9 out of 16 LED lightbulbs failed in 2015 38Q

[datrbone8]

Just in case you wanted to check these out RV - ITC-USA

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by arneinfloria

It is getting difficult to use our kitchen as we no longer have working overhead lights. In fact, more than half of our LED overhead lights no longer work. I could understand that one light would fail early, but it is hard to believe that 9 failures in two months is due to chance.

Did Winnebago buy a bad batch of lights? Anybody else have this problem? I assume that they will be replaced under warranty when we get to Forest City in August, in the mean time we will use temporary lights bought at Loves.

IMO you could call Winnebago service and give them a heads up on the failures. Lights are considered disposable and are not covered under warranty. If you wait too long they may not be overly prepared to cover them.

I think WGO service is splendid but giving them early warning will likely help with making a case for replacement.

[ImagineIF]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Here is a picture of what I found when I o-scoped my lights. I don't know if this could be causing the lights to fail in my situation.

I can't make out the voltage or time scales. The display appears to show nothing more than noise. FWIW, I suspect most chargers put out a pulsed square wave.

FWIW, I've had cheap G-4 LED replacements in my coach for 2 years without a single failure. That's 50 light fixtures without a replacement LED failure. I also have 20 cheap LED panels I've adapted for my outside light fixtures. Only one of them failed at that failure was 4 of 20 LEDs on one panel.

[The Clock Meister]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

IMO you could call Winnebago service and give them a heads up on the failures. Lights are considered disposable and are not covered under warranty. If you wait too long they may not be overly prepared to cover them.

I think WGO service is splendid but giving them early warning will likely help with making a case for replacement.

With conventional lights, you are correct.

These LED lights must be replace in their entirety, it is not just replacing a bulb. I (and probably others) wish it was that simple.

Chris

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by The Clock Meister

With conventional lights, you are correct.

These LED lights must be replace in their entirety, it is not just replacing a bulb. I (and probably others) wish it was that simple.

Chris

I agree but I read on a post somewhere that they had issues when they tried to get replacements. Not sure what brand coach but IMO better to give them notice that the lights are out. Be proactive.

[Bacoats]

Thank you for the steps for replacement. Camping world didnot get a response and took a half day to find out nothing. They could not replace all the lights because they go out quicker than they can get them in. We are headed out on a 5 month trip so we won't be back to get them fixed.
As for temperature...we live full time in our rv so we do t let it get hot inside.
I think the answer would be for the ones that are having trouble to all call the same rep and maybe on the same day. I am calling again next week and I will get the name of the rep. This rv is only 2 months old and we aren't going to give up. Back to you next week.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by ImagineIF

I can't make out the voltage or time scales. The display appears to show nothing more than noise. FWIW, I suspect most chargers put out a pulsed square wave.

FWIW, I've had cheap G-4 LED replacements in my coach for 2 years without a single failure. That's 50 light fixtures without a replacement LED failure. I also have 20 cheap LED panels I've adapted for my outside light fixtures. Only one of them failed at that failure was 4 of 20 LEDs on one panel.

I am thinking it is more RF from all the stuff that puts out signals in the coach. The scale is 50mv and 100ms sweep rate. I am planning to retest the circuit with the shore power off. Simply forgot to do this test the other day. Out of practice.

Where did you get your LEDs?

Rick Y

[jerichorick]

I did a retest of my lighting power. This AC wave is what is on top of my DC. This is a .1v scale at 5u sweep rate. I got the same results with the shore power on or off. I have no idea where this signal is coming from. I am going to call Magnum later today. I emailed them the picture yesterday. I am hoping they can help me isolate or resolve this. I still don't see how this signal would be enough to cause the LED's to over heat and fail.

Rick Y

PS: click on the picture to get a better view.

[John Hilley]

Maybe it is coming from the lights themselves, try measuring with lights off. Some of the firs LEDs I got put out a lot of noise on the TV.

[ImagineIF]

Your scope display doesn't appear alarming. It's likely from the battery charger. Disconnect all AC input sources and turn off your inverter, if you have one. The scope reading will likely improve.

Is it possible the LED fixtures are designed for 12V and unable to sustain 14 volts that would be likely during charging?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by ImagineIF

Your scope display doesn't appear alarming. It's likely from the battery charger. Disconnect all AC input sources and turn off your inverter, if you have one. The scope reading will likely improve.

Is it possible the LED fixtures are designed for 12V and unable to sustain 14 volts that would be likely during charging?

This o-scope picture is with the pedestal power off and the inverter off-- NO AC equipment running, batteries NOT charging.

Glenn at Magnum suggest I check my grounding.

I just had a thought. What if this noise is generated by the LED's? I am going to replace them with halogens and see what things look like. The LEDs are M4products Elite series. they are rated for 30VDC and 50,000 service hours. I am not close to stressing these specs.

But, what of the OP? What is up there?

Rick Y

[ImagineIF]

Okay Rick, try to isolate the source of that power irregularity. Turn off all DC systems as well. That should clean up the scope reading. You may have to remove the fuse between the inverter/charger and the batteries if the display doesn't clean up with all DC systems off. Then turn on the DC systems, one at a time, until the display returns.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by ImagineIF

Okay Rick, try to isolate the source of that power irregularity. Turn off all DC systems as well. That should clean up the scope reading. You may have to remove the fuse between the inverter/charger and the batteries if the display doesn't clean up with all DC systems off. Then turn on the DC systems, one at a time, until the display returns.

Thanks Gil. These things will take time to do. At the moment I am doing an inventory of what we have on board in order to loose what we never use or can live without. Our weight has becoming an issue of concern. When on the road full-time it is easy to build a surplus. I am installing peg board to carry some of my tools and loosing a heavy tool box for starters. All of this is my priority at the moment. I would have never know about the noise on my ceiling lights if it were not for the LED failures.

Magnum has made some suggestions like tie wrapping the battery cables together every 6" and checking all of my grounds. I need to do some in-depth ground cleaning and tightening first and then a retest. This won't be an easy task, especially with no cover to work under. You know how hard it is to see in these dark, black painted places in full sunlight. Being in WA a cloudy day is not far away and is perfect for this type of work. I'll keep you posted.

[dbaer70]

Dealer has replaced 5 so far in our Vista 30T. The one half out in the bathrooom was the worst! They seem very cheaply made.

[RLBCCB]

Originally Posted by dbaer70

Dealer has replaced 5 so far in our Vista 30T. The one half out in the bathrooom was the worst! They seem very cheaply made.

We have been full time in our 30T since April 2015, so the lights have been used daily for almost 4 months. So far we have not had any issues with our lights. Does anyone know approximately how many hours of burn time before this issue starts to show up or is it just a bad batch that some of us have in our coach?


Sent from my iPhone6 using iRV2 mobile
Robin, Carolyn and Maggie the Schnauzer - 2015 Winnebago Vista 30T, 2014 Smart Car Toad

[dbaer70]

In our case it was was very fast, like our third trip! Have barely over 2k on this rig.

[jerichorick]

For folks experiencing this issue, encourage your repair shop to put a o-scope on one of the light sockets. I am still thinking that M4products may have stumbled upon a diagnostics that will reveal a common problem that may be industry wide and will limit the use of today's LED's. Some one in manufacturing needs to work on this. I, for one, can't afford to replace all of my LED's again until I come up with a fix.

What is interesting is that the RVComfort.zc thermostat has issues with line noise and a choke filter is advised to correct the problem. Are these issues related??

Rick Y

[cb1000rider]

FYI - I have a 2015 Keystone with ITC 4.5 lights. We've had it out for 2 weeks and over 50% of these lights have failed. It looks like the SMDs are coming apart.

We've emailed ITC and so far we've had no response. Our purchasing dealer says they have none is stock, but they will work with us in terms of getting them to us.

However, I don't want to put the same LEDs back if they're going to fail again.

Part on the light is: 69240PPNS-15-3k
Temperature in the RV is in the 70s.

The product is: 4.5 Radiance Overhead LED Light, Screw Mount - ITC 69240NS-15-3K-D - LED Lighting - Camping World

They look like this (I've removed the cover):

[ImagineIF]

Hey Rick, the chances a typical RV repair shops knows what an oscilloscope is let alone use one is almost zero.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by ImagineIF

Hey Rick, the chances a typical RV repair shops knows what an oscilloscope is let alone use one is almost zero.

Typical is the operative word here. I never have had a repair accomplished correctly for a typical RV repair shop . You would need to get to a truck shop for this I believe. Or, if you know a good car mechanic he might have access to one.

Happy trails,

Rick Y.