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Old 03-24-2005, 02:31 PM   #1
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Well, Here we go again! The engine AC is blowing warm again. We had the condensor and a valve replaced 1.5 to 2 years ago now we seam to be out of juice/gas. I went to Wal-mart and they have about 12 options to use for refilling. Has anyone refilled their own? I'm comfortable with the fact that it's "the nature of the beast". But I would like to refill it myself without waiting for an appointment at some Winnebago dealer where they will tell me again, "nothing we can find wrong, Filled it with dye so if it does leak we can find out where", RIGHT! It doesn't work when it gets wet when it rains out!

Thanks
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Old 03-24-2005, 02:31 PM   #2
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Well, Here we go again! The engine AC is blowing warm again. We had the condensor and a valve replaced 1.5 to 2 years ago now we seam to be out of juice/gas. I went to Wal-mart and they have about 12 options to use for refilling. Has anyone refilled their own? I'm comfortable with the fact that it's "the nature of the beast". But I would like to refill it myself without waiting for an appointment at some Winnebago dealer where they will tell me again, "nothing we can find wrong, Filled it with dye so if it does leak we can find out where", RIGHT! It doesn't work when it gets wet when it rains out!

Thanks
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Old 03-24-2005, 03:41 PM   #3
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Ed,

If you are talking about dash air, check the suction side of the AC compressor (one tube out of the compressor will be rather hot, the other side very cold and condensing moisture if properly working). It should be very cold to the touch and moist with the AC on and engine running around 1,000 rpm. If the suction side is not cold to the touch, then the freon is low for whatever reason ( a leak somewhere.) It is not a big deal to add a little freon. There will be service fitting somewhere and I'm sorry I don't have a clue of where it would be on your coach. It should look like large tire valve stem caps. You will unscrew this cap to access the service fitting. NOTE: You charge from the SUCTION side!!!!! If you can't figure out the difference, then take it to a Workhorse dealer!

If you are okay so far, buy a recharge kit that will have the hose to connect from the can to the service fitting and hopefully a few instructions particular to the kit.

If you don't use gauges, add freon until the suction side of the compressor tubing feels very cold to the touch. It will be rather sudden and very noticable. At that point STOP.

Always fill with the freon can upright (fill with gas, not liquid.) If the dash air is cool but not cold, maybe it will take a can or two to get the thing cold. If it is a more catastrophic leak or failure, then who knows?

Good luck,

John
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Old 03-24-2005, 04:13 PM   #4
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Thanks John,
I know others that have WH 8.1 and some have had theirs recharged once a year. I think I have the right cap it's right in the front a blue one. I did notice the larger tube was very hot but the other was on the side of warm/cool, no where near cold!
They have several types even one with a guage but don't know how much or what the guage should read.. Not anywhere in the books I have. I'll have to take another trip over there tomorrow. They also make one with a leak stop.

Thanks for the feedback
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:42 PM   #5
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Ed,

It sounds like the tubing that is NOT hot is your suction side and the blue cap sounds right. If you are way low on freon, the suction side tubing will assume the temperature of the surrounding metal mass so it might feel warm (but NOT hot.)

It has been years since I have put gauges on an automotive system but I'm thinking 25-30 lbs on the low pressure side and around 200+ lbs on the high pressure side (depends on the ambient air temp.)

As far as I'm concerned, the best indicator of being charged properly is feeling the suction side of the compressor. There is absolutely no doubt about when you have enough gas in the system - it will dramatically and rather quickly change to cold.

An A/C technician reading this would have a fit - but for the shade-tree mechanic it does work pretty well.

No reason not to charge it yourself.

Cheers,

John
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:09 AM   #6
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Don't worry John, you've given good advice!

I am an ASE Certified Master Auto Technician and fully trained in the proper service procedures for A/C systems. You are right on the money regarding your pressures.

The hot and cold quick check is certainly one of the easiest tests I do all the time. The blue cap is the suction or LOW side and the red cap is the for the HIGH side.

Ed, follow John's advice, it's accurate and simple. I would suspect you have a small leak somewhere in your system and it really should be fixed. That can be a daunting task though, finding a small leak in an R134a system. Often times the dyes used in the refrigerant don't show up at the leak point because the dye mixes with the PAG (Poly Alkyd Glycol - I think ) oil used in the system to help lubricate the compressor. If the leak is very small, refrigerant will escape, but not the oil. It takes a very patient tech. with a good leak detector to "sniff" out a small leak in one of these systems. One common area in an automobile is the evaporator core. This is the unit, typically inside the dash, that gets cold. Since alot of condensation results around and on the evap. core it can corrode over time. It's usually quite difficult to get to also. A leak detector placed in an outlet vent with the A/C cycling on and off and blower fan on LOW can usually detect refrigerant in the airstream. Also look at all the hoses, lines and fittings. I found several of my A/C hoses routed tightly against some sharp metal edges. I simply re-routed them and zip tied them away from the metal or covered them with some of that hard plastic flexible conduit that you see usually on wire harness bundles. You can also look for wet oily spots on your A/C components as this would indicate a leak point where oil and refrigerant is escaping.

I'd advise against any "DIY" recharge kits that claim to have a stop leak additive. Most manufacturers recommend against this and it can cause problems with professional's A/C recovery and recharging equipment not to mention your A/C system.

I have to admit that even my dash air seems inadequate on a hot summer day and I think Workhorse is aware of this since they are marketing an auxiliary condenser kit to improve dash air performance. I know I'll be checking my system before this summer to make sure there is a full charge and no leaks.
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:18 AM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Horsepowerfan:
Don't worry John, you've given good advice! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Jim, Thank you for contributing to this thread.
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:48 AM   #8
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Thanks John/Jim,
With all your inforamtion I'll check all the fittings etc.
The evaporator and valve was replaced last year there was a slight leak in one or the other so the Tech replaced them both without taking the nose off the coach. The only concern he had was the replacement parts from Workhouse (USA) were made in China!
Thanks for the great input. As soon as the rain clears down here in FL hopefully Monday I'll check it out!
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Old 03-28-2005, 02:36 PM   #9
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Well, I guess it's time to find a WH service center.
I bought a guage, checked all the fuses and connections all looked ok. Put the pressure guage on the low side and with the motor running and AC MAX it read 85 lbs. The compressor never came on. Its seems it might have air in the line or to much oil? something is bad wrong.
Any Ideas?
Glad we have Genset and House AC!
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Old 03-29-2005, 01:37 AM   #10
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Sounds electrical now. Check the connections to the clutch on the compressor and the dash control. If the clutch plate doesn't pull in when you turn the ac on you need to trace that circuit.

Paul
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Old 03-29-2005, 03:11 PM   #11
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Yep checked everthing I could see. Wiring connectors, dash switch all the plugs etc. I gave up and called for service we have an appointment this coming Monday at Turning wheel RV in Ocala, FL. about 40 miles from where we are in Bushnell. They said if we needed parts from WH and had to wait they have a CG right at the service center with hook-ups. We have our fingers crossed and hope it's not something major!
Thanks for all the ideas and feedback. It helps when your on the road!
Hope you have many great miles ahead!
Ed D
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Old 03-29-2005, 03:31 PM   #12
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Ed - there might be a high pressure cutout switch that has been tripped. There could be a bonafide reason that the compressor clutch is not being energized, or it could be just an anomaly or a transient problem. I forgot what kind of fusing or protection the compressor clutch usually has on an automotive system.

Maybe Jim will pop back in here with more wisdom. Hopefully the problem will be on the simple end of things.

John
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:59 PM   #13
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John,
Thanks for the comeback. I really don't know a lot about the AC System but when I did place a guage on the low side even without the compressor working a 85 lb reading was a little over the edge . I'll fill in the Tech at the repair facility with everything I checked and didn't check. Hopefully, like someone said today the system just might need purging and refilled. The service we had before on our AC System, the Tech said the machine was giving bad readings , so they just filled it up with 134 and sent us on our way. That could be
our problem. Especially if it wasn't done right to begin with..
We'll see Monday!
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:29 AM   #14
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I had my dash A/C start blowing hot air. The WH tech checked and found all the freon had escaped. He vacumed down the system and left it on overnight and the system held the vacum, so he re-charged the system and sent me on my way with a $150 bill, seems WH will not warranty A/C recharges if no leak is found. Several months later, same thing, only this time the WH tech found a leak at the compressor seal and all was replaced under WH warranty. I am now in process of writting WH for refund of the $150.

Best Regards!
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:33 PM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ed and Michele Retired/Full-time:
...when I did place a guage on the low side even without the compressor working a 85 lb reading was a little over the edge . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, Ed, 85psi STATIC charge is about right, maybe even a little low. By STATIC I mean with the compessor OFF. I too agree with ppeter313 that there is most likely an electrical problem now and not so much a low charge issue.

When the system is not operating, the pressures equalize between the HIGH and LOW sides. The static pressure, in psi, (as a rule of thumb) will be approximately equal to the ambient temperature in degrees F. It sounds to me like something is preventing the A/C compressor clutch from engaging. This could happen if the low pressure cutoff switch is unplugged or has failed. It's designed to shut off the compressor if the low side pressure drops too low in order to prevent compressor failure AND in a normally operating system to allow the compressor to cycle on and off to prevent the evaporator core from freezing up. As John mentioned, there may also be a high pressure cutoff switch also. There's usually an A/C relay which is controlled by the engine computer too. You getting all of this? Sorry I didn't realize how LONG WINDED I was getting. I really wish I could just transport myself to your location with my tools and take care of it for you.

Hopefully your service center will be able to get it taken care of quickly and efficiently. Sorry I didn't reply sooner.
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