Didn't expect this battery problem????

[DAN L]

Winnie32v
I installed 2 lifeline 6v AGM Batteries ON THEIR SIDES about 8 years ago. They are still working well. We live in our Moho full-time. Still using the original 45 amp converter-charger, float v. 13.6 v.
There is a post with pics in the archives of this forum explaining my installation and rationalization for using these high priced batteries.
It used to be easy to find this post. Not so anymore.
You may have to enlist a moderator for help!

[tderonne]

Originally Posted by DAN L

It used to be easy to find this post. Not so anymore.

AGM installation

Or this one

(They in the link I posted above, couple links in.)

[winnie32v]

Originally Posted by winnie32v

Thanks, Hikerdogs.
Good to hear from someone who knows the unit.

About the battery size....I did some measuring and was considering buying #27's, there is room in the tray for the extra length BUT I was concerned about getting them in because you have the top step "in the way' of the opening and this may make it difficult to place the batteries on the tray.
I'll have to do some more measuring and be sure of the fit factor.
I want to put in the 'biggest' battery that will fit.

How did you get the 31's in the battery compartment??? I'm sure your compartment is under the entry steps, like mine. I will have to do some more measuring. Maybe if I put the battery in as 'small side down' and slide the rest in to the tray....I'll have to really explore this....I think this may be the solution.
Advise, please.

Also, maybe in the instruction case there will be an identification of the original battery.

I've already come to the conclusion that the 24's are failing/failed and need to be replaced.

I am travelling in my toad now and expect to get back to the batteries after New Year's.
Thanks for the reply.

Well, back in Florida after Christmas and my priority was to take care of the battery issue.

Hikerdogs.....took your advice and bought two #29's, deep cycle.
The batteries measured 13 inches and I had 14 inches clearance.
Both batteries were date code 1/17 and both had a standing voltage of 12.55 volts. Charged them up to 14 volts and installed them today. Perfect fit. My internal charging system when hooked up to shore power reads 13.5+ volts at the battery. OK with me.

Hikerdogs......on the wall of your previous 32V, there is a toggle switch which reads the voltage of the House and Engine battery. Even when my coach batteries were out, the switch would read 13.7V. Now, with the new batteries installed, it still reads 13.7V???? Actual voltage at the batteries is ~13.5v.
Any ideas what is going on here?
Advise, please. I don't know if I should trust this reading. My Engine battery is on an external Battery Minder at 13.4v actual at the battery and the wall readout is 13.4v. Good correlation, here.
Not so for the Coach batteries.

Thanks to all who took the time to advise me.
Now to enjoy some warm sun.....................................

[4x4van]

The display on the wall is reading the voltage of your "12vdc system", not the battery voltage, and since you are plugged in to shore power (right?), it is reading the charging voltage of your converter. Unplug (& let sit for 30 minutes or so) and you should see the same voltage on the display as you see at your batteries (give or take 0.1 vdc due to wire resistance).

[Hikerdogs]

Glad everything is up and working. As for the discrepancy between the meter reading and the actual battery voltage I would concur with 4X4van's explanation.

[wa8yxm]

Re-visiting this thread and re-reading the original post and some of the follow ups.

A pair of Group 24's at most is 150 amp hours.. proper charging is 45 amps max, charging faster will boil them quickly. (And read on)

A pair of Group 29's is just over 200 amp horus. Proper charging is about 60 Amps

A pair of GC-2 (Fit in the same tray as your 24s but taller) in series is 220 amp hours give or take 10.. They are also DEEP CYCLE batteries which means .. well read on. Again 60-70 Amps peak charging depending on the precise capacity..

Charging too fast will boil the batteries.. My original GC-2 I had to water 'em annually (DISTILLED WATER ONLY PLEASE) they were 215 AH.. I also added a few hundred AH of additional battery and after 9 years had to replace the originals and upped them to 230AH.. They have not needed watering since install in the spring of 2014,, nearly 3 years. Since I am using the same 80 amp converter but now charging over 500 (Roughly 550) amp hours of battery it is a slower charge so they do not boil.. Very happy by the way.

NOTE: as they age they need more frequent wattering.

Second: The type of converter.; Years ago there was one called a Magnetek 6300,, Well they sold out to Parallex and Parallex dropped that one in favor of the 7300 which is vastly superior. But the 6300 was noted for boiling batteries dry.. Why did it do this? IT DID NOT KNOW WHEN TO STOP and it had rather sloppy voltage regulation .

The 7300 is a single stage converter (Single stage either never totally fills the battery or does not know when to stop) but it has decent regulation so it is not as damaging to the battery.

My Progressive Dynamics Intella-power 9180 with wizard.. Well, that's the other end of the converter spectrum.. One of several deserving of the label "Best". It is a 3-stage plus converter that has the ability to fully charge the batteries and KNOWS WHEN TO STOP.

Finally my comment on DEEP CYCLE

Most Group-XX batteries are MARINE/deep cycle, these are really starting batteries for all practical purpose and should be kept at a higher state of charge. I'd say 60-70% minimum, Run them down much farther and they MIGHT recover, once,, but well.. Replacement is indicated.

DEEP CYCLE are designed to go down to 50% SOC before damage sets in and even taking them down lower.. I mean so low Lights do not and steps do not move,, Well there is a good chance they WILL recover,, I "Oppsed" mine several times over their 9 years.. Might have lasted longer without the OPPS but they still recovered.

That's why I Recommend the GC2

But I'm also guessing you have converter issues
Converters come in two flavors for this post.
Stand alone (Recommendation is the Progressive Dynamics 9200)
And Integrated (part of your power distribution panel) (The 4600 goes there, it replaces the electronics without the need to replace the entire panel)

Match the last two digits to your existing converter as close as you can

IE A parallex 7345 woudl be replaced by an XX45.

[winnie32v]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

Re-visiting this thread and re-reading the original post and some of the follow ups.

A pair of Group 24's at most is 150 amp hours.. proper charging is 45 amps max, charging faster will boil them quickly. (And read on)

A pair of Group 29's is just over 200 amp horus. Proper charging is about 60 Amps

A pair of GC-2 (Fit in the same tray as your 24s but taller) in series is 220 amp hours give or take 10.. They are also DEEP CYCLE batteries which means .. well read on. Again 60-70 Amps peak charging depending on the precise capacity..

Charging too fast will boil the batteries.. My original GC-2 I had to water 'em annually (DISTILLED WATER ONLY PLEASE) they were 215 AH.. I also added a few hundred AH of additional battery and after 9 years had to replace the originals and upped them to 230AH.. They have not needed watering since install in the spring of 2014,, nearly 3 years. Since I am using the same 80 amp converter but now charging over 500 (Roughly 550) amp hours of battery it is a slower charge so they do not boil.. Very happy by the way.

NOTE: as they age they need more frequent wattering.

Second: The type of converter.; Years ago there was one called a Magnetek 6300,, Well they sold out to Parallex and Parallex dropped that one in favor of the 7300 which is vastly superior. But the 6300 was noted for boiling batteries dry.. Why did it do this? IT DID NOT KNOW WHEN TO STOP and it had rather sloppy voltage regulation .

The 7300 is a single stage converter (Single stage either never totally fills the battery or does not know when to stop) but it has decent regulation so it is not as damaging to the battery.

My Progressive Dynamics Intella-power 9180 with wizard.. Well, that's the other end of the converter spectrum.. One of several deserving of the label "Best". It is a 3-stage plus converter that has the ability to fully charge the batteries and KNOWS WHEN TO STOP.

Finally my comment on DEEP CYCLE

Most Group-XX batteries are MARINE/deep cycle, these are really starting batteries for all practical purpose and should be kept at a higher state of charge. I'd say 60-70% minimum, Run them down much farther and they MIGHT recover, once,, but well.. Replacement is indicated.

DEEP CYCLE are designed to go down to 50% SOC before damage sets in and even taking them down lower.. I mean so low Lights do not and steps do not move,, Well there is a good chance they WILL recover,, I "Oppsed" mine several times over their 9 years.. Might have lasted longer without the OPPS but they still recovered.

That's why I Recommend the GC2

But I'm also guessing you have converter issues
Converters come in two flavors for this post.
Stand alone (Recommendation is the Progressive Dynamics 9200)
And Integrated (part of your power distribution panel) (The 4600 goes there, it replaces the electronics without the need to replace the entire panel)

Match the last two digits to your existing converter as close as you can

IE A parallex 7345 woudl be replaced by an XX45.

Thanks for the input.
1. The batteries that went "bad" were old and I believe that one or two cells in #one battery shorted out causing an overtemp issue which caused the cells to go dry AND caused the second battery to also 'go bad'. It was time to replace them..they were not giving me good service prior to the failure.

2. So, I believe that my charging system is ok, but will keep an eye on it.

3. I looked up my converter #: It is Magnatek 7445......what can you tell me about that?

Comment, please. Thanks for the time to advise me.

[winnie32v]

So far so good..................

Two #29 Deep Cycle Batteries have been installed.

Just checked the voltage with my meter and got 13.68.

My converter is set at 13.7v so I guess the charging system is working as it should by putting out this maintenance charge.

Will keep you advised as necessary,
Thanks to all...............................

[winnie32v]

Follow Up.......
Just returned from a winter in Florida:

* New Gp 29 Deep Cycle Batteries worked as expected

* Factory Charging System works as designed; 13.7v charging at batteries as designed when plugged into shore power.

* New Continuous Operating Solenoid works as designed; alternator charging Coach Batteries when engine is running.

* On NO external Power; new deep cycle batteries had plenty of reserve volts, as expected.

So, I am good for another trip to Fla next winter.

Thanks to all contributors.

[jazzerjump]

I have read this with interest as our batteries will probably need replacing before long. Our first MH purchase was a used 2004 Winni Sightseer. It had 2 Interstate DCM0100 AGM 12VDeep cycle batteries rated at 100 AH each for a total 200 AH. When we upgraded 2 years later to our 30T I had the batteries transferred also as the 30T had the marine type deep cycle batteries.

Only later did I finally find the location of the date code thanks to Interstate and discovered they were dated 2009. Well the 8 year old AGM have performed well this year once again. We have dry camped about 6 or 7 weeks on our 13 week adventure with no issues even though I have been concerned with the age of them.

The sightseer had a 45 amp 3 stage converter/charger and a 1 panel solar system but was unable to determine it's output. The 30T has 1-150W solar panel and a 1000W Magnum 4-stage inverter charger-actually goes to no charge when onshore power until batteries drop to 12.7 then go to float charge again for 4 hours then back to 0 charge.

The batteries are wheel chair batteries but about $300+ bucks apiece so expensive but require no maintenance which is really convenient.

Have been looking toward 6-amp to replace for a little more AH but the maintenance free sealed or AGM6 v are spendy also. If I go that route will have to settle for checking batteries frequently to save money.

Will have to ponder some more but after this trip with batteries I found were 8 years old we may decide that the added cost of the DCM0100 is worth it-will let you all know