Can I safely use a toaster from my batteries?

as000ll · 06-03-2017, 09:04 AM

Hello,

We just bought a new 2017 Winnebago View. We find that the generator is very noisy (for us and our neighbors) so we try not to use it. I wonder if I can use a toaster from my coach batteries.

My understanding is (I really have little experience with this) that the coach has 2 Napa batteries which is supposed to give me a total of around 50 aH. I read that I should not let the charge go under 50%. Can I then assume that I can use roughly 75 aH?

My toaster is supposed to use 750 W. So roughly, 75 aH. Let's say 90 aH to compensate for the the loss from the inverter. Can I assume that a 20 minute usage of the toaster will only draw 30 aH from the batteries?

I hesitate to test it in real life since I've been told that I could kill my batteries if I'm wrong.

Sbrownstein · 06-03-2017, 09:29 AM

The math is close, somewhere between 20 and 30 AH depending in inverter efficiency. You will be drawing more than 60 amps so make sure your connections are good and heavy gauge.

Can't say the same for your capacity calculations. I would suspect that if you have 2 12 volt batteries you have around 200 AH total capacity. At 50% that would be 100 AH.

If they are 6 volt connected in series you should have about the same or 200 AH, again 50% of that would be...100AH.

pcurt23 · 06-03-2017, 10:06 AM

The short answer is no. The house batteries are not made for that type of operation and you could damage them. You could also damage your toaster with undervoltage if it has electronic controls. There are rigs that can operate high power draw equipment but they are way more sophisticated than mine or yours. Think Prevost class or similar.

Brownstein has a good description of battery power.

Sbrownstein · 06-03-2017, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcurt23

The short answer is no...

Not sure that I agree since it does have a permanently installed 1000 watt inverter. Now that could be surge rating or continuous. You probably have the amps and the wiring...but that is a lot of AH for some toast!!!!

twinboat · 06-03-2017, 10:57 AM

Inverters do not output low voltage, they shut down. Read the owners manual.

If the inverter doesn't shut down due to overload or low voltage, you can do it.

If you have a 1000 watt inverter it should be wired for, at minimum, 1000 watts of output. If it's under wired it will shut down.
There is no risk here, try it.

It's about 13 AH for 10 minutes of toasting at 800 watts. 10 minutes is a lot of toast.

A typical GP24, 12 volt battery will have about 75 AH, giving you a total of 150. You can draw out 80%, 120 AH, without damaging them. They just last half as long as drawing them down to 50%.
Buy more now, or more often. Your choice.

mrt_1111 · 06-03-2017, 12:37 PM

If you must have toast https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Z10HMG...a-304995852150

noserider · 06-03-2017, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrt_1111

If you must have toast https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Z10HMG...a-304995852150

LOL.

98FPA · 06-03-2017, 01:00 PM

Better yet is the Camp-A-Toaster. https://www.amazon.com/Camp-A-Toaste...camp-a-toaster This toaster is absolutely amazing!

powercat_ras · 06-03-2017, 02:17 PM

Your View has a 1000 Watt Inverter. Get a Toaster, enjoy your toast in the morning ! I do in my Vista !

I have a inexpensive Proctor-Silex 2 Slice Toaster from Walmart. It uses 780 Watts AC. Runs fine from your 1000 Watt Inverter. Be sure to use as short as possible 14 Gauge Extension cord from an inverter fed outlet to your toaster if need be. The DC to AC inverter draws 75 Amps for 135 seconds to make 2 slices of golden brown toast with this particular cheap toaster. This is only 3 Amp-hours. Your View has 2 deep-cycle Group 24 coach batteries, so delivering 75 amps DC to the inverter for 135 seconds without hitting the low voltage inverter threshold should not be a problem.

as000ll · 06-04-2017, 07:53 AM

Oups... Not a total of around 50 aH, but 150 aH. Typo...

as000ll · 06-04-2017, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein

Can't say the same for your capacity calculations. I would suspect that if you have 2 12 volt batteries you have around 200 AH total capacity. At 50% that would be 100 AH.

You are right. Instead of typing 150 aH, I typed 50 aH. I have 2 Group 24 batteries.

luvlabs · 06-05-2017, 10:01 AM

While you think your generator may be noisy, it really isn't. It meets the US Forest Service noise limits. This applies to both the diesel and propane models used on View/Navion models.

You can try the inverter, there are enough electrical protections built in that really won't damage anything. I would use the generator personally. It needs to be run otherwise you will have a costly and heavy piece of iron sitting there.

dnystrom · 06-07-2017, 11:08 PM

Use that Genny. Or use the stove with a toaster 4 slice. Buy it at Walmart.

sajohnson · 10-11-2017, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by as000ll

Hello,

We just bought a new 2017 Winnebago View. We find that the generator is very noisy (for us and our neighbors) so we try not to use it. I wonder if I can use a toaster from my coach batteries.

My understanding is (I really have little experience with this) that the coach has 2 Napa batteries which is supposed to give me a total of around 50 aH. I read that I should not let the charge go under 50%. Can I then assume that I can use roughly 75 aH?

My toaster is supposed to use 750 W. So roughly, 75 aH. Let's say 90 aH to compensate for the the loss from the inverter. Can I assume that a 20 minute usage of the toaster will only draw 30 aH from the batteries?

I hesitate to test it in real life since I've been told that I could kill my batteries if I'm wrong.

We have an aftermarket inverter/charger -- a Magnum Energy MS2000. We bought it for several reasons, one of which you mentioned -- the factory genset is relatively loud. We don't mind it too much but we do not want to bother others, or attract unwanted attention. Most campgrounds have noise/generator restrictions, and running them can be inappropriate elsewhere.

The MS2000 is a 2,000 watt continuous pure sine wave (PSW) inverter, with a 'smart' programmable charger built in. It has no problem running the microwave, a coffee maker, or a toaster.

If the stock WGO inverter is rated 1,000 watts continuous it should be able to run a toaster. It sounds like the WGO inverter is a modified sine wave (MSW) type, so it might damage certain devices (like chargers for electronics) but a toaster will run just fine -- assuming the 12Vdc wiring from the coach batteries to the inverter is large enough to minimize voltage drop.

WGO has a habit of using undersize wiring. For example, the 12V outlet in our dinette will not even run a small inverter with a modest load. Contrast that with the 12V/25A outlet up in the cab that ran a 375W inverter with a 250W load.

Anyway, it should work fine, assuming the inverter can actually put out 1,000W and the wiring is up to the task. If the voltage drops, the inverter will just turn off, no harm done.

Try it.

Clay L · 10-12-2017, 11:02 AM

I don't eat toast made in a toaster. The best toast is made in the oven. Put the butter on the bread, put it in the oven until it's brown.

as000ll · 10-13-2017, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sajohnson

We have an aftermarket inverter/charger -- a Magnum Energy MS2000. We bought it for several reasons, one of which you mentioned -- the factory genset is relatively loud. We don't mind it too much but we do not want to bother others, or attract unwanted attention. Most campgrounds have noise/generator restrictions, and running them can be inappropriate elsewhere.

The MS2000 is a 2,000 watt continuous pure sine wave (PSW) inverter, with a 'smart' programmable charger built in. It has no problem running the microwave, a coffee maker, or a toaster.

If the stock WGO inverter is rated 1,000 watts continuous it should be able to run a toaster. It sounds like the WGO inverter is a modified sine wave (MSW) type, so it might damage certain devices (like chargers for electronics) but a toaster will run just fine -- assuming the 12Vdc wiring from the coach batteries to the inverter is large enough to minimize voltage drop.

WGO has a habit of using undersize wiring. For example, the 12V outlet in our dinette will not even run a small inverter with a modest load. Contrast that with the 12V/25A outlet up in the cab that ran a 375W inverter with a 250W load.

Anyway, it should work fine, assuming the inverter can actually put out 1,000W and the wiring is up to the task. If the voltage drops, the inverter will just turn off, no harm done.

Try it.

I tried it and it worked really well. The only thing though and it was (and still is) my biggest concern: during the second consecutive usage of the toaster, the voltage reading dropped to 12.1V (even 11.9 for a few seconds) and it went back to 12.3V when I was finished. I read that I should not let my batteries go lower than 12.2V if I want them to last in the long run. Can this kind of usage harm the batteries in the long run?

powercat_ras · 10-13-2017, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by as000ll

I tried it and it worked really well. The only thing though and it was (and still is) my biggest concern: during the second consecutive usage of the toaster, the voltage reading dropped to 12.1V (even 11.9 for a few seconds) and it went back to 12.3V when I was finished. I read that I should not let my batteries go lower than 12.2V if I want them to last in the long run. Can this kind of usage harm the batteries in the long run?

Making toast off the inverter once or twice a day? No.

The voltage drop when doing large current draw from the inverter is normal, in particular for the NAPA RV/Marine lead acid batteries that Winnebago uses at the factory on the lower cost coaches like the View and Vista. When your batteries wear out and need to be replaced in 3-4 years be sure not replace with the same kind but replace with Deep Cycle batteries. They will perform better.

al1florida · 10-14-2017, 08:29 AM

A major concern that no one seemed to address is: "How are you recharging the batteries"? So much of the time folks seem to forget the batteries need to be recharged If left at a partial charge level it really reduces the life of the battery. More on that farther down.

Using a two slice toaster will use some of your battery capacity. The inverter should not have a problem powering the toaster.

However, now that you used some of your battery, then tomorrow you use more, pretty soon you are down to 50% or maybe 80% discharged. Especially if you ran your furnace quite a bit because it was cold outside. [If you have 200 watts of solar (better yet 300 watts) and have good sunshine for 6 hours of mid day, you are good to go.]

Running a battery down to 50% cuts the life of a battery in half compared to only using 25% of the capacity, Go down to 80% discharged and you get 1/4 to 1/3 the life of the battery. Trojan has a life cycle chart for their deep cycle batteries. Use 25% of the battery and you get about 3000 discharge/charge cycles. Use 50% and you get about 1500 cycles. Us 75-80% and you get around 700 cycles. With a marine/deep cycle battery the figures are probably more like 2000/1000/500 respectively for the 25%/50%/80%.

Additionally if you don't get your batteries back up to 100% every 4-7 days you reduce the life of your batteries significantly. If you run your batteries down to 50% and recharge with the generator you are looking at 8-10 hours to get the batteries back to 100%. The reason is the last 15% of the charge goes really slow. The charge amps typically drop to 5 or 6 at the 85% full level, dropping to 3 or so at 10% and going on down to 2 and lower as you approach 100%.

You can use the voltage level of your battery as a guesstimate as to the level of charge. However if the batteries had a significant load on them (toaster) the batteries needs to be left at a no load level for 15-30 minutes to stabilize. No load means only about 2-3 amps of discharge. If you ran your generator or connected to shore power you batteries will get a surface charge. If the batteries have been charged, either let them sit for a couple of hours, or turn on 1 or 2 incandescent light bulbs for 30 minutes to an hour and then check the voltage.

If you are going to do quite a bit of dry camping or boondocking you need to install a battery monitor, such as a Trimetric which tracks the number of amp hours (AH) being discharged and when being charged. It also shows an accurate percentage of the state of charge of the battery.
Here are links to two very informative articles about the basics of RV electrical, batteries and solar:
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
The 12volt Side of Life Part 2

NeilV · 10-15-2017, 07:27 AM

I use the stove top toaster or even better a cast iron pan. Many times I will fire up a Coleman Stove or Aussie Grill and do it outside unless its cold out and I want the heat from cooking inside the coach.

If you run your batteries low and do not recharge them shortly afterwards you will damage them to a degree and eventually the accumulated damage from sulfating, etc will cause them to die an early death.