Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-20-2016, 11:46 AM   #1
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
All batteries die in storage - 2006 Outlook Class C

Second time it's happened. Ford E-450 chassis. We are not the original owners, we have had her for a year now. In that year we have taken four months worth of trips and have never had an electrical problem on the road.

Everything was in good working order two months ago when we put "Squeaky" into storage. Not wanting to risk draining the batteries again, we took special pains to make sure everything was off. Made sure the coach batteries were off, that the radio was off and that the engine battery was disconnected from the coach via the Auxiliary Battery Switch.

We stopped in on her today, just to make sure the vents were open, when we discovered that everything electrical was dead as a door nail. No ignition, no horn, no coach anything.

Two things seem odd. First, there must be something connecting the engine battery to the coach batteries, even the disconnect switch is in the off position. Second, there is some unknown drain either in the engine/cockpit side of the MH or in the coach side.

Come to think of it, when we purchased this rig last hear we had to replace the engine battery, the previous owner was using the Battery Boost switch (which engages the coach batteries) to start the engine. He must have suffered the same condition and it sulfated his engine battery.

I am well aware that completely draining a lead-acid battery is very bad for it, especially if left uncharged for any period of time. For now, I'm going to pull all the batteries and get them on a charger. I am hopeful they are not shot.

Anyone know where I should start looking the culprit?
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 12:14 PM   #2
Winnebago Master
 
Tom N's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA
Posts: 1,196
Rather than turning switches off, remove the negative cable from all batteries.
__________________
Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · FMCA 335149 · W3TLN
2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tom N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 12:19 PM   #3
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 30
You need a battery disconnect. These units are part house, part car, it's darn near impossible to get all the parasitic draw off of them without a disconnect. The other alternative is to put them on a charger and do what you did - minimize active use of anything electrical.
cb1000rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 02:35 PM   #4
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom N View Post
Rather than turning switches off, remove the negative cable from all batteries.
The engineer and technician in me says fix it the way it was intended.

The retired duffer in me says make it work and get on with it.

So, I'm not going to make a quest to make it right and next time we store it we'll pull the negative cables.
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2016, 02:58 PM   #5
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 200
You say you disconnected the engine battery via the Auxiliary battery switch.

That switch should only disconnect the house ( auxiliary ) battery.

My E450 battery has no disconnect. It is factory wired as a E450 cutaway chassis.

The MH manufacture added the boost cables and solenoid to the house batteries, with breakers.

The start battery is still connected directly to the starter, as built.

To see if yours is the same, turn off the aux switch, and try to start the engine. If it starts, you need a main battery disconnect or remove the cable.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 06:58 AM   #6
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
You say you disconnected the engine battery via the Auxiliary battery switch.

To see if yours is the same, turn off the aux switch, and try to start the engine. If it starts, you need a main battery disconnect or remove the cable.
My error. It doesn't start start off the coach batteries unless the Battery Boost Switch, located on the lower left dashboard is pushed and the Aux Battery switch is ON.

From the owner's manual:
. Turn off the Auxiliary Battery switch to avoid
parasitic discharge (the trickle discharge
caused by directly connected components like
LP gas detectors or digital clock displays, etc.)
We took special care to do this when we put it into storage, but something still drained all the batteries. So, I guess we'll just opt to disconnect the negative cable(s) when we pit into storage.
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 09:11 AM   #7
Winnebago Master
 
bobmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 562
You need to disconnect the negative lead on your chassis batteries. The steps are connected to that battery and the engine has a small but significant parasitic draw that you cannot stop. Mine would deplete the chassis battery in 2-3 weeks from the fully charged stateedGood luck,
__________________
Bob
09 Journey 39Z
Southern Ontario
bobmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 09:46 AM   #8
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
So turn off the Aux Battery switch, which disconnects the 2 house batteries, and disconnect JUST the negative terminal on the car battery to eliminate the micro drainage to stuff like the stairs. Right?
thebignewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 09:57 AM   #9
Winnebago Master
 
bobmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post
So turn off the Aux Battery switch, which disconnects the 2 house batteries, and disconnect JUST the negative terminal on the car battery to eliminate the micro drainage to stuff like the stairs. Right?
That should do it assuming there are no parasitic draws on the house batteries. Best thing to do is to monitor the house battery voltage for any significant drop. Alternatively, if you have a meter, you could turn the house off and disconnect the negative lead and connect your meter between the lead and battery ground to determine if any current is flowing. I would go that far only if the battery is draining significantly. Check after turning off, to see if anything still has power and if you cant find anything (detectors, etc.), then you likely have won! Good luck,
__________________
Bob
09 Journey 39Z
Southern Ontario
bobmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 11:53 AM   #10
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 17
Is there a battery voltage gauge in the coach, so you can see if it's draining when you shut it off periodically? I would think there would be so you can turn on the generator.
thebignewt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 11:48 PM   #11
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38
Our chassis battery would go dead after about three weeks of sitting. I at first tried using a solar charger to keep the battery up. It helped but i found that it still wasn't enough to keep the battery topped off. After years of fighting this, i finally ended up installing a battery disconnect switch next to the battery. Haven't had any trouble since..
Mudfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 06:14 AM   #12
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebignewt View Post
Is there a battery voltage gauge in the coach, so you can see if it's draining when you shut it off periodically? I would think there would be so you can turn on the generator.
No - no voltage gauge.
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 06:15 AM   #13
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudfrog View Post
Our chassis battery would go dead after about three weeks of sitting. I at first tried using a solar charger to keep the battery up. It helped but i found that it still wasn't enough to keep the battery topped off. After years of fighting this, i finally ended up installing a battery disconnect switch next to the battery. Haven't had any trouble since..
I'll look into a battery disconnect, but for our purposes I think just disconnecting the negative terminals will do the trick effectively and inexpensively.
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 08:18 AM   #14
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Found an excellent video for locating parasitic drains on your battery. It shows an automobile, but the principles are the same.

MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 10:05 AM   #15
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphyMan View Post
I'll look into a battery disconnect, but for our purposes I think just disconnecting the negative terminals will do the trick effectively and inexpensively.
I did that a time or two but it was more of a pain than i wanted to keep going through. Got to studying the battery's location and found that there was plenty of room for a disconnect right next to the battery. The disconnect and jumper were inexpensive and have made things much easier. Just insert the plastic key and turn on. It has also served as a theft deterrent.

The only drawback i've found, having to set the radio's clock and station buttons.
Mudfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 10:37 AM   #16
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 151
You are dealing with an unobtanium. All batteries self discharge. The rate depends on the chemistry. The last number I recall was 17% for flooded lead acid batteries. That alone is enough to draw your batteries down in 4 months even with all cables off. Switch to AGM's and the number drops significantly. I'd rather put the money in a small solar panel battery maintainer for each battery setup if I could not plug in.

FWIW I will echo that there is no chassis battery disconnect and a lot of nuisance in disconnecting the chassis. Ford wants some things to stay powered. Small draw but over a long time it accelerates the self discharge.

FWIW2 I don't think there is much parasitic draw in modern house systems in small units. All they need is a power tap to the storage switch so the switch can supply power to toggle the disconnect relay. The rest of the time it is off. Self discharge is more than enough to flatten the batteries by themselves. I would also not say that about the larger class A units that have a BIRD or similar and a lot more automatic power management. Those systems impose additional loads.
nothermark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2016, 10:58 AM   #17
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark View Post
You are dealing with an unobtanium. All batteries self discharge. The rate depends on the chemistry. The last number I recall was 17% for flooded lead acid batteries. That alone is enough to draw your batteries down in 4 months even with all cables off. Switch to AGM's and the number drops significantly. I'd rather put the money in a small solar panel battery maintainer for each battery setup if I could not plug in.

FWIW I will echo that there is no chassis battery disconnect and a lot of nuisance in disconnecting the chassis. Ford wants some things to stay powered. Small draw but over a long time it accelerates the self discharge.

FWIW2 I don't think there is much parasitic draw in modern house systems in small units. All they need is a power tap to the storage switch so the switch can supply power to toggle the disconnect relay. The rest of the time it is off. Self discharge is more than enough to flatten the batteries by themselves. I would also not say that about the larger class A units that have a BIRD or similar and a lot more automatic power management. Those systems impose additional loads.
I have the Workhorse and yes, i had wondered whether if it was bad to disconnect and keep power from the electronics, especially for longer periods of time. Hopefully i'm not causing any issues by disconnecting 12 volt power once a month.

I actually tried using a solar charger at first. I believe my main problem was that the run of wire from the panel to the battery was a bit long (didn't have any good options to alleviate this). Battery voltage did show an increase with solar hooked to it but it wasn't as high as it needed to be. If i remember correctly, right at 13 volts with the sun hitting the panel directly. With the trees around, it didn't get full view of the sun as much as it needed, It did help but it just couldn't keep up with the drain...
Mudfrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 04:12 AM   #18
Winnebago Watcher
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphyMan View Post
Found an excellent video for locating parasitic drains on your battery. It shows an automobile, but the principles are the same.
I really appreciate you posting that video, MurphyMan! I have what appears to be a grounding short in my old Winnebago that killed my chassis battery in under 5 days. I knew there was a test for this, but for the life of me I couldn't remember the procedure.

And thank you from the wife and daughter! Trip can now proceed as planned!
__________________
1973 Winnebago Indian 27'
Dodge M375 chassis, 413 ci gas
soundwve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 12:24 PM   #19
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 42
Solution Update: We ultimately went for the disconnect the chassis and coach batteries method and haven't had any trouble since. I installed a couple of disconnects and that works really great because you keep a tight battery connection all the time, but it's easy to disconnect.

Go to Amazon and search for Top Post Battery Master Disconnect Switch.
MurphyMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 10:28 PM   #20
Winnie-Wise
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 343
There is a lot of parasite drain on your engine battery. Install a BEP Marine Disconnect Switch. When back in storage, simply turn the knob 90 degrees and all power is cut-off from the battery. I had a problem with my battery being dead if not run every 30-40 days. Easy to install, no fuss to disconnect and reconnect a battery cable, and I haven't had a dead battery issue since doing this some years back. -RT
__________________
Ricardo Tegarini
2005 Itasca Sunova
Workhorse Chassis W20
RTegarini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries, storage, class c


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Closing in on a 2006 Winne Outlook, 26ft. MurphyMan Winnebago Class C Motorhomes 6 05-23-2015 09:50 PM
Goodbye class C, c'mon class A ghostrider General Maintenance and Repair 7 07-28-2009 08:06 AM
2006 Outlook battery problem cojo Electrical | Charging, Solar and Electronics 9 07-28-2006 10:09 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.