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Old 01-04-2017, 09:15 AM   #1
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House batteries 07 Vectra???

hi, just purchased 07 Vectra Td and need to replace the 3 house batteries; not sure what to buy? 12 volt deep cycle but the price varies widely? we dont dry camp very often so any ideas? Not sure I understand the AH/ Amp hours?Thanks and I hope I'm doing this correctly as this is my first post.
Thanks Perry
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:59 AM   #2
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Hey Perry - Welcome to the IRV2 gang!!! Suspect other Vectra owners will give you input on what has worked well for them in their coaches.

Batteries are not a complicated part of the coach, once you get a few basics under your belt.

-12V House batteries are just that 12V
-6V House batteries are combined to produce 12V
-Wet Cell, are just that, cells with water in them. That then need to be checked from time to time. Some versions of Wet Cell are Maintenance Free, and require less frequent checking.
-Wet Cell batteries will outgas while being charged. This is a gaseous escape, that needs to be checked a few times a year, with usually once a year maintenance to clean the batteries, posts, cables.
-AGM batteries, are a wet battery too, but the 'wet' is absorbed in a mat material. They usually charge a bit faster, and require from zero to little maintenance. And they cost more too.

For house applications, you want to get Deep Cycle batteries.

Most use the spec for Capacity Hours 20 rating, when comparing batteries. Generally, the higher the number, the better the battery and longer usage of power for the house systems in the coach.

The difference between 6V and 12V is you can multiple the 12V 20hr AH rating by the number of batteries. (So X's 4 20HR 150AH 12V batteries, would give you a House Bank of 600AH) On 6V, paired to give you 12V, you need to divide this by 2. (So X's 4 20HR 150AH 6V batteries, would give you a House bank of 300AH).

Since you do not boon dock, where many of us spend lots of coin for battery capacity, as well as solar panel systems to recharge them, you really just need to decide one thing.

"Is the ease of maintenance of AGM, important enough to you to spend the extra money?" If so, go buy some AGM (Fullriver, Lifeline, etc.). If not, then go buy some wet cells (Trojans, Costco/Sam's Eveready, Interstate).

If you have 3 12V 8D's, you could by either of these in the same 12V size. Or if you wanted to, you could buy X's 6 6V GC2 (Golf Cart) batteries, with added cabling required to set them up to produce the same as 3 12V.

The 6V GC2 Wet Cell batteries at Costco/Walmart/Sam's are very popular, and probably your lowest overall cost going forward. (One time cost to convert to the X's 6 configuration.) Also respected, are the Trojan T105 6V GC2 batteries, which cost more.

And as I said, I bet other owners of your rig will chime in with what works well for them.

No right or wrong, just choices based upon what is important to you as an owner as far as usage is concerned!

Best of luck to you, and again, welcome to the gang!!! Travel safe, have fun,
Smitty
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:01 AM   #3
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If not dry camping, get 3 Wal-Mart GP 27 RV/Marine batteries. Maybe 2 will do.

If your looking for more then 1 or 2 nights, then shop for " Deep Cycle " batteries.

More AH = more time before recharging.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:27 AM   #4
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thanks, will it make any difference considering we have a residential refrigerator?
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:32 AM   #5
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final questions; does the group size make a difference and what does it mean?
thanks again,
Perry
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:41 AM   #6
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Group size is the industries way of listing the physical size of the battery.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:56 AM   #7
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thanks everyone; was able to check my batteries today and find out that the 2 chassis batteries are the same as the 3 house batteries. All 5 are deep cycle group 27dc from Costco. The chassis batteries are fine but really confused now as I thought the chassis batteries are suppose to be different than the house batteries? Should I just replace the house batteries (costco has them for 80 bucks) and move on?
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Old 01-05-2017, 12:05 PM   #8
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thanks everyone; was able to check my batteries today and find out that the 2 chassis batteries are the same as the 3 house batteries. All 5 are deep cycle group 27dc from Costco. The chassis batteries are fine but really confused now as I thought the chassis batteries are suppose to be different than the house batteries? Should I just replace the house batteries (costco has them for 80 bucks) and move on?
Parmalee81,
As usual, Smitty77 does a great job of informing. As for your particular battery situation. YES, the house batteries and the Chassis batteries are SUPPOSED to be different. There is no need for "Deep Cycle" batteries for use on starting or, chassis batteries. Someone just got lazy and wrote a check for 5 batteries and plopped them all in. It's not really a big deal, it's just that deep cycles are not needed for starting.
High cranking amperage batteries are normally used in the chassis battery compartment.

Now, our coach, which is simalar to yours, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the 330 CAT, came to us with (3) brand new 12V Interstate Group 29 Deep cycle/Marine house batteries. Within one month after we took possession, one had developed a bad cell. Within two more months, another one went bad! So much for "Interstate" batteries. I chucked all of them an changed over to (4) 6V Deep Cycle Golf Cart batteries from Costco. Been with them ever since.

Now, you say you don't dry camp or "boon dock" as the expression goes, well, then you really don't need the high staying power of 6V ones. A good (if there is such a thing of 12V "so called" deep cycle ones will do the trick. Now, if you have a residential fridge, yes, that will make a difference. Residential fridges are becoming more popular. But, while they have their benefits, there's also pit falls too. For one, and the most important, they only work on 120VAC.

So, you have to supply that 120VAC ALL THE TIME in order for them to work. There's many threads on here about them and what's needed for effecient operation. Basically, you're Inverter/Charger needs to be on, 24/7.

I won't go any further 'cause we don't have one. Someone with one and uses it regularly will chime in and tell you the specs on power demands and what loads are placed on the batteries. Good luck.
Scott
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Old 01-05-2017, 03:35 PM   #9
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thanks Scott, now I'm really clueless!
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:31 PM   #10
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2004 Journey with absorption fridge.

We started with Trojan deep cycles ... they lasted about a year ... switched to Interstate ... they last two years ... switched to Walmart ... they seem to last at least 3 years (sometimes 4) and cost much less than either Trojan or Interstate ... and as the saying goes "you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Walmart" ... I am on my third set of Walmart batteries (I had one set that only lasted a few months and they were replaced for free)

We never boondock.


P.S. When the Interstate battery went bad they would only replace that battery ... the other two failed as soon as I was out of warranty. Walmart has always agreed to replace all three batteries
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:23 PM   #11
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thanks Scott, now I'm really clueless!
Parmalee81,
I hope I didn't make you that way. My goal was to try and inform you of how we do it, what we have and why. One thing I mis-stated though is, when I said you need your inverter/charger on 24/7 and in the "ON" position, that really pertains to traveling and, when parked anywhere where, you're not plugged into shore power. When on shore power, your inverter/charger is out of the loop. Shore power handles the duty of powering up the fridge.

Most of the residential fridges used in todays coaches, whether they're installed from the factory or, installed aftermarket, are pretty efficient in terms of energy consumption. They're 10 times better than they were 10 years ago. But, they still have to run on 120VAC only. When folks boon dock or, dry camp, and have those style fridges, they've usually compensated by adding maybe two or more batteries and a separate inverter JUST TO HANDLE the fridge.

Or, they've installed some serious solar on the roof to help with the charging of the house batteries that are destined to run the fridge. Anyway, sorry for the long rant but, I hope I've cleared things up for you.
Scott
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Old 01-06-2017, 05:23 AM   #12
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hi, just purchased 07 Vectra Td and need to replace the 3 house batteries; not sure what to buy? 12 volt deep cycle but the price varies widely? we dont dry camp very often so any ideas? Not sure I understand the AH/ Amp hours?Thanks and I hope I'm doing this correctly as this is my first post.
Thanks Perry
First I would recommend you search and read "The 12 volt side of life parts 1 and 2". It explains amp hours and the difference between true deep cycle and starter batteries. It also shows how to hook up and maintain each.

I have a residential fridge powered by 4 each Costco 6 Volt golf cart batteries costing approx. $89 each. This allows me to go approx. 24 hours before recharging is required. Their are times when charging your batteries is not readily available such as at a repair facility, and the additional battery capacity will be greatly appreciated.

Hope this helps
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:37 AM   #13
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If we're me in your place with the five batteries the same. I would have the existing batteries checked and keep the best three of five for the house if three test good. Then replace the two start batteries with the proper 950 cranking amp batteries. With the refer you have and not boondocking much the three 12 volt should be fine, then if you were to decide to boondock more look into adding one battery more if you have room with the highest amp hour rating you can find/afford.

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Old 01-06-2017, 06:40 PM   #14
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Would not recommend skimping on batteries

I would recommend group 31 AGM batteries (Yes they are more expensive)
I would also not recommend a combination starting/Deep cycle battery that are sold as doing both services. (But neither one very well) A company called "East Penn Battery" makes the best quality batteries and are sold under several different names. I replaced my 6 year old OEM batteries with the same ones that Winnebago had put in originally - NAPA group 31 AGM - Made by East Penn Battery. The batteries are the life blood of your coach, if they quit everything stops.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by parmelee81 View Post
hi, just purchased 07 Vectra Td and need to replace the 3 house batteries; not sure what to buy? 12 volt deep cycle but the price varies widely? we dont dry camp very often so any ideas? Not sure I understand the AH/ Amp hours?Thanks and I hope I'm doing this correctly as this is my first post.
Thanks Perry
Welcome to the forum.

Let me start fresh.

The residential fridge is wonderful to have. Ours is working great. As previously stated, it uses 120vac, thus residential, power. Your inverter provides this power. It takes the 12Vdc of the batteries and changes it to 120vac. You may have a Magnum pure sine wave inverter. Another type of inverter is called a modified sine wave. The power from this is not as clean as the pure sine wave type.

A good, low maintenance battery type is the AGM. This is a no maintenance battery. I won't confuse you with details. You can look this up on the web. If your inverter is a Magnum PSW type (I trust Magnum) you can use AGM batteries.

The advantage of 6Vx2=12V batteries is they last longer than a simple 12V battery arraignment. (This is the very simple answer.)

You want to have as many amp hours available as you can fit in your coach. The batteries will not work as hard and will last longer. (Think of horse power.)

Back to the fridge. When you are on the road, your batteries are supplying the power to keep the inverter working. Yes, they are being charged by the engine alternator, true, but they are still the supplier of power to the inverter. When you stop for a break or a Walmart overnight stay the inverter is keeping your food cold. It supplies power to the microwave also. I don't recommend this use for more than a quick coffee warm-up. You don't have enough battery power available for much more. Use your generator for microwave cooking in this situation.

So, back to the batteries. The Interstate battery is a very bad choice, as stated already. Winnebago no longer uses this brand. Pen State, Deka, Life Line (pricey), Trojan... all good names to use.

Bottom line: Physical size and aH are what count along with type of batter. Many folks use flooded (same as in most cars) cell, deep cycle batteries. But, house batteries MUST be deep cycle.

I hope this is a beginning answer to your very good question.

Happy trails and many of them.

Rick Y
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:46 AM   #16
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Parmalee81,
As usual, Smitty77 does a great job of informing. As for your particular battery situation. YES, the house batteries and the Chassis batteries are SUPPOSED to be different. There is no need for "Deep Cycle" batteries for use on starting or, chassis batteries. Someone just got lazy and wrote a check for 5 batteries and plopped them all in. It's not really a big deal, it's just that deep cycles are not needed for starting.
High cranking amperage batteries are normally used in the chassis battery compartment.

Now, our coach, which is simalar to yours, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the 330 CAT, came to us with (3) brand new 12V Interstate Group 29 Deep cycle/Marine house batteries. Within one month after we took possession, one had developed a bad cell. Within two more months, another one went bad! So much for "Interstate" batteries. I chucked all of them an changed over to (4) 6V Deep Cycle Golf Cart batteries from Costco. Been with them ever since.

Now, you say you don't dry camp or "boon dock" as the expression goes, well, then you really don't need the high staying power of 6V ones. A good (if there is such a thing of 12V "so called" deep cycle ones will do the trick. Now, if you have a residential fridge, yes, that will make a difference. Residential fridges are becoming more popular. But, while they have their benefits, there's also pit falls too. For one, and the most important, they only work on 120VAC.

So, you have to supply that 120VAC ALL THE TIME in order for them to work. There's many threads on here about them and what's needed for effecient operation. Basically, you're Inverter/Charger needs to be on, 24/7.

I won't go any further 'cause we don't have one. Someone with one and uses it regularly will chime in and tell you the specs on power demands and what loads are placed on the batteries. Good luck.
Scott
I have the Horizon 40AD which has the 3 12 volt batteries in the roll out drawer. Were you able to put the 4 6 volt batteries in the same space as the 3 12 volt batteries or did you have to relocate one? It does not seem like there is any additional room in the battery drawer.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:04 AM   #17
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12volt 6volt is getting to be a moot point. Several makes HAVE true 12 volt DEEP CYCLE and when room for three or four the newer 12s have as much or more amp hours than the 6volt. As to interstate being bad everyone has an opinion, I've seen all fail, luck of the draw. Trojan make some very impressive 12 volt now, but just like the 6's are pricy. If hight is not a problem there are taller 6 volt that have more amp hours and for residential refers, NICE.

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Old 01-08-2017, 12:13 PM   #18
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I have the Horizon 40AD which has the 3 12 volt batteries in the roll out drawer. Were you able to put the 4 6 volt batteries in the same space as the 3 12 volt batteries or did you have to relocate one? It does not seem like there is any additional room in the battery drawer.
Heating man,
Long story short, when my Interstates, (at less than a year old) bit the dust, as stated, I opted for (4) 6V GC batteries from Costco. Iv'e ran Trojans in the past and, while they did OK in the longevity department, they were nothing to write home about. Not only that but, they DOUBLED in price in short time from one purchase to the next. So, those were definitely OUT.

As for fitment of the (4) 6V ones, it worked out just fine. I measured my battery tray, and compartment header height about a dozen times and drove to Costco to see if theirs would work. I took 4 of them out of their racks, placed them on the floor and grouped them all together and measured all the dimensions.

The only one that was/is REALLY close is the header of the compartment. When those batteries are in and all the cables are hooked up and laying as flat as possible, as that battery tray slides in, Iv'e got about 3/16" clearance between the posts/battery filler tops etc. But, the old cliche says: " A miss is as good as a mile". In the pics below, you see the "before" and after installation. If you're wondering where the battery tie-downs are on the 6V setup, there aren't any. Those 6V units weigh 67 lbs. EACH! And, there's not much room above them in that compartment. They're not going anywhere.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:21 AM   #19
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Hey, Scott, Thank you so much!!! I think I'm going to go to Costco this morning and return the 3 12 volts and buy the 4 6 volts now that I know they will fit. Any certain kind/brand that I should buy? Also, do I need to buy new battery connector cables or will the current ones work? Finally, is there anything I need to do besides just put the batteries in and connect them?
Thank you sooo much!
Perry
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:38 AM   #20
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Perry, Please take a moment to do some research on the 12V electrical side before you run out. Changing over from 3 12v to 4 6v is not too difficult but you absolutely need to know what you are doing.

The wiring is very different. Your 12vs are wired in parallel, the bank of 6v must be wired in series to get 12v and then the 12v pairs wired in parallel. You will certainly need different cables than what you have now. Care must also be taken in making sure you get the inverter/converter cables wired properly.

Scott is a wizard at this and did a terrific job, but it's not just a simple case of removing one set of 12v and dropping in 6v. Doing this change improperly could fry some of your electrical components.
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