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Old 12-12-2016, 11:38 AM   #1
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Help-12V DC issues

Had the brainstorm to run the inverter yesterday while on the road to cook a stew in the crock pot. About an hour down the road the propane detector started beeping (replaced it this summer). When I finally found a place to stop to check we noticed the lights were dim and blinking also. Shut off inverter and checked battery voltage at batteries and they were 12.9 which matched the control panel for the inverter. We have a Magnum MMS1012 -1000w inverter with a ME-RC remote control. Panel on crock pot shows 200w

Got to a park and plugged into shore power. Battery charger on inverter showed float charge and 13.5-same at batteries. Still the lights were dim or not on at all-especially the refer incandescent bulb. Called Magnum industries this am to confirm that coach 12v did not go through inverter and they said no-. Inverter shares the batteries for power only. It has a 10v cutoff so when batteries fall below that inverter shuts down.

This am I did resets on the inverter just to be sure-no change in dc lights. Checked power from batteries at the inverter connection-was 12.9 with shore power and solar disconnected. Checked power at the dc fuse panel and only 9.8.

Not sure if the problem is bad batteries or something else that isn't getting full voltage to the panel. Any thoughts on this. I turned inverter on when shore power was off and voltage dropped some-12.6 but tv powered up along with the computer charger. Left on for about half hour and voltage showed steady at 12.6-12.7. Seems if batteries were weak that the inverter would shut down. Help
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:55 AM   #2
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I don't know if this will help you ... it won't hurt anything and may help
Disconnect your battery terminals and wait about 30 seconds before you reconnect them.
On my '99 Adventurer, I was dry camping out in a very remote place with no cell phone service ... I had my inverter on ... we discharged the battery enough that the inverter "shut off" ... however, it would not reset itself ... in desperation I disconnected the battery cables ... when I hooked them back up everything worked as it should. My son calls this a "??? REBOOT"
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:39 PM   #3
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Not sure if this would be helpful for your issue.
If you use an inverter while traveling the inverter is pulling power from the batteries AND being "recharged" by the engine alternator. Should be a neutral change in voltage. I am using my inverter to power my Residential Refer while traveling on the road. Been working well.
Dim 12v lighting is a sign of low voltage in the house batteries and would disappear when you switch back to shore power. House batteries would then be recharged from shore power with your converter. Converter should fully power your 12v lighting on shore power. BUT if your not on shore power and you still have 12v lighting that's dim. I would look at the House Batteries. If you burn off the "water" to expose the lead tops...you have ruined the battery. I have found that AGM Lifeline battery to be very very good. Low maintenance. NO white crud buildup. Sealed so you have no burn off of water. No refilling needed. Going on 4 years now and still going strong. Regular battery your lucky to get 3 years.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:50 PM   #4
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If you have a battery disconnect in your battery control center, it ( solenoid ) is probably going bad.

They disconnecting and connecting it a few times with the switch. If it clears up, you know what the problem is.

You can also jump from one large post to the other to see if things get normal.

None of this involves the inverter.
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:29 AM   #5
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Thanks all. I have turned the house/coach battery switch on and off a few times but not consecutively. Will try that. You can hear something switching but I believe the solenoids on our coach are behind the chassis dc circuit breaker panel near the right front tire-will have to have my wife flip the switch while I listen. The switch/solenoid seems to work as with it off voltage at panel is 2.5v and the 10 when on. The fact that there is anything there when off may indicate faulty relay-just don't know

We are on shore power but no luck on the lights or dc voltage-still shows right at 10v at the DC fuse panel in the coach. Have checked all connections I could get to for tightness-all good.

We have Interstate AGM batteries but they are 8 years old and have been going strong. Worked well on the way down with dry camping until the we got the detector beeping while using the inverter. It seems like I did notice that while engine was running that my inverter panel showed near 14 v indicating that the alternator was charging the batteries but will need to check that again. With older batteries if not charging could have hurt them bad. Again though I disconnected the batteries and checked voltage and both were 12.9 v.

Will probably replace batteries as they are getting old but am afraid won't cure the issue.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevegd007 View Post
Not sure if this would be helpful for your issue.
If you use an inverter while traveling the inverter is pulling power from the batteries AND being "recharged" by the engine alternator. Should be a neutral change in voltage. I am using my inverter to power my Residential Refer while traveling on the road. Been working well.
Dim 12v lighting is a sign of low voltage in the house batteries and would disappear when you switch back to shore power. House batteries would then be recharged from shore power with your converter. Converter should fully power your 12v lighting on shore power. BUT if your not on shore power and you still have 12v lighting that's dim. I would look at the House Batteries. If you burn off the "water" to expose the lead tops...you have ruined the battery. I have found that AGM Lifeline battery to be very very good. Low maintenance. NO white crud buildup. Sealed so you have no burn off of water. No refilling needed. Going on 4 years now and still going strong. Regular battery your lucky to get 3 years.
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Old 12-14-2016, 09:42 AM   #7
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Mine had a fuse between the house battery bank and the inverter. Check that. your wire off the battery bank will go to a stud then there will be a fuse then another stud with a cable that runs on into the unit. Easy way to check is to use a jumper cable to bypass the fuse and see if that solves the problem. If it is that the fuse should be readily available at the auto parts store. I blew this fuse with my coffee pot but it sounds the same as the problem you are having. Hope this helps! Please let us know what it ends up being.
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Old 12-14-2016, 09:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzerjump View Post
Thanks all. I have turned the house/coach battery switch on and off a few times but not consecutively. Will try that. You can hear something switching but I believe the solenoids on our coach are behind the chassis dc circuit breaker panel near the right front tire-will have to have my wife flip the switch while I listen. The switch/solenoid seems to work as with it off voltage at panel is 2.5v and the 10 when on. The fact that there is anything there when off may indicate faulty relay-just don't know

We are on shore power but no luck on the lights or dc voltage-still shows right at 10v at the DC fuse panel in the coach. Have checked all connections I could get to for tightness-all good.

We have Interstate AGM batteries but they are 8 years old and have been going strong. Worked well on the way down with dry camping until the we got the detector beeping while using the inverter. It seems like I did notice that while engine was running that my inverter panel showed near 14 v indicating that the alternator was charging the batteries but will need to check that again. With older batteries if not charging could have hurt them bad. Again though I disconnected the batteries and checked voltage and both were 12.9 v.

Will probably replace batteries as they are getting old but am afraid won't cure the issue.
IF your batterys are 12.9 volts and your pluged into SP and have no 12V Dc then either your disconnect solenoid is shot or you have a bad connection somewhere or bad switch etc
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Old 12-14-2016, 09:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forza Tom View Post
Mine had a fuse between the house battery bank and the inverter. Check that. your wire off the battery bank will go to a stud then there will be a fuse then another stud with a cable that runs on into the unit. Easy way to check is to use a jumper cable to bypass the fuse and see if that solves the problem. If it is that the fuse should be readily available at the auto parts store. I blew this fuse with my coffee pot but it sounds the same as the problem you are having. Hope this helps! Please let us know what it ends up being.
that fuse will effect the charge rate of the batterys and the inverter system but will not effect the fact he has NO house 12V and yet his batterys are at 12,9 volts
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Old 12-14-2016, 09:54 AM   #10
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that fuse will effect the charge rate of the batterys and the inverter system but will not effect the fact he has NO house 12V and yet his batterys are at 12,9 volts
You would think that but it is in fact not the case as mine showed all the proper voltage so we went with a volt meter from point to point to discover that issue.

Mine has 2 separate cables with this type of fuse in line so maybe one is for incoming and one is outgoing.

I lost all of my inverted 12V power suddenly when I turned on our coffee pot and overloaded the inverter and that is exactly what it ended up being.
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Old 12-16-2016, 08:55 AM   #11
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thanks all. On our coach that inline fuse protects the inverter if it overdraws from the battery when inverting to ac but I had full battery voltage to the inverter when I checked at inverter connection. I also had full voltage going through all three solenoids when I checked them so the problem had to be a bad wire somewhere or ground. I had checked all connections I could get to and all were fine.

Took coach to Finley RV in Vegas and the tech was stumped for a while but decided to run an outside wire from the dc breaker panel to the dc fuse panel in the coach-problem cured. He had to get some more specific wiring schematics from Winnebago but could find and pull a new wire through. The service manager indicated that the damage to the wire could not be seen externally but the tech did upgrade the wire from an 8 to a 6 as the circuit breaker for the panel is a 40 amp.

The service manager also indicated that the inverter probably shouldn't be used for appliances but as I think about that it would defeat the purpose for having an inverter. My guess is the wire was damaged during installation-kinked or something-and the wires finally shredded inside. I don't see how drawing power from the battery to run an inverter to power a 200 watt AC aplliance (the inverter showed an 11 amp draw) would affect the dc power on a separate circuit to the dc panel unless the coach battery was overcharging or something. Am I missing something here?

Anyway all is well now and I was pleased with Finley. They worked me in even though they were jammed and got it out in a day. Good people and would recommend-even discounted the price $100!

Now if I could only find a way to adjust the level probes on the black water tank-rarely shows empty even after dumping and flushing. Have tried some of the cleaning tips-downy/tide with over half tank and drove 200 miles then dump and flush. I flush two or three times until all drain water looks clean when we dump but still an issue. On our old coach you could adjust the sensitivity on the back of the panel switch but this one doesn't seem to have the little screw to do that.
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Old 12-17-2016, 12:41 PM   #12
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I have discovered the same thing. My '03 allowed adjustment, the newer ones, no little screw adjustment in the back. There has to be a way?
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzerjump View Post
thanks all. On our coach that inline fuse protects the inverter if it overdraws from the battery when inverting to ac but I had full battery voltage to the inverter when I checked at inverter connection. I also had full voltage going through all three solenoids when I checked them so the problem had to be a bad wire somewhere or ground. I had checked all connections I could get to and all were fine.

Took coach to Finley RV in Vegas and the tech was stumped for a while but decided to run an outside wire from the dc breaker panel to the dc fuse panel in the coach-problem cured. He had to get some more specific wiring schematics from Winnebago but could find and pull a new wire through. The service manager indicated that the damage to the wire could not be seen externally but the tech did upgrade the wire from an 8 to a 6 as the circuit breaker for the panel is a 40 amp.

The service manager also indicated that the inverter probably shouldn't be used for appliances but as I think about that it would defeat the purpose for having an inverter. My guess is the wire was damaged during installation-kinked or something-and the wires finally shredded inside. I don't see how drawing power from the battery to run an inverter to power a 200 watt AC aplliance (the inverter showed an 11 amp draw) would affect the dc power on a separate circuit to the dc panel unless the coach battery was overcharging or something. Am I missing something here?

Anyway all is well now and I was pleased with Finley. They worked me in even though they were jammed and got it out in a day. Good people and would recommend-even discounted the price $100!

Now if I could only find a way to adjust the level probes on the black water tank-rarely shows empty even after dumping and flushing. Have tried some of the cleaning tips-downy/tide with over half tank and drove 200 miles then dump and flush. I flush two or three times until all drain water looks clean when we dump but still an issue. On our old coach you could adjust the sensitivity on the back of the panel switch but this one doesn't seem to have the little screw to do that.
Good Result and Good Info, except for the bit about not using an inverter to run appliances. Welcome back to the Rolling Pot Roast Crowd
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Old 12-17-2016, 01:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
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You would think that but it is in fact not the case as mine showed all the proper voltage so we went with a volt meter from point to point to discover that issue.

Mine has 2 separate cables with this type of fuse in line so maybe one is for incoming and one is outgoing.

I lost all of my inverted 12V power suddenly when I turned on our coffee pot and overloaded the inverter and that is exactly what it ended up being.
yes you would Lose inverted power but that's not what the OP is talking here at all two different issues
The op lost 12v power to his house switch systems
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:54 PM   #15
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A 200 watt appliance is gonna pull a good 20 plus amps from the 12volt circuit. That's a lot of amps to pull steadily for a long period. I agree with the service guy about not using appliances like a crock pot off an inverter if it is going to be on for along time. I would wonder why the alternator do not keep up but maybe the wire just heated up and failed.
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Old 12-17-2016, 04:17 PM   #16
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A 200 watt appliance is gonna pull a good 20 plus amps from the 12volt circuit. That's a lot of amps to pull steadily for a long period. I agree with the service guy about not using appliances like a crock pot off an inverter if it is going to be on for along time. I would wonder why the alternator do not keep up but maybe the wire just heated up and failed.
200 watts at 110 volts is less than 2 amps. Hardly any draw at all. The inverter is rated at 1000 watts so he is just running it at idle
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:33 AM   #17
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I was talking about the 12 volt side where the problem is or was occurring. 20 amps at 12 volts is not trivial. At full load a 1000 watt inverter will be pulling 100 amps out of the battery. Fried wires baby.
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Old 12-18-2016, 09:43 AM   #18
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I was talking about the 12 volt side where the problem is or was occurring. 20 amps at 12 volts is not trivial. At full load a 1000 watt inverter will be pulling 100 amps out of the battery. Fried wires baby.
A 200 watt crock pot draws about 1.8 amps at 110 volts, on the 12 volt side this equates to about 18 amps ...running the crock pot should not be a concern. The F53 alternator puts out 175 amps and easily keeps up with that draw. What's the point of having an Inverter if you are told not to use it. The 12 volt cables between the batteries and the Inverter should be of sufficient AWG to handle the inverter's full draw if required. The Inverter manuals specify the wire size required for various size Inverters to operate safely at full draw. But in this case he's just using a crock pot, something I do all the time without any issues. You can run that off a 300 watt Inverter plugged into the accessory socket without issues.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:40 AM   #19
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Agree. You spend good money for an inverter to have 110v then a tech says not a good idea to use with appliances seems counter to why you have it.
I like this inverter for the 4 stage charger and would like tu use our drip coffee maker. It may be 850 w when brewing for about 10 min.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:10 PM   #20
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A 200 watt crock pot draws about 1.8 amps at 110 volts, on the 12 volt side this equates to about 18 amps ...running the crock pot should not be a concern. The F53 alternator puts out 175 amps and easily keeps up with that draw. What's the point of having an Inverter if you are told not to use it. The 12 volt cables between the batteries and the Inverter should be of sufficient AWG to handle the inverter's full draw if required. The Inverter manuals specify the wire size required for various size Inverters to operate safely at full draw. But in this case he's just using a crock pot, something I do all the time without any issues. You can run that off a 300 watt Inverter plugged into the accessory socket without issues.

In this context the OP was having battery problems, and I was only pointing out that WITHOUT a alternator to charge (which appears to be possible in this case) the inverter at 20 amp draw would kill the coach batteries in short order.

You have contributed NOTHING to the solution of the OP's issue, just rambling about the crockpot.

Whatever.
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