Conversion of 12V to 6V Deep cycle, done, nice! - Page 2

GaDawgFan · 11-12-2011, 12:11 PM

I did the exact changeover on my 2000 Horizon. I also was convinced by someone on this board to also install a watering system. This has been a great decision as the height of the six volts makes it very difficult to remove the caps to check/add water. With the watering system I don't even have to slide the tray out. Money very well spent.

Oh, I also did not install tie downs as the batteries are very snug in the tray.

SCVJeff · 11-13-2011, 01:49 PM

Scott,

I just noticed you even color-coded your 6V battery jumpers, I thought I was the only one anal enough to do that. Hopefully we're a small club...

This is 4/0, and a LOT harder to work with. I had to pre-bend the cable in-place then crimp the lugs on, otherwise something this short simply wont make turns.

FIRE UP · 11-13-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCVJeff

Scott,

I just noticed you even color-coded your 6V battery jumpers, I thought I was the only one anal enough to do that. Hopefully we're a small club...

This is 4/0, and a LOT harder to work with. I had to pre-bend the cable in-place then crimp the lugs on, otherwise something this short simply wont make turns.

Jeff,
I cracked up reading this. I thought no one would notice my color coding. It's just something I did for myself. I used the #1 ga wire and although they were a tad stubborn in bending those "S-bends" , I won and they submitted to my sheer strength. As noted, it has some anti-vibration characteristics in the bend and, it's easy to judge for length when building those cables.

And to all others who've made nice comments on my install, thank you very much. The true test will be a weekend out in the out back and much use of them to see how the longevity plan works. Thanks again. And oh by the way, while installing that "auto watering system" would certainly aid in low maintenance intervals, I don't have too much of a problem getting to each of the cells, once every couple of months or as needed to keep up the water level. I've yet to have one of them run out of water. Thanks again for your suggestions though. Maybe someday I'll pick up one of those.
Scott

Journey39n · 11-14-2011, 02:34 AM

My question is, did you have to do anything to the charging side of the system with the change-over to the 6v batteries?

I have two 12v coach batteries, type 31. One is needing lots of water, and is warmer than the other, so I think it needs replacing. I have lots of room in the battery compartment, and am considering replacing the two 12v batteries with 2 6v golf cart batteries hooked up in series.

Just wondering if it is just a simple replacement of the batteries, or if more needs to be done to the circuit?

FIRE UP · 11-14-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journey39n

My question is, did you have to do anything to the charging side of the system with the change-over to the 6v batteries?

I have two 12v coach batteries, type 31. One is needing lots of water, and is warmer than the other, so I think it needs replacing. I have lots of room in the battery compartment, and am considering replacing the two 12v batteries with 2 6v golf cart batteries hooked up in series.

Just wondering if it is just a simple replacement of the batteries, or if more needs to be done to the circuit?

Journey 39N,
On my Dimensions 2000 watt inverter/charger, there is a switch on it that has the following positions:

A-----Sealed lead acid, more than 400 AH
B-----Sealed lead acid, less than 400 AH
C-----Wet lead acid, more than 400 AH
D-----Wet lead acid, less than 400 AH

I was thinking I'd have to change the position of the switch because of the changeover. Well, as it turns out, the switch was already on "C". Well, I can't remember what the total AH was on the previous (3) 12V marine/deep cycle batts were but, the total on the new (4) 6V GC batts is 460 AH. So, the switch remains in its present position. Hope this answers your question(s).
Scott

SCVJeff · 11-14-2011, 08:22 AM

I called the factory on this when I did mine because I wanted to know exactly what that switch did. They said all it controls when switching between wet cells is a charge timer, and at 464Ah rating of the new batteries, the suggested leaving it at LESS than 400. Saves water..

doorguy · 11-14-2011, 01:59 PM

FIRE UP. I am duly impressed, sir. I have the same set up(3 ea. 12V) in our 04 Journey 39K. Am going to switch to 6V pronto. Two questions: What are the amp hours on the Costco batts? I was looking a Trojan T-105's, 225 a.h. ea. they are pricey but I've used them several times before and no problems. Does anyone have any comments on Trojan's vs. Costco or other similar batteries?

FIRE UP · 11-14-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorguy

FIRE UP. I am duly impressed, sir. I have the same set up(3 ea. 12V) in our 04 Journey 39K. Am going to switch to 6V pronto. Two questions: What are the amp hours on the Costco batts? I was looking a Trojan T-105's, 225 a.h. ea. they are pricey but I've used them several times before and no problems. Does anyone have any comments on Trojan's vs. Costco or other similar batteries?

Doorguy,
Thank you for your nice comment. I like the Trojans, I had two sets in my previous coach, a 34' Bounder with the V-10. It came with a set of two 6V T-105s and when they wore out, I purchased two more for the price of $67.00 ea. in July of '05. Well, when they simply would not hold a charge for any length of time, I went to pick up another set but just about had a heart attack when they told me how much they'd gone up. The same exact batteries, 5 years later, were $135.00 EACH!!!!!!!!

So, I don't care how good they are in comparison to either Costcos or Sams Club units, I didn't even check on the price for the recent changeover. I simply went to Costco and picked up four of them. And, even then, I was a tad shocked because the last time I checked on them, about 3-4 months ago, they were $75.00 each. Well, when I put them in my cart, they're now $90.00 each. Things are going up all over. I suspect, with proper care, they will last a fair amount of time until they give up the ghost.

But, to answer your question, if I recall the info I looked up on them, they're very, very close to exact AH rating as the Trojans. I'm pretty sure they're either 220 or 230 AH units.
Scott

doorguy · 11-14-2011, 08:26 PM

Scott, I answered your post but I don't see it on there, so maybe I did something wrong. I was asking what the amp hours are of those Costco batteries? I went to our local Costco and they had none of those in stock, I will ask them tomorrow about it. Nice job, by the way.

doorguy · 11-14-2011, 08:31 PM

Scott, oops, I found my previous post. Thank you for the info, I will still check with Costco on their availability. $90 is still good; I can't find Trojans for less than $140 around here.

limandlin · 11-14-2011, 10:50 PM

I have a 2002 Journey DL 36GD with 3 12v batteries. I'd like to make the switch to 4 6v batteries but have some concern over the additional weight. Does anyone know what the weight limit is for the battery tray? I assume 4 6v's weigh more than the 3 12v's.

SCVJeff · 11-14-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limandlin

I have a 2002 Journey DL 36GD with 3 12v batteries. I'd like to make the switch to 4 6v batteries but have some concern over the additional weight. Does anyone know what the weight limit is for the battery tray? I assume 4 6v's weigh more than the 3 12v's.

Yep! I had the same concern, so I called Winne and ended up talking to one of their structural guys who agreed it was an excellent question that nobody had ever asked. BUT it was made by (a name I forgot.. (grrrr)). Anyway I called them and it took 3 weeks to respond, but they found the original drawings and said it's rated to carry, and (more important) cantilever 250lb.

But because I like my feet, anytime I pull the tray out I add a guide/ brace used for long boards in the saw just to help take the load.

FIRE UP · 11-15-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorguy

Scott, oops, I found my previous post. Thank you for the info, I will still check with Costco on their availability. $90 is still good; I can't find Trojans for less than $140 around here.

Doorguy,
That seems to be par for Costco. At least pertaining to those 6V GC batteries are concerned. I've been in there a few times and those were all gone. The next time, they had 20 of them on display. It's a hit or miss thing. Since we're not members of Sams Club, I don't know what their present price of their GC batteries are as of today so, the Costco ones were top pic for all the general reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limandlin

I have a 2002 Journey DL 36GD with 3 12v batteries. I'd like to make the switch to 4 6v batteries but have some concern over the additional weight. Does anyone know what the weight limit is for the battery tray? I assume 4 6v's weigh more than the 3 12v's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCVJeff

Yep! I had the same concern, so I called Winne and ended up talking to one of their structural guys who agreed it was an excellent question that nobody had ever asked. BUT it was made by (a name I forgot.. (grrrr)). Anyway I called them and it took 3 weeks to respond, but they found the original drawings and said it's rated to carry, and (more important) cantilever 250lb.

But because I like my feet, anytime I pull the tray out I add a guide/ brace used for long boards in the saw just to help take the load.

To both of you. While being a fireman for over 35 years, one of my alternate assignments for over 24 of them was to outfit new fire trucks prior to them being put into service. We built and set up hundreds of those types of drawers for various tools and equipment. Some of which carried an equal amount of weight and even more.

Now, based on that experience, and, the fact that the (3) 12V Deep Cycle Marine units that were in there previously, (SRM 429 Interstates) I was only going to add a small amount of extra weight. I was actually going to weigh one of the 12 units, multiply it times three, then weigh the Costco 6V and multiply it times four to get the actual weight difference between the changover. But, never got around to it.

Based on the material the drawer is made of, the style of construction, the framing the drawer is attached to and the method it's attached by, and the rollers (both size and dimensions of mounting bolt) and, the fact that the Horizon's got 44K miles on it presently and absolutely no signs of stress, wear, and or any form of damage by carrying the 12V units on our wonderful U.S. roads, it was an easy decision to allow the slightly more weight of the four 6V units.

Of the hundreds of sliding drawers we built over the years, we used only top quality drawer glides. Almost 100% of the time they were a brand called "Accuride". And, depending on the design need, many of them were 250 lb (rated) sets and full extension. We even did many drawers with 500 lb ratings on the glides.

Lets face it, you're not going to drive down the road with the batteries hanging out at full extension so, based on how well they were built in the first place, they'll hold up just fine. You only extend the drawer when it's maintenance time and yes, doing what one of you did for a "support" while in the out position, is a very nice secondary support. I commend you for that.
Scott

P.S. SCVJeff,
At least on my tray, there's a sticker on there that states the tray was made by "Kwikee", the same folks that made my door step and, sliding step cover by the passengers feet.

SCVJeff · 11-15-2011, 01:40 PM

Yep, Kwikee is the one. Thanks

NoMoreAZ · 11-15-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Doorguy,
P.S. SCVJeff,
At least on my tray, there's a sticker on there that states the tray was made by "Kwikee", the same folks that made my door step and, sliding step cover by the passengers feet.

I also have the battery tray(s) made by Kwikee. I have 4 Lifeline AGM GPL-4C 6 VDC at 220 Ah batteries at 66# each for the house. On Kwikee's web site (powergearus.com) there is a application guide chart for their battery trays. Max weight there is 230#.

So.. I have never had and weight problems in the 5.5 years I have had this configuration.

I do not know if my battery tray is listed in Kwikee's guide beacuse I do not have a cross reference between 'Bago's P/N and Kwikee's P/N. My tray (and your's and Jeff's) sure looks stronger than the pix on the Kwikee appl. drawing. The trays from 5-6 years ago may not be made anymore.

I have had the batteries in and out a few times for close inspection, cleaning, and when DW and I replaced the 1/0 cable that came with the coach with 4/0 cable when I dumped the 'Demented' Inverter for a Xantrex RS2000. Nothing amiss noted regarding the tray.

SCVJeff · 11-15-2011, 03:41 PM

It's a different tray (at least it was at the time). It's a Winnie OEM

FIRE UP · 11-19-2011, 01:52 PM

Gents,
My problem is, there's almost no physical way of getting the tray out for a qood quality refurbish on the finish. Or, if I wanted to clean up the battery cable are behind that tray. I've posted and asked on how it's done but, it appears that the install of these trays is not consecutive throughout the industry or, even throughout Winnebago/Itasca.

On one of the replies to my inquiry, it was sent back to be that the way to remove them was to use an Allen wrench for the bolts that are holding the bearings/rollers. Well, there's certainly no Allen hole in any of those bolt heads. There is however, access holes in the rails and the sides of the battery tray but, there is no way of holding the bolt heads while you're turning, or attempting to turn the nut, on the bearing/roller side.

Talk about a numb skull install. What were they thinking?

I mean, if that tray cracks, a roller or set of rollers goes bad, a bolt breaks that holds the rollers/bearings in place, how in the world are you supposed to get that tray out for repair?

I feel I'm pretty savi in figuring things out and have done lots of fabrication over the years but, this amazes me. It's like they built the tray, installed it in the sub frame and then, placed the body of the coach over all of it. Hmmmmmmm.
Scott

SCVJeff · 11-20-2011, 12:26 AM

Well we better be sure those bearings are well greased eh?

For refinishing, I just did mine when the batteries were out. It came out nice

Journey39n · 11-20-2011, 02:42 AM

I had a 2003 Horizon with the Kiwkee slideout battery trays. When I replaced the coach batteries, I removed the top slideout tray and re-finished it. What I had to do was unbolt the tray from the cross bar supports under the tray.

You accessed the bolts (8) via the holes through the tray floor. Yours may be different, but it seemed like a standard arrangement.

FIRE UP · 11-20-2011, 02:02 PM

Journey39M,
Yes Sir, that tray is fairly different from the later models. The newer ones don't have the lock arms protruding from each side like the ones in your picture. They have a single "lift bar" that locks in spring loaded catches on each side. And, there is no access holes in the bottom of the tray. There are access holes in the sides of the tray and, yes you can get to those roller/bearing bolts but, like I stated, there is no slot for a straight screw driver, Phillips for a Phillips driver, or Allen socket for an Allen wrench.

I have no idea how to hold those bolts while trying to turn the nuts. It's a flush type head and you most certainly can't get any form of pliers through that access hole to try and grab onto the slim headed bolt. I'll figure it out sooner or later.
Scott