question I have is why John Canfield doesn't have a large solar array on his MH, or did I miss something? It seems he has every other possible upgrade. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Gene - I have thought about solar panels but so far we don't do much boondocking. I'm more of an RV Resort guy - to me roughing it is when the RV park doesn't have an exercise room

[MrTransistor]

Hi John,
A good down converter will take a high voltage low current source and turn it into a low voltage high current source quite efficiently. Think of your computer, 120 VAC input to the power supply, +5V at 20 to 60 Amps. or more at just one of the outputs to run the chips. I'm getting ready to check on line for information on this ˜Outback MX60 Charge Controller' and the Inverter that Gene talks about.

[MrTransistor]

Hi Gene,
I just checked the web site for the ˜Outback MX60 Charge Controller' and the Inverter. The inverter has similar specifications to the ProSine 2000 but has a higher rated charge current for 12 Volt systems and I think it is larger and weighs more. The Charge controller looks quite intriguing (although a bit pricey ) and should handle four to six 17 Volt PV arrays in series very nicely. Wiring four in series would keep the current down at the single PV value while supplying 4 times the voltage and 4 times the wattage of a single array. A good way to go, less power loss in the wiring from the PV array to the charge controller with smaller wire to boot. 6 to 8 Amps. from 100 to 125 Watt PV arrays could be handled by #10 stranded copper wire. #10 has 1 Ohm of resistance per 1000 feet of wire.

[Party Barge]

The panels that I bought are Kyocera KC130gt. They have MC connectors which plug into each other and my supplier recommended a MC cable 10AWG to run down to the controller. What I didn't consider is replacing the Demensions inverter. I'm researching it as we speak.

Batteries: I have read that some of you are using the agm type. I have seen them priced out from $185 to $250 each. A Sams club energizer 6 volt is going for about $55.00. I understand the buzz but do they deliver?

[John_Canfield]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Batteries: I have read that some of you are using the agm type. I have seen them priced out from $185 to $250 each. A Sams club energizer 6 volt is going for about $55.00. I understand the buzz but do they deliver? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We boondocked all night on our AGM house batteries and that was with an occasional shot of furnace to keep us warm. The auto gen start never needed to come on (it is programmed to start on low batteries.) It was a great investment as far as I'm concerned. I used gels on my boat a few years ago and they were faithful performers in deep discharge situations for years. AGM is the next step beyond gel technology.

I flat out do NOT like lead-acid batteries for anything except starting situations.

[Cruzer]

Ditto on the AGMs. They also take a charge faster and you can put them anywhere because they don't need venting so it's easy to add more batteries.

A note on the series versus parallel solar panels - if your system is designed for this be sure to not use automotive wiring because the insulation isn't rated for higher voltages. Be sure to use high voltage residential wiring with THHN insulation to contain the higher voltage. Also, be aware that if one solar panel fails, the whole system will go down if it's in series. If one panel starts to lose efficiency it'll act as a block to the rest of them and you'll only get as much output as the weakest link will pass. Personally, #8 low voltage wire isn't that hard to work with and it's pretty safe should something go wrong with a lower voltage.

[MrTransistor]

Hello Party Barge,
I strongly concur with John and Mark on the AGMs. I have 4 ea. 6 Volt 220 Amp./hour Lifeline GPL-4C and couldn't be more pleased with their performance. They will run the furnace all night when the temperature is zero degrees and the AGS never cycles the generator. In warmer temps., we leave the inverter on and have AC all night without putting a dent in the AGMs charge. One less thing to worry about. (see mounting picture in photo section)

[Party Barge]

I called and talked to a battary shop in Vegas and they told me that they don't carry the agm battaries because they can't take the heat. I see you from Albuquerque, has it ever been an issue?

[MrTransistor]

Hi Party Barge,

Been all over NM, through AZ, CA, NV, Utah, and CO as well as all over the gulf coast and up the east coast. Temps. of at least 110 with no problems at all. The AGM batteries are the only Lead Acid batteries approved for aircraft use and the Military is replacing their NiCads with them. That I am aware of, there is nothing in the AGM technology that would make them any more of less sensitive to heat. They basically react to temperature the same way as flooded start or deep cycle batteries do. When the temperature goes down, their Amp./Hour capacity goes down, when the temperature goes way up, the cycle life suffers.

I'd find another battery supplier if that's the advice your getting from the shop in Vegas. Check the web sites for Concorde, it has the whole story. Other manufacturers are also getting into the AGM technology and that helps us as far as price/product competition.

http://www.concordebattery.com/

[Party Barge]

I just orded up some lifeline 6 volts from a store in calif for $184. Did you say you running 6 or 12 volt battaries?

[Party Barge]

I see from your prior post that you have 6 volts. I see from you photo that you are using the blue sky 50, thats what I have comming. How do you like it?

[MrTransistor]

Hi Party Barge,

Blue sky 50?

Batteries are Lifeline GPL-4C 6 Volt 220 Amp./Hour. Made by Concorde.

[Mac and Chris]

Love our AGM's. We also have the GPL-4C 6 volts from Concorde. A bank of 4.

Currently in Las Vegas, and it was about 105 today. Our temp-compensated charge controller topped them off at about 13.85 volts. You need to avoid "cooking" them when the temps are high. The battery dealer probably was referring to actual golf cart use where the chargers are not temperature compensated.

Mac

[Party Barge]

After looking at different posts and reading more info. I pulled up the contorler manual on the web and I think I need to add the battry temp cable to my system help monitor the charge rate in our desert heat.