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Old 01-15-2014, 09:08 AM   #1
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Foaming hot water

Any suggestions on what may be causing air (foam) getting into the hot water system? I recently drained the system for the winter and upon refilling, I decided to add an anoid rod to the hot water heater. I don't see how that could be causing it. Is that a possibility?

The check valves are on either side, inlet or outlet of the water pump but the foam comes from either the city water hookup or 12v pump so I don't see how a defective valve would be causing it.

Any suggestions,

Thanks
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:06 AM   #2
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A question,
Did you flush the tank completely ? Any residue left in the tank; usually in the form of white lumps could be reacting with the new rod and giving you foam. Take a clear container and get a sample , and allow the water to settle, if there is any residue in the container, re-flush the tank.
Also check the faucets for blockage at the screen.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:08 AM   #3
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Your explanation is a little confusing since you're talking about 2 different areas of the plumbing system. When you put the anode in the water heater, did you first drain and flush the tank? When filling, did you open the high pressure overflow valve to bleed air out of the tank? If you aren't leaking water from somewhere under city water pressure I don't think air is being introduced into the system, it must be air at the top of the water heater tank. Check valves malfunction by stopping flow, they have no opening to introduce air.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:32 AM   #4
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If you have the original water heater it is an Atwood and does not require an anode rod. The Atwood manual says not to use one.

When you drained the system were you draining RV antifreeze? if so and if some of that got into the freshwater tank that can cause foaming until it is completely gone.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
When filling, did you open the high pressure overflow valve to bleed air out of the tank?
If you aren't leaking water from somewhere under city water pressure I don't think air is being introduced into the system, it must be air at the top of the water heater tank.
BFlinn181
Are you saying that the air pocket at the top of a water heater tank should be bled out?
If so, I disagree!

The following information, (and instructions of how to re-establish the required air pocket), will be found in the "Water Heater Operation Manual":
A pocket of air is necessary to allow for the expansion of the water when it's heated.
If/when the pocket of air is eliminated the P&T valve will likely drip/weep/leak.

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Old 01-15-2014, 11:55 AM   #6
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My hot water has real tiny bubbles in it (I don't think that I'd call it foam) for a while every year after I un-winterize it. I'm not sure what causes it but I was thinking that it may be from some residual effect of the pink antifreeze on the plumbing in the system. I do a pretty thorough sanitize and several clear water flushes but it still occurs. It usually takes a couple of days use to completely go away. If this is similar to what you're experiencing, I'd also be interested in hearing of a solution.
Al
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Old 01-15-2014, 12:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel stuplich View Post
BFlinn181
Are you saying that the air pocket at the top of a water heater tank should be bled out?
If so, I disagree!

The following information, (and instructions of how to re-establish the required air pocket), will be found in the "Water Heater Operation Manual":
A pocket of air is necessary to allow for the expansion of the water when it's heated.
If/when the pocket of air is eliminated the P&T valve will likely drip/weep/leak.

Mel
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Any excessive air should be bled out. The tank is a cylinder laying on it's side. My theory on the OPs foaming problem is that either all the pink stuff wasn't flushed out of the system or air is being added. If excessive air is in the tank, air could be introduced as it flows out of the tank since the hot outlet is the upper hose out of the tank:
(back of tank view) The pressure relief valve and the hot line out are both placed down from the top of the tank to ensure an air pocket develops. The pressure relief valve is in the end of the tank with a portion of the tank volume above the valve opening, more in an Atwood than a Suburban, but still true. Opening the relief valve will only allow venting up to the top of the opening, leaving an air pocket at the top of the tank to allow for expansion. If heated water expands beyond the capacity of the air pocket to absorb, excess water will vent out the pressure relief valve. The valve needs to be periodically exercised to ensure it isn't crudded up (technical term) and allowed to snap shut to ensure proper sealing. All manuals I've read say it's normal to have the overflow valve drip/weep/leak, It's always puzzled me why the valve doesn't have a pipe connected to drip under RV. In house heaters most codes require a discharge pipe to end within a certain distance to the floor to eliminate scalding if you were nearby when it opens.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181
Opening the relief valve will only allow venting up to the top of the opening, leaving an air pocket at the top of the tank to allow for expansion. If heated water expands beyond the capacity of the air pocket to absorb, excess water will vent out the pressure relief valve. The valve needs to be periodically exercised to ensure it isn't crudded up (technical term) and allowed to snap shut to ensure proper sealing. All manuals I've read say it's normal to have the overflow valve drip/weep/leak, It's always puzzled me why the valve doesn't have a pipe connected to drip under RV. In house heaters most codes require a discharge pipe to end within a certain distance to the floor to eliminate scalding if you were nearby when it opens.
BFlinn181

Thanks.
It seems we agree that it's normal for the overflow, (aka: T&P), valve to drip/weep/leak only if/when the pocket of air has been depleted/eliminated..... or if the T&P valve is "crudded up" with calcium deposits, (like mine was at 15 years of age).
Replacing mine with one of these: Watts 3/4 in. x 3/4 in. Lead-Free Brass MPT x FPT Safety Relief Valve - Boxed-LF 3/4 100XL 15 at The Home Depot cured my dripping weeping leak.

BTW, I may be wrong, but I assume that "no pipe to drip under RV" is required on a RV water heater T&P valve because the water heater, (and it's T&P valve), is normally covered by the sheet metal outside access cover if/when it is operating.

I'm sorry that I don't know the answer to the OP's "air (foam) getting into the hot water system" question.

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Old 01-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atodalen View Post
My hot water has real tiny bubbles in it (I don't think that I'd call it foam) for a while every year after I un-winterize it. I'm not sure what causes it but I was thinking that it may be from some residual effect of the pink antifreeze on the plumbing in the system. I do a pretty thorough sanitize and several clear water flushes but it still occurs. It usually takes a couple of days use to completely go away. If this is similar to what you're experiencing, I'd also be interested in hearing of a solution.
Al
X2 I just dewinterized 10 days ago and each year the bubbles take a few days to go away
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:07 PM   #10
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entrapped air

My MH does the same thing. Air entrapped on the hot water side. A little on the cold side.. reading the owners manual states that after recharging the water system to run the most distant faucet full open and then slowly reduce the flow to near off while the entrapped air follows the water stream and expels the air.

So that is what I do and it work. then after a few attempts I give up and wait a few days for all the air to find its way to the top and the "foam" bubbles disappear.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:16 PM   #11
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I've never noticed bubbles or foam after putting RV back in use after winterizing. I fill water tank with water and 1/4 cup of bleach per 10 gallons. Pump until I smell bleach at each faucet, top up the tank and then let sit about half day. Drain tank, Fill, run water in all drains until no odor, Drain tank again and partial fill for travel. (I don't fill for travel unless short distance to boon docking area) Never had an issue.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
I've never noticed bubbles or foam after putting RV back in use after winterizing. I fill water tank with water and 1/4 cup of bleach per 10 gallons. Pump until I smell bleach at each faucet, top up the tank and then let sit about half day. Drain tank, Fill, run water in all drains until no odor, Drain tank again and partial fill for travel. (I don't fill for travel unless short distance to boon docking area) Never had an issue.
Bob,
I'm just curious what your water pipes are made of. Are they PEX like most of todays units or something different that would explain why you don't experience the bubbles like some of us do?
Al
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:10 AM   #13
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I blow out the lines for storage and do not use antifreeze except in the drains and each year i get a little foaming when recharging the system....normal..
Depending on your heater, as others have said, an annode can damage your heater..
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:18 AM   #14
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I blow out the lines for storage and do not use antifreeze except in the drains and each year i get a little foaming when recharging the system....normal..
Depending on your heater, as others have said, an annode can damage your heater..
Interesting, I always thought that it had something to do with the antifreeze, guess I was wrong.
Al
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:29 AM   #15
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Bob,
I'm just curious what your water pipes are made of. Are they PEX like most of todays units or something different that would explain why you don't experience the bubbles like some of us do?
Al
They're PEX with a large plastic distribution manifold. Perhaps I just haven't noticed air in the lines, but I am careful to run lots of fresh water through the system, filling the tank to full at least twice. before putting it in service. I have a two port inlet, one hose connection for city water and another opening to fill tank, no valves to switch one port for both chores. I prefer the two port option, seems to me it would be harder to overfill the tank since it obviously overflows the fill spout when full.
I've never had anything like foam come out, except a beer tap.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
I've never noticed bubbles or foam after putting RV back in use after winterizing. I fill water tank with water and 1/4 cup of bleach per 10 gallons. Pump until I smell bleach at each faucet, top up the tank and then let sit about half day. Drain tank, Fill, run water in all drains until no odor, Drain tank again and partial fill for travel. (I don't fill for travel unless short distance to boon docking area) Never had an issue.
BFlinn181
I've never had bubbles/foam in my water either, (and my coach has been winterized and put back in use over 24 times in the 13 years I have owned it).

Where we differ is: my fresh water system has only been sanitized once and I usually fill the tank before travel.

Different strokes for different folks!
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:02 AM   #17
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Guess that I'll just have to accept that it's a fairly common, though not universal, issue. Sometimes I just can't let something be until I have an understanding of what causes it. Sure could use that keg now, Bob.
Happy Trails,
Al
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:10 AM   #18
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Where we differ is: my fresh water system has only been sanitized once and I usually fill the tank before travel.

Different strokes for different folks!
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I poorly worded my response, I leave tank at about 1/2 full, I don't fill it to the top for travel. At over 8.3 lbs per gallon, I don't see the need to burn fuel to haul what I can get where I'm going unless boon docking.
Wonder if the foaming in the water that goes through the heater could be from deposits in the tank? I'm amazed how much crud I get each time I remove plug and anode and flush the tank. I've filled with vinegar to clear it out and a year later it's built up again!
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:13 PM   #19
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The foaming is a common issue when de-winterizing after using antifreeze. Probably got a little antifreeze into the hot water heater. Flush the hot water side (with heater turned off) simply by running the hot water system very thoroughly, and it should clear it up.

There is a really neat tool that Camco sells to flush the minerals and goop from the bottom of your hot water tank through the plastic drain plug, for under $20. It attaches to your garden hose, has a valve, and a short wand with a turned down end.

If you have never flushed your hot water heater, you'll be surprised how much minerals and goop (technical term) you'll get out. By the way, all this stuff contributes to the sulfery smell one gets from their hot water system when in operation.

Atwood does not recommend using an anode rode in an aluminum tank. Stick to the plastic plug.
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