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Old 01-13-2015, 12:31 PM   #1
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Inverter/Charger/Converter????

Spent few hours looking over lots of threads but have aI have what seems like a simple but stupid question. Having some battery issues (2004 class C Minnie) I'm thinking of switching to AGM batteries and have viewed lots of threads on AGMS and charging. I went through my manual closely as I wanted to find out what kind of charger I have and then became confused. Manual says the "power converter" changes 110v to 12 v when plugged in or on generator. Then in another section manual says the "converter charges coach batteries" when connected to 110vs and "Converter will automatically sense battery condition". In my materials I found manual for Dimensions WIN-12/300 inverter. Could not find any information on a converter or a charger?

So I know I have an inverter and I think I know where it is in the coach. But where is the charger and or converter? Or is it all one in the same?
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:40 PM   #2
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Probably someone from your forum can answer your question with specifics, but in general they make chargers to top off the batteries, inverters to change 12v to 120v so you can run appliances and inverter/chargers to do either, depending on whether you are on shore power or you are running off the batteries.
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Old 01-13-2015, 03:37 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by chigginsct View Post
Spent few hours looking over lots of threads but have aI have what seems like a simple but stupid question. Having some battery issues (2004 class C Minnie) I'm thinking of switching to AGM batteries and have viewed lots of threads on AGMS and charging. I went through my manual closely as I wanted to find out what kind of charger I have and then became confused. Manual says the "power converter" changes 110v to 12 v when plugged in or on generator. Then in another section manual says the "converter charges coach batteries" when connected to 110vs and "Converter will automatically sense battery condition". In my materials I found manual for Dimensions WIN-12/300 inverter. Could not find any information on a converter or a charger?

So I know I have an inverter and I think I know where it is in the coach. But where is the charger and or converter? Or is it all one in the same?
In your case the converter/charger and the inverter are 2 different things. The converter/charger supplies 12 volts to the lighting system and all other appliances (like the furnace, water pump, vent fans, etc.) when the motorhome is plugged into shore power. It also charges the house batteries when plugged into shore power.

It's generally a silver box about 10" x 12" X 6" high. I'm not sure where yours is located. It's usually some where in the kitchen. In our Adventurer it was beneath the drawer under the stove.

The inverter changes the 12v DC power from the house batteries to 110 v AC power. It's in a cabinet with the switching control center next to the TV.
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_145662.pdf

It's used to power the TV and other 110 volt entertainment systems when disconnected from shore power. It's usually connected to only 1 or 2 outlets. When attached to shore power system bypasses the inverter and uses shore power. When the inverter is turned on and you're not connected to shore power the system recognizes the situation and powers the outlet(s). Its sole function is to change DC to AC. It's only 300 watts so about all it can power is the television.
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Old 01-13-2015, 04:31 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by chigginsct View Post
Spent few hours looking over lots of threads but have aI have what seems like a simple but stupid question. Having some battery issues (2004 class C Minnie) I'm thinking of switching to AGM batteries and have viewed lots of threads on AGMS and charging. I went through my manual closely as I wanted to find out what kind of charger I have and then became confused. Manual says the "power converter" changes 110v to 12 v when plugged in or on generator. Then in another section manual says the "converter charges coach batteries" when connected to 110vs and "Converter will automatically sense battery condition". In my materials I found manual for Dimensions WIN-12/300 inverter. Could not find any information on a converter or a charger?

So I know I have an inverter and I think I know where it is in the coach. But where is the charger and or converter? Or is it all one in the same?
Chris,
Hikerdogs gave you pretty accurate answers. I too do not know your model/year coach. But, based on the numbers in your model number of your inverter, it sounds like it's a very small inverter, about 300 watts worth. That normally is quite enough to power up the TV and VCR/DVD player but, not much else.

In the scheme of things, yes, the "Converter" does change 110VAC to 12VDC and, in many cases, it does also charge the house battery(ies). Some of them are "smarter" than others. In that, they will sense the battery(ies) condition and, will taper off the charge as they ascend to a full charge state.

Now Inverters or, should I say, Inverter/Chargers are normally opposite. They "invert" 12VDC to 110VAC and, come in all kinds of sizes. The small ones, quite likely like the one you have, is really only to power up the small loads on coaches like yours. The larger ones, as in, say, 2000 watts and above, are designed to handle the heavier loads like, multiple outlets, microwave ovens, hair dryers, TVs and other appliances, in many cases, all at once.

But, in order for those larger Inverters to handle that kind of load, you have to have the battery bank power to supply them. That is, at a minimum, at least (2) 12V Marine RV Deep Cycle (more is better) or, in many cases, (4) 6V Golf cart style Deep Cycle batteries. It takes a lot of juice to power up one of those larger Inverters.

As stated, many are "Inverter/Chargers" too. They will handle re-instating a charge to those large battery banks utilizing a multi-step process. In short, heavy, medium and trickle charging is accomplished when those coaches that have those, are plugged into shore power. It can be done with a generator but, that genny has to run a long period of time to bring them back up to full charge if, the house batteries have been depleted to a low state.

Anyway, hope this wasn't too long but, just trying to assist you in understanding what you may, or, may not have and, how and when it works. As to where your "Converter" is located, not a clue for your coach. In our older '99 Fleetwood Bounder Class A Gas, it was in a storage compartment outside the coach.

I'd simply say, if you don't get good accurate info from someone on here that has your same coach, to start digging around and, open things up, look under/in cabinets, under/over fridges, anywhere. These manufacturers change these things from year to year. Good luck.
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Old 01-13-2015, 09:16 PM   #5
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chigginsct your converter/charger is part of the control center (where the 110 VAC breaker are) and is attached to the back of the unit. It is more than likely a single stage charger which will over time over heat and boil the water out of the batteries if shore power is left plugged in.
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Old 01-14-2015, 04:47 AM   #6
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Winter maintenance charging

I have a 2013 Winnie Adventurer 35 U. It is in heated storage for the winter. I have it plugged in to maintain the batteries on the house. The chassis battery of course went down in just a few weeks. I just ordered a maintenance charger for keeping the chassis battery up to spec. Should I order a separate one for the house batteries? So far there is no sign of boiling the batteries and electrolytes are good. If I do install a separate house battery charger is there a method to disconnect from the built in charger or do I need to? Thanks.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:07 AM   #7
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A quick trip to the Dimensions web page finds that the 12/300N is a True Sine Wave inverter combined with a up to 105 amp Charger modle, SO it is both your INverter (And it appears a darn good one) and converter, and like most all converter in an inverter... Also a darn good one.

I did not read far enough to find if it was compatible with AGM's but most good 3-stage converters programmed for flooded wet cells are ok for AGM's as well.. YOu may want to crank up the battery size or max amps if it is adjustable. (Set it all the way up).

NOTE: AGM batteries are very good when you have mounting issues, and may have a very slight advantage in some other areas, but there is not enough advantage to justify the cost.

And most of those advantages are shared by Maintence Free (Wet cell technology) as well.
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:57 AM   #8
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wa8yxm, to OP's inverter is a 12/300N which is only a 300 watt inverter, I think you saw the spec's for the 12/3000N which is a much bigger unit.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:10 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by michealwhela View Post
I have a 2013 Winnie Adventurer 35 U. It is in heated storage for the winter. I have it plugged in to maintain the batteries on the house. The chassis battery of course went down in just a few weeks. I just ordered a maintenance charger for keeping the chassis battery up to spec. Should I order a separate one for the house batteries? So far there is no sign of boiling the batteries and electrolytes are good. If I do install a separate house battery charger is there a method to disconnect from the built in charger or do I need to? Thanks.

You shouldn't be having a problem with either the house or chassis batteries going dead unless there's a problem with the built in battery maintenance system.

We also have a 2013 Adventurer. It's equipped with a Precisions Circuit brand battery isolator system. It should be monitoring both the house and chassis batteries and turning on the charger as needed to keep them fully charged. The Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager is explained in section 6 of your supplemental manual.

While adding a supplemental charger will certainly work the function is already built into your coach.
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Hikerdogs View Post
You shouldn't be having a problem with either the house or chassis batteries going dead unless there's a problem with the built in battery maintenance system.

We also have a 2013 Adventurer. It's equipped with a Precisions Circuit brand battery isolator system. It should be monitoring both the house and chassis batteries and turning on the charger as needed to keep them fully charged. The Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager is explained in section 6 of your supplemental manual.

While adding a supplemental charger will certainly work the function is already built into your coach.
Thanks for the help. I had fat fingers when I typed. We have a 2003 not a 2013, sorry for the mistake.
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:41 AM   #11
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In my first post I accidentally posted I had a 2013, mine is a 2003, here it is again.

I have a 2003 Winnie Adventurer 35 U. It is in heated storage for the winter. I have it plugged in to maintain the batteries on the house. The chassis battery of course went down in just a few weeks. I just ordered a maintenance charger for keeping the chassis battery up to spec. Should I order a separate one for the house batteries? So far there is no sign of boiling the batteries and electrolytes are good. If I do install a separate house battery charger is there a method to disconnect from the built in charger or do I need to? Thanks
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Old 01-14-2015, 10:46 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by chigginsct View Post
Spent few hours looking over lots of threads but have aI have what seems like a simple but stupid question. Having some battery issues (2004 class C Minnie) I'm thinking of switching to AGM batteries and have viewed lots of threads on AGMS and charging. I went through my manual closely as I wanted to find out what kind of charger I have and then became confused. Manual says the "power converter" changes 110v to 12 v when plugged in or on generator. Then in another section manual says the "converter charges coach batteries" when connected to 110vs and "Converter will automatically sense battery condition". In my materials I found manual for Dimensions WIN-12/300 inverter. Could not find any information on a converter or a charger?

So I know I have an inverter and I think I know where it is in the coach. But where is the charger and or converter? Or is it all one in the same?
Well Gang,
As usual, I'm always trying to learn on these beasts. Well, the OP states he's got a small Class C and, his manual states that he has a "Power Converter. And, that he also read that his "Power converter" charges the coach or, house batteries. He also states that one of his manuals is for the Dimensions WIN-12/300 Inverter.

Well, first off, I too took a trip to the Dimensions site, in fact there's at least two Dimensions sites to look things up. And, unless I'm not on the right "Dimensions" information site, I cannot find ANY info on the 12/300N Inverter. The smallest I see listed is the "12/400N" Inverter. I even typed in the search block for the 12/300N and, it came back as, "No such information is found for the 12/300N.

But, if that's the unit he has, then that's what it is. But, as I see what he's writing and relaying in information here, he is having "battery issues". Well, what does that mean EXACTLY? Are you not getting a charge to your house batteries while being plugged in? Are they going dead rapidly as you dry camp? Is the voltage low? Have you checked your voltage at the posts of the coach batteries while the coach is plugged in? If so, what is it? Could the battery "issues" pertain to the chassis batteries? If so, what kind of issues, going dead while in storage, again while being plugged in? What?


And, one more thing, have you checked both your house and chassis batteries while the engine is running, with a volt-ohm meter? If so, what kind of reading did you get? This is only to see that you are getting a proper charge to both sets while driving down the road.

In my opinion here, we need to know maybe a bit more particular info that pertains to his EXACT coach, so we can accurately give some accurate help. We need to know his exact converter or, converter charger since, based on his statement, he's only got a 300W small inverter.
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:48 AM   #13
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Agree with FIRE UP what is the battery issue. Also below is the link to the OP's Dimensions WIN-12/300 inverter manual.
http://dimensions.sensata.com/sites/...als/121539.pdf
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:10 PM   #14
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michealwhela if you are not seeing any issues with the chassis battery's I would not worry about them just check them regularly.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:12 PM   #15
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FWIW It seems the inverter is only 300 W for the TV and stereo. The converter is unknown but probably single stage. At least that is what I would assume until proven otherwise. A single stage converter charger is not a good mix with AGM batteries. That would have me looking at a new coverter charger as well as batteries. All in all a pricey answer that will not work much better than what it there for casual use. Assuming that the 2007 batteries have sufficiently deteriorated to need replacement I would go with flooded cells for another 7 years. A lot cheaper. YMMV.
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Old 01-14-2015, 12:59 PM   #16
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Inverter/Charger

Thanks all for as usual a ton of info. I know now that my inverter is attached to the entertainment system next to my TV over the cab. The charger is located behind the fuse panel under the stove/oven cabinet next to entry stairs.
I have a 2004 28 foot Minnie Winnie (class C) - Ford E450 chassis - model 427p. Yes the inverter is small as it only powers the entertainment system and a 110 outlet. Yes it is a 12/300 inverter and I have that manual. I will look at the charger and see what it is and what options I have.

With that said my 2 12v Interstate Marine batteries- not true deep cycle - that came with the used coach are probably 4-5 yrs old based on the stamp on the batteries. Chassis battery is probably much older possible original but doubt that but it is a motorcraft battery. Having issues with both and took them to local battery dealer/tire shop and they tested and said charge was good but the tester they used said it is time to replace. Don't know about their testing device.

During past summer the house batteries seemed to run down rather quickly almost overnight with virtually no use of anything other than some lights. Chassis battery seems to run down after several days in camp. So I am looking into replacements for all three right now. I plan to take coach to authorized dealer in spring and make sure all is OK before I put good batteries in only to fail again. But given test results and age of my batteries I am hoping that is all I have to worry about. I will also invest in a battery tender for long term storage.

No I have not tested batteries in various states as suggested as coach is under 3 feet of snow right now and batteries are pulled for the winter and more importantly I am not electric savvy.
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Old 01-14-2015, 02:59 PM   #17
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What size are the house batteries? In many of the older coaches they were group 27's which aren't very powerful. If you decide to replace them see if either group 29 or group 31 batteries will fit. They're much more powerful and not all that much more money.

If you compare the group 29 and 31 wet cells to the AGM's I think you'll find they're more powerful and will last a minimum of 5 or 6 years. The group 29's in our 2001 Adventurer lasted 8 years, and that was with the original single stage charger.

Many people swear by AGM's and multiple stage chargers. We've never had poor performance from the wet cells and single stage charger. As I see it you can buy a couple sets of wet cell batteries for the cost of a set of AGM's. Then there's the charger that's needed to keep them going. A top of the line wet cell group 31 battery generally sells for $125.00 to $150.00. The same size top of the line AGM sells for around 275.00.

In all likelihood you'll get 6 years out of a set of wet cells. You'll need to get at least double that out of a set of AGM's to make them cost effective
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:23 AM   #18
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Agree with upsizing if you can as long as you are planning on new.

FWIW your battery capacity does not sound all that out of line. If the chassis battery will last a couple of weeks in storage it's normal. If the house batteries keep your lights on, the furnace at night, the TV for a couple of hours and the water running that is about it. The designers seem to assume you are moving every day or you will run the generator for several hours to recharge if you are camping. Battery chemistry determines the charge time assuming the charger is big enough. 4 hours continuous seems to be about the recommended time to fully charge them.

You can do a lot to manage battery charge by not opening the cab doors while parked if that kicks on the marker lights and other loads. You can also put a battery minder on the chassis battery plugged into the House AC so that when you run the generator it also tops off the chassis battery. If we are dry camping I like to start the generator when I get up as the house batteries will be at their best for starting. Run for a half hour or so to put back the charge used to start the generator and AC for the microwave or toaster and hot water heater. That is about a quart of gas on an Onan 4000 so easier and maybe cheaper than the propane for the water as well as the busy time for the refrigerator, water pump, etc. If we are not moving we coast through the day then start the generator before dinner to hit the heavy loads then and build up to around 90% again by running ~ 3 hrs. That gets us through the night unless it's really cold and we are running the furnace a lot. If the house gets too low to start the generator then start the main engine and use the boost switch to supply power to start the generator and run for a couple of hours to put everything back up enough to function well. You can shut the main engine down once the AC power comes on line assuming you have a way to charge the chassis battery from the AC. ;-)

I hope this helps set your expectations. If mine are out of line somebody will probably point it out. ;-))
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Old 01-15-2015, 03:31 PM   #19
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wa8yxm, to OP's inverter is a 12/300N which is only a 300 watt inverter, I think you saw the spec's for the 12/3000N which is a much bigger unit.
That is possible, however save for the size, the comments still apply, It is a very good inverter and very likey the converter as well, Only not likely good for 100 amps.
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Old 01-16-2015, 07:23 AM   #20
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That is possible, however save for the size, the comments still apply, It is a very good inverter and very likey the converter as well, Only not likely good for 100 amps.
Probably not. A small converter is around 60 A. That's twice the capacity of the inverter. That's aside from the posting of the inverter spec. ;-)

I wonder if anyone is putting Inverter/Converter setups in anything that does not have at least 4 house batteries. There is not enough current capacity to run a 2000 W Inverter on one or two common sized batteries. No point in making a combo unit much smaller as it is cheaper to do them separately and size the inverter to only do the TV if needed. There are now flat panels running off 12 VDC.
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