Do I have a multi-stage converter/charger?

[macnut]

Gtrharris, thanks for the great info. I will also share whatever I get from Schumacher and Winnebago.
Al

[macnut]

Khogle2, since you have an Adventurer (top of the gas line), and I have the cheapest Sunstar (bottom of the gas line), I am wondering if we really have the same converter. I thought the Adventurer has an inverter. If that's the case, you may have a slightly different (and better) unit. Just checking and please disregard if you have already validated the model number on your RV.

[macnut]

Gtharris, by the way, thanks for the link to the other thread....lots of great info! I thought I had read the whole thread, but didn't notice the second page until your last comment. Still a little confused since the manufacturer says it's a three stage charger and Winnebago says it is a single stage charger. However, the advice to use the button unit first before just replacing it, while also check the water regularly, or just use the battery shut off switch sounds like a good plan to start with.

[macnut]

Sorry for the typo....meant to say "use the built-in unit first".

[khogle2]

Originally Posted by macnut

Khogle2, since you have an Adventurer (top of the gas line), and I have the cheapest Sunstar (bottom of the gas line), I am wondering if we really have the same converter. I thought the Adventurer has an inverter. If that's the case, you may have a slightly different (and better) unit. Just checking and please disregard if you have already validated the model number on your RV.

It does have a separate inverter, but also a converter (mine shows 55 amp, but it could be different). It seems the older models had an inverter charger and the newer ones seem to be equipped with a separate inverter and converter? I am not sure why this is done. Maybe someone has the explanation for this. The gas models are getting some upgrades that used to be diesel model only. Maybe in the effort to standardize production line parts? Not sure.

One thing for sure, finding information on the Schumacher unit was informative, so it's appreciated. I am also surprised that Schumacher says three stage and Winnebago says single?

[Paulc47]

Our 2014 Sightseer 33c has a Progressive Dynamics 9245 three stage(plus equalize) charger according to our build sheet.

[khogle2]

Originally Posted by Paulc47

Our 2014 Sightseer 33c has a Progressive Dynamics 9245 three stage(plus equalize) charger according to our build sheet.

That sounds like a better model than mine. Nice.

[macnut]

Just heard back from Winnebago and they confirmed that this is a single stage charger. So at least their answers are consistent. :-)

[Shadowcatche]

Do your battery(s) a favor and buy a Progressive Dynamics 4600 Series Upgrade or Replacement Power Converters from Progressive Dynamics if it will fit. I find it difficult to believe a manufacturer would put a single stage converter in anything modern.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by macnut

Just heard back from Winnebago and they confirmed that this is a single stage charger. So at least their answers are consistent. :-)

Our 2013 Adventurer also uses a Schumacher 55 amp converter/charger. Ours is model SARVC55. I can't find much information on it, but I believe it is also a single stage charger.

Check through the electrical section of your supplemental manual. There may be a section covering a Precision Circuits Inc. "Battery Isolation Manager".

The Battery Isolation Manager performs many of the same functions of a 3 stage charger. It monitors the state of both the coach and chassis batteries and determines when each should be charged. It limits the charge to each battery when it nears a full charge, and lowers the charge going to each battery at predetermined levels. It has many more functions which I won't go into at this time.

One noteworthy thing is that this Isolation Manager works with both the Schumacher charger and the chassis alternator. As a side note the batteries (both chassis and coach) in our old Adventurer lasted over 8 years using just a single stage charger and no Isolation Manager.

[macnut]

Thanks for the info on the adventurer. I do not see a battery isolation manager on the 26HE, but it sounds like a great system. I know our converter does not charge the chassis battery (only the alternator does), so it looks like they put in a simplified system for the 26HE. We are really enjoying our 26HE...our first RV....and in a few years we will upgrade to an Adventurer or Journey. Sounds so like we will be very happy with either! I have really learned a lot about motorhomes in the two years we've had her, thanks in part to all the great people on the iRV2 forum.

[tderonne]

I have heard about Battery Isolation Managers before, but never that they are anything like a 3 stage charger.

Reading the brochure it does indeed mention that it can prevent overcharging, but all it can do is connect or disconnect the batteries from each other. In other words, if your single stage charger is overcharging the house batteries, it'll disconnect the batteries so the chassis battery doesn't get overcharged too. It can't disconnect the charger from the house battery.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by tderonne

I have heard about Battery Isolation Managers before, but never that they are anything like a 3 stage charger.

Reading the brochure it does indeed mention that it can prevent overcharging, but all it can do is connect or disconnect the batteries from each other. In other words, if your single stage charger is overcharging the house batteries, it'll disconnect the batteries so the chassis battery doesn't get overcharged too. It can't disconnect the charger from the house battery.

According to the operators manual the Isolation manager will disconnect from either set of batteries by shutting down either the coach or chassis battery input every hour and only turning back on when the battery(s) need charging.

Here's a link to the "Operators Manual":
http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com/...geManualX2.pdf

The Schumacher charger/converter can be run with the batteries disconnected.

Per the manual:
"Although the Mity-Mite SARVC converter is battery charger, it does not require a battery to be connected to properly operate. If the 12-volt loading exceeds the converter capability, the output voltage automatically reduces to prevent further increases in current. In the rare instance this would occur, turn off turn off some lights and/or appliances and the output voltage will return to normal."

[tderonne]

Still not seeing where it can do anything except turn the relay (the connection between the batteries) on or off. There's no separate connections for the converter (charger) or alternator so I just don't see how it would be able to not charge either battery.

[khogle2]

Here's the info on mine: I've had good luck on mine with this combination in the last year. I closely monitored voltage and charge (on both chassis and house) and it's as good as most regulated voltage control units used in automotive applications. Sample of one.

"Once the battieries have reached a Float Charge state for one hour, the BIM will isolate the batteries to prevent overcharging, and will only reconnect the batteries for charging if one of the Battery drops to approximately 80% charge, and the other is being charged. This long term monitoring of the batteries prevents the annoying relay clicking that exists in simpler Isolation Modules today"

[grtharris]

I agree with tderonne the only thing the BIM can do is connect or disconnect the coach battery from the chassis battery. It has no control over the charging of the coach battery from the converter.
One nice thing is it looks like it will keep the chassis battery charged when connected to shore power by connecting the coach battery to the chassis battery when the chassis battery drops to 80% and the coach battery is begin charged.
I was miss led by the tech during our PDI and was told it would not keep the chassis battery charged so I added a Trik-L-Start.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by grtharris

I agree with tderonne the only thing the BIM can do is connect or disconnect the coach battery from the chassis battery. It has no control over the charging of the coach battery from the converter.
One nice thing is it looks like it will keep the chassis battery charged when connected to shore power by connecting the coach battery to the chassis battery when the chassis battery drops to 80% and the coach battery is begin charged.
I was miss led by the tech during our PDI and was told it would not keep the chassis battery charged so I added a Trik-L-Start.

Connecting and disconnecting the chassis battery from the house batteries is only 1 function of the BIM. It also monitors the state of charge of each set of batteries and disconnects or connects one or both to the charging system as needed.

"3. Bi-Directional Charging

a. Charge Coach Battery when Alternator is charging Chassis Battery

b. Charge Chassis Battery when Converter is charging Coach Battery"

It monitors the state of charge of all batteries and disconnects each set from the charging system independently (shore, power, alternator, or generator) when fully charged.

It disconnects all batteries from the charging systems if/when both the chassis alternator and the generator are attempting to charge them. This function isn't used on our Adventurer unless the transfer switch fails. The transfer switch is supposed to automatically use the chassis alternator as a charging system should both the engine and the generator be running

It continues to monitor all batteries and reconnects them as needed when the state of charge falls below an 80% charge if one of the charging systems is operational and one of the battery sets is being charged .

Overview: (partial Quote)

"Once the batteries have reached a Float Charge state for one hour, the BIM will isolate the batteries to prevent overcharging, and will only reconnect the batteries for charging if one of the Battery drops to approximately 80% charge, and the other is being charged."

If you read the BIM Operation manual carefully it's obvious it does considerably more than connect and disconnect one set of batteries from the other. It monitors the state of charge of each set and connects and disconnects them from an active charging source independently as needed. It determines if there are competing charging sources and disconnects them should that situation be detected. It continually monitors the state of charge all batteries, prevents them from being overcharged when a charging system is present, and the chassis batteries from being discharged when a charging system is absent..

[khogle2]

Amp draw thru the converter drops to zero during storage hooked up to 50 amp in my barn. It looks to be regulated pretty well. Perhaps a system engineer at Winnebago could provide more detail? Not disparaging anyone's competing system, just mentioning that so far, this seems to regulate charge reasonably well. Battery electrolyte levels remain stable over the last years time. Durability is unknown.

[tderonne]

Think what you want. It's just a solenoid/relay/contactor with some electronics slapped on it. Google "smart battery isolator" or "smart battery combiner" and you'll find lots of them. They just connect and disconnect the two battery banks.

Here's the PCI one:


Not saying it isn't an improvement over the dumb solenoid used before 2013. It is smarter. Charges both banks from either the alternator or converter/inverter charger.

I've used my dumb solenoid and single stage charger for 10 years. 6 years on my 4 6 volt battery setup. Such systems obviously work pretty good for a lot of people.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by tderonne

Think what you want. It's just a solenoid/relay/contactor with some electronics slapped on it. Google "smart battery isolator" or "smart battery combiner" and you'll find lots of them. They just connect and disconnect the two battery banks.

Here's the PCI one:


Not saying it isn't an improvement over the dumb solenoid used before 2013. It is smarter. Charges both banks from either the alternator or converter/inverter charger.

I've used my dumb solenoid and single stage charger for 10 years. 6 years on my 4 6 volt battery setup. Such systems obviously work pretty good for a lot of people.

I'm not saying this system is the end all or be all of battery charging systems. What I am saying is it's different (and hopefully as good or better) than the dumb solenoid and single stage charger of past generations.

Personally I had no problems with our old system that was a dumb solenoid and single stage charger. We never had problems with dead or overcharged batteries. Our original set lasted 4 years and only died then due to human error.

The second set was over 8 years old when it came time to replace them.