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Old 11-16-2019, 10:28 AM   #1
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Battle Born 100 AH lithium battery teardown



For every one of us that wants to know what's inside. Apparently, the guy had also torn down other lithium batteries, but I have yet to watch those videos.

Recommended for anyone considering LiFePO batteries.
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Old 11-16-2019, 02:41 PM   #2
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Yeah, I saw that today. Pretty impressive. Especially if you've seen the other cheaper Chinese batteries he's torn down in the past few weeks.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:45 AM   #3
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One dangerous option

Plenty of scary but true facts on the lithium batteries , by the guy who invented them . Was amazed to hear Dr Goodenough bash his own invention, talking about how absolutely crazy it is for Tesla to use that technology.
Absolutely cost prohibitive , and potentially dangerous . was comparing
His Solid State , salt water, sodium batteries , which go 15,000 cycles instead of 500. Get stronger with age, and are not flammable . Here is a link to Solid State batteries

https://youtu.be/kR8CESrigEg
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:13 AM   #4
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https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/arti...-overview.html
LiFePO4 (also known as Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are a huge improvement over lead acid in weight, capacity and shelf life. The LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of Lithium batteries as they will not overheat, and even if punctured they will not catch on fire. The cathode material in LiFePO4 batteries is not hazardous, and so poses no negative health hazards or environmental hazards. Due to the oxygen being bonded tightly to the molecule, there is no danger of the battery erupting into flames like there is with Lithium-Ion. The chemistry is so stable that LiFePO4 batteries will accept a charge from a lead-acid configured battery charger. Though less energy-dense than the Lithium-Ion and Lithium Polymer, Iron and Phosphate are abundant and cheaper to extract so costs are much more reasonable. LiFePO4 life expectancy is approximately 5-7 years.
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:14 AM   #5
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Lithium iron phosphate battery

There are plenty of non-scary facts about Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePO4) as well.

1. The life charge/discharge cycles number greater than 5000 cycles.
2. The power coming out of the battery is usable down to 20% or less of full capacity.
3. The batteries can be recharged at the same rate throughout the charge cycle.
4. The cost vs life cycles tips towards Lithium depending how you abuse them.
5. The LiFePO4 batteries are light enough for this 74 YO guy to lift.



The benefits of Lithium for boondockers far outweighs the very small chance of a dendrite short. If you live in the vicinity of 30A or 50A stick with wet cell lead acid and never ever discharge the LA battery more than 50% or let the water go down to the plates.


Dr. Goodenough is a very smart guy that is for sure and is always searching for the next quantum leap in battery technology. The so called solid state battery may be that leap forward but can I buy a SS car battery now?
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:18 AM   #6
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In the Dr. Goodenough video he states, as a fact, that Tesla battery packs have to be replaced every 2 years. EXCEPT, that's not been shown to be the case at all. In fact, there are no reports of Tesla owners having to replace worn out batteries.

That video was made in 2017 and according to him we should be seeing tens of thousands of mad Tesla owners being forced to spend $28,000 for new battery packs and that just has not happened.

Very smart man. With huge amounts of knowledge. He knows the downsides and the upsides but admits in the video he doesn't keep up with the real world applications of these batteries.

I'm sure we've all noticed that there are always a few folks that post "sky falling" warnings on forums whenever the LiPo4 topic is mentioned. Time will tell. But so far, the sky is still blue.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:26 AM   #7
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Well, I just bought two of the battle borne batteries for my 2018 Navion 24D (cyber Monday pricing of $830 each which includes shipping and tax- too good to pass up. More to follow. Apparently the Zamp solar charger needs to be switched to the “AGM” mode- other than that, they are a drop-in replacement.
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Old 12-06-2019, 10:42 PM   #8
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Well:
100Ah LiFePO4 Battery 12V Battle Born
Life span: +/- 15 years
Dimensions: 11 x 8 x 11
Weight 31lbs
Price $1000

100Ah AGM Battery 12V Varta
Life span: +/- 8 years
Dimensions: 140 x 69 x 75
Weight 45lbs
Price $250

Needed Ah for our RV: 1000Ah
Investment over 15 years (life span of our RV)
LiFePO4: $10000 + Maintenance time 2hrs
AGM: $5000 + Maintenance time 30hrs
Impact on the payload:
LiFePO4: 310lbs
AGM: 450lbs
Difference 140lbs
Impact on storage space: none (no additional space is neither needed nor given due the battery compartment cannot be used otherwise).
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:01 AM   #9
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Actually, the BB LI batteries were $835 each (cyber Monday price). Also, the depth of discharge thing needs to be considered as the LI batteries can go down to 20% discharge (so a lot more available power). After 10 years the LI batteries will have lost about 20% capacity- so still lot of life left (We’ll see I guess). It was the available power and low maintenance I was going for.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:44 AM   #10
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Well there is one points to add:
Do we risk the strange circumstance that the life span of our coach is limited by the house batteries? "Should I look for a new RV now because the house batteries I bought 10 years ago are still good and I can get a better price for it. Otherwise I would have to do a big investment in new batteries..."... A kind of philosophic bug... but just think about it. Not anymore the engine, or the rust, or a better design or more power... it's the house battery. It's like you sell your coach because you might need some new tires.... If I look to some Tesla cars: thrown away after 5-6 years due to bad batteries.... What a waste of energy and (also human) resources.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:06 AM   #11
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For grins and because I love following the topic of battery development I believe we could really see solid plate salt LI batteries with an incredible lifespan come to life. It might take someone like Elon M.

Model 3 drive unit & body is designed like a commercial truck for a million mile life. Current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules (not pack) will only cost $5k to $7k.
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 13, 2019
There have been many such "rantings" but the man is not without product and visions have been turned into real things. As long as we have the capacity to think we can continue to improve our tech. Now I sincerely hope the battery performance is better than the shatterproof window glass.
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Old 12-07-2019, 09:00 AM   #12
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Ck_calva,

First Varta is an international brand that’s not really available here. I know of no 100ah AGMs that weigh less than 60lbs ea. Most are closer to 70+lbs each. So 10 of those are likely to weigh twice as much as the LiPo battery.

And as been pointed out, 10-100ah AGMs provide ~500ah of usable power without dramatically lowering their lifespan. Which would actually compare with approximately 6-100ah LiPo batteries.

So half the weight, twice the lifespan and 2.5 to 3 times the cost for the LiPo vs. AGM comparison.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:11 PM   #13
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CJ Calva: Data is in the eyes of the beholder and interpretation. In 12 years of sailboating I replaced batteries 3 times. I admit life as a sailboater is a bit rougher on batteries but I did take care of them pretty good and never remember discharging them beyond 50%. In my Class A, life I have replaced batteries once every 5 years. In both scenarios, I have had to run the generator long times to get anywhere near 95% charge levels. I applaud you upon your extended life during use of lead acid batteries. As for me, I will go to LiFePO4 ( or whatever technology produces higher energy densities ) when my LA house batteries degrade in 4 years or so.
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