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Old 11-26-2018, 11:21 AM   #21
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I see a lot of comments dismissing the house batteries WBGO installs in it's Class A RVs. They are NAPA 9831DT AGMs. And are marked as "Commercial" on the side. Looking at the NAPA site they sell for over $280 each and are made by DEKA Battery company. Which are supposed to be pretty good.

So far.... 18-months is how far... mine have seemed pretty good. Admittedly, they have not been stressed. Though one time when new the RV went to storage for 2-weeks without the 12v power being turned off and they got very low - 12.1 volts.

So, why are these mentioned as JUNK on many of the RV websites? They seem like true deep cycle 12v AGM batteries that are made well by a well-respected manufacturer. What I'm I missing?
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:10 PM   #22
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You have a 2017 MH, I don't know when Winnebago started installing the batteries you mention but I'd venture to say that the vast majority of rigs on the road have 12V marine hybrid batteries.

I don't think anyone intends to lump true deep cycle 12V batteries into their negative comments, which is exactly why I mentioned them in post #20.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:55 PM   #23
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Then the big question is what size battery will fit in the Minnie Winnie battery box? What type of batteries is used for house batteries? Can true AGM's be used inside the coach?
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:47 PM   #24
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Having just installed an inverter and battery in our preowned 2014 Sunstar...


Seriously look at Battle Born Li batteries. They are pricey, ($950 FOR 100ah 12vdc) but... one 100AH battery weighs about 1/5 of the standard house batteries (29 lbs),
the Battle Borns have an internal battery management system,
they have been bench tested to 3000-5000 cycles,
they can be discharged way deeper than the standard house batteries,
no water needed, and no acid/hydrogen fumes

and, the new ones (mine was one of the first) have a 10 year warranty. I figure I've spent that much over 10 or so years on flooded batteries that got heavy use.



And I added a Victron battery monitor, and 2kW Xantrex sine wave inverter. 400 watts of solar is next year. And maybe a second BattleBorn.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:42 PM   #25
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I just went back and reread the OP. I would also rethink the "whole house" inverter. There are too many parasitic, phantom, and competing loads IMO for that. Some of the other posters here are spot on with items like trying to run the A/C with batteries. I considered what we really might need to run on the inverter, and came down to:


The 2 outlet circuits, and the microwave.


You don't want the DC converter running on the inverter (that's an inefficient power loop at best), nor the fridge. Ours switches to AC from gas if AC is present, unless we tell it differently.


And certainly not the air conditioner...


I disconnected the 2 outlet circuits and the microwave from the breaker panel, used the microwave breaker to feed the inverter/charger/ and built my own breaker panel in a plastic electrical box with 3 DIN rail breakers, and 2 bus bars.


Whole house inverter sounds easy, but, to me, it's fraught with issues and problems.
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:10 PM   #26
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It sounds like Winnebago currently uses decent AGM batteries, it is the non-AGM flooded lead-acid batteries that they use on many of their RVs that are just OK. They are NAPA RV/Marine dual purpose and not true Deep Cycle batteries. Their MSRP at NAPA auto parts stores is only $ 100. OK for general RV use but not OK for those of us who boondock.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:36 AM   #27
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best feature, greatest weakness

You missed the very best feature. BB do not have to be fully recharged each and every cycle.


The worse weakness is their inability to be charged below -20 C (-4 f).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOweather View Post
Having just installed an inverter and battery in our preowned 2014 Sunstar...


Seriously look at Battle Born Li batteries. They are pricey, ($950 FOR 100ah 12vdc) but... one 100AH battery weighs about 1/5 of the standard house batteries (29 lbs),
the Battle Borns have an internal battery management system,
they have been bench tested to 3000-5000 cycles,
they can be discharged way deeper than the standard house batteries,
no water needed, and no acid/hydrogen fumes

and, the new ones (mine was one of the first) have a 10 year warranty. I figure I've spent that much over 10 or so years on flooded batteries that got heavy use.



And I added a Victron battery monitor, and 2kW Xantrex sine wave inverter. 400 watts of solar is next year. And maybe a second BattleBorn.
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:05 PM   #28
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Love all this information! Might have to settle on a inverter to handle maybe one side or the front or back only? So complicated for someone who is not electrically minded like myself
Paid for my son to go to Bradley University to become a Engineer......Civil, not electrical .......darn it!
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Old 12-02-2018, 05:14 PM   #29
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You are off to a good start, but, lead acid batteries are a poor choice for occasional short charge cycles as their performance will suffer over time. Seriously look into using lithium batteries, maybe 4 times the cost but more than twice the performance, one half the weight and more than 3 times the life expectancy with a much better storage capacity in the later years. Better yet, lithium batteries take much less time to charge (a few hours) and their health doesn't suffer when partially charged. Lead acid batteries resist being fully charged and can take 12 or more hours to get there.

In summary, bite the bullet and go lithium and make sure they have built-in power protection to prevent overcharging and over depletion. Other devices that you will need is a good battery monitor (look into Victron), not the junk that is typically provided, and a power converter / charger that is designed for and will properly handle lithium batteries.

One more note: As for not charging lithium batteries in below freezing temperatures you can insulate your battery box, eliminate the ventilation holes that are there for the original wet cell lead acid batteries. To be really safe, install a remote thermometer in the battery well and a small DC heater pad. If you go with a Victron battery monitor, BMV-712, you can get an optional temperature monitor for it that will indicate temperature of the battery well and sound an alarm if the temperature gets too low.

Best wishes and good luck.
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:04 PM   #30
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I haven't taken the time to read all replies so perhaps I'll be duplicating others. The best advice I can give is to learn from others. The best place to do that is at the Senator Wash Long Term Visitor Area about 20 miles north of Yuma Arizona. I suggest you not spend a penny on solar until visiting that location. There is a source of solar parts and installation at that location. 400 watts will do what you have described. I would go with four six volt batteries rather than the two AGM. No need for more than 2000 watt inverter because your two AGM or four six volt batteries won't support 2800 watts for very long. You don't need an auto start generator to heat your dogs because you aren't going to heat with electricity. You will use a stand alone propane heater which requires no power. They are thermostat controlled. You will use your generator for power when there is no sun or you want to run your air conditioning or microwave. I have been solar powered since 2009 and have this set up. The four batteries will last all night and be at about 70% or better in the morning and fully charged before noon (if you are parked in the Arizona winter with all panels tipped and pointed at the southern sky). No need for tipping from about mid-March to October. Good luck.
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:15 PM   #31
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Does anyone have recommendations for a good solar installer in the Goodyear, AZ area?
Yes. Call Ron at 623-842-1265 for the install (he's in Glendale) and if you don't have the solar equipment yet call (480) 443-8520 and they will work out a system based on your needs and ship it over to Ron for installation.
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:27 PM   #32
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I did not see the OP mention furnace use either way. If the OP will be camping in cooler areas they will likely want/need to run their furnace. May or may not have a catalytic type propane indoor heater for some of their heating needs. As most of us understand the furnace fan is one of the largest 12 volt users in most RVs and its potential impact on their energy budget must be considered.

On our 32ft Excel 5th I installed three 350 watt panels that has provided 100% of our 12 volt power for about a year now. The converter breakers have been off this entire time. Have four 6 volt GC batteries with 460AHr capacity. Even in Alaska this summer the batteries were at 100% charge (Bogart 2030 monitor) by about 9:00-10:00am every day after all night furnace use. A good solar system will achieve 100% charge opposed to say 90 to 95%.

On our Miinnie 22R with very limited roof space I'm planning on three 180 watt Grape Solar panels and a Morningstar MPPT controller. Already have a Bogart 2030 installed and two 6 volt 230 AHr GC batteries.

IMO- the first step in designing a solar system is to install a battery monitor, like a Bogart 2030, and develop a detailed energy budget for every 12 volt device on your rig. There are plenty of threads about this. This way you will have a very good idea of much solar and battery capacity you really need as opposed to guesses and other people's ideas. Everybody uses their RV differently and their 12 volt power needs can vary considerably.

I have no opinion for installers as I do my own work. Some of the above links and other posts make very good points. Just try to understand the difference between what a good solar install looks like vs a poorly designed/installed system. I've seen plenty of "pro installers" do a job that barley works. Buyer be ware!
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Old 12-02-2018, 07:43 PM   #33
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My suggestion is 4 AGM 6 v golf carts in series parallel. The Magnum 2000 watt PSW inverter has probably the best design and experience of the bunch. Interfaces with AGS, remote control and solar.

Also remember that the generators don't run when down XX amount of fuel in the tank. The pickups are so that there is at least 1/4 tank and you can get to a fuel station to fill up the tank. So having a AGS, with not enough fuel--is not going to work.

I have experimented with the Battle Born LiFe PO4 batteries on my boat--where weight is more critical than in the RV--when it came to the RV--I went with AGM again as I have for the recent years. Charging profile for the Li batteries will be somewhat different than the AGM or flooded lead acid. I feel that prices will be down, and technology will improve further in the next few years.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:58 PM   #34
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For 12 years we have had 3 -100 watt panels and for 11 years 4-6v Life Line batteries installed by AM Solar in Springfield, OR. Just a few months ago the original batteries were replaced by AM Solar. There is a lot of information on their website, amsolar.com, and their work can certainly be trusted.

We love the system and it has given us many opportunities to camp when boon docking was the only option, and when it was our choice to do so.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:12 AM   #35
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You missed the very best feature. BB do not have to be fully recharged each and every cycle.


The worse weakness is their inability to be charged below -20 C (-4 f).
Note: Battle Born's website says no charging below 25 f or another words below freezing.

NOTE: The temperature for charging Lithium batteries is the temperature of the battery NOT the air temperature. Any good BMS for the lithium battery includes the battery temperature.

So as long as you have the batteries in an enclosure you can charge as long as the batteries are above freezing. The batteries produce some heat while charging and discharging so that helps keep the temp above freezing.
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:01 AM   #36
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Great suggestions above.

Addition of 480W "GoPower Elite" solar 2 years ago to our 2008 WBGO 29R is one of the additions we've made. Definitely consider options to the marine/deep cycle batteries. I was able to put 4 6v below the steps in place of the 1 chassis and 2 coach batteries as OEM. Go with 3 larger 160W+ panels over the smaller 100W. An automatic switch (shore vs. generator vs. solar) is a must for convenience. 2000 PSW inverter is plenty for short microwave and coffee maker plus power to all outlets. Your newer coach will likely have LEDs. Nice thing about GoPower controller is that it will charge both coach and chassis batteries with solar. I've not done the automatic gen start for low battery or AC, so can't comment on that setup. Here's a diagram for our setup:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...picture686.png
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:41 AM   #37
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Retirement Gift

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Hi all,
New at this as we will buying our retirement gift to us when the wife finally calls it a day.
We want to do mostly boondocking and avoid crowded CG's like the plague.
Probably going to be either a 26' or a 31' Minnie.
Solar will be a large part of our experience.
To start with I'm thinking 4 panels on the roof for aprox 400 watts. Two 12volt AGM's, a 2800 or 3000 watt pure sine whole house inverter. We will have to have a auto gen control as we will have two Golden Retrievers with us and their safety (temp) is mandatory.
I have no problem having to fire up the gen a couple of hrs every day (or night) to stay "charged up" if needed. Our major uses will be chargeing computers, large TV, coffee pot, normal lighting etc
Am I thinking along the right path?
Anything that gets done will have to be hired out as I'm disabled.
Hey Ret.LEO
We just did what you are starting- after a ~2 year journey of evaluating and discovery we bought our “retirement gift to ourselves “ last March: a Winnebago Navion (same as the “View”) 24D - the “24 series” are all 25’ 11” long. The huge benefit from the 24D is the LARGE living space afforded by the Murphy bed. I would think with your 2 dogs that this extra space would be VERY NICE. You need to check it out if you haven’t as yet.
Please note that the “24 series” already comes with two 100W solar panels and the inverter, has room and pre-wired connections to add a third on top (permanent) plus a pre-wired junction box to add another portable solar panel (we don’t do much “dry camping”, and find that the two it came with are plenty). Also note that the “24 series” already has all LED lighting, and the coach batteries are stored “externally” (under the top entrance step, but sealed off from the cabin and open to the air underneath). No need to be concerned about AC while driving as there is plenty of AC that comes from the coach AC system (we had 4 adults and 4 kids in a long trek during summer and never needed the cabin AC while driving). While camping we usually have shore power so you don’t need to run the generator for the AC; also, we have found that the vent fan with open windows keeps the RV pleasant (unless in a hot desert place...but perhaps you should also consider that when camping during the day we are mostly out and about walking/exploring/ lounging, so I would imagine your dogs would also be with you. FYI, if you are planning to do a lot of dry camping, you will likely be in an isolated area where you can run your generator at will. Also: you should consider the option of a diesel fuel generator if you plan to use the generator a lot (adds ~$5000 to the price tag). We love the Navion/View as the shorter length and V6 diesel make parking & driving so much more easy. Let me know if you want any more tips...we’ve learned a lot along the way.
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Old 12-06-2018, 05:12 AM   #38
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My suggestion is 4 AGM 6 v golf carts in series parallel. The Magnum 2000 watt PSW inverter has probably the best design and experience of the bunch. Interfaces with AGS, remote control and solar.

Also remember that the generators don't run when down XX amount of fuel in the tank. The pickups are so that there is at least 1/4 tank and you can get to a fuel station to fill up the tank. So having a AGS, with not enough fuel--is not going to work.

I have experimented with the Battle Born LiFe PO4 batteries on my boat--where weight is more critical than in the RV--when it came to the RV--I went with AGM again as I have for the recent years. Charging profile for the Li batteries will be somewhat different than the AGM or flooded lead acid. I feel that prices will be down, and technology will improve further in the next few years.
Good point, fortunatley I am paranoid about gas. I always keep the tank in any vehicle at least 1/2 full. Half full is getting close to empty in my mind.
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